Valley 2 Beta .723 "Clinical Study Of Laser Spiders" Released!

[x4000]

Original: http://arcengames.blogspot.com/2013/02/valley-2-beta-723-clinical-study-of.html

This one can't top the amazing prior release, but it's also a good one with a lot of varied cool stuff in there.  What's new:

Spell Stuff
There's a whole bunch of improvements to the physics and reliability of a number of the spells.  Mostly the pattern sort of attacks, like crosses and crescents and circles.  Also things with areas of effect like rockets.  Boy does it feel better now!

Robotic Research Facilities
Formerly Skelebot Research Facilities, these have gotten a complete overhaul, monsters-wise.  They now use a mix of both the abandoned town and future junkyard for monsters, leaving out some of the more specialized monsters (like the perimeter guards and C4 fliers) that really don't work well when you're trying to make a hasty retreat.  These should be a ton more fun (and possible) now.

Every Strategic Tile Has A Purpose
Since pretty much the start of beta, there have been some tiles that didn't have a strategic purpose, and that kept shifting as we kept retiring mechanics and adding new ones.  Now that all the core mechanics have settled down, all of the tiles have a purpose.

Clinic And Auto-Heal Changes
Clinics and healing in general have been reworked in light of the recent removal of the wound system:

The "all resistance members automatically gain 1 power at the end of each turn" rule now only happens for NPCs of the Soldier class (previously they were special by being resistant to wound-state, but that's gone now and this is their new special)

Clinics now add 1 power to all resistance members at the end of each turn (when worked, of course).  To compensate for this considerable increase in power, they now cost 100 scrap (abandoned town ones used to cost 50, and ice age ones already cost 100). Should be enough of a counterbalance between that, the "cost" of having to work them, and the overlord's ability to destroy them

Four New World Map Tile Types
Swamp Belltowers give you a useful new ability when you find them -- there are two on each map.  Abandoned Town Watchtowers can be constructed by you in order to slow the advancing troops.  Junkyard Industrial Towers can be captured when you find them and work like excellent factories -- there are three on each map.

On the monster side, we also have some new stuff.  Gates From The Deep are new threats that you'll have to deal with as soon as you get close to them.  There are six per map.  And Stratospheric Citadels now get some special protection from Demonaica which may prove... surprising.

Fine-Tuned World Map Generation
A lot of stuff about the world map generation has been subtly improved, and in general the balance of these will now skew less based on the random number generator.  But the shapes and general discovery still varies as much as before.

Unit Testing For Slices
I've finally implemented automated unit testing for slice design validity, and Josh has been using that to hone in on all the various problem slices and fix them.  Things like ceiling clingers placed on the floor for some reason, and stationary fliers placed right up against a wall so that they remain tiny, etc.

All in all Josh has put fixes in to 127 out of our 3015 current slices files in this release, and he reports that the unit tests are reporting 1100ish more issues that he's going to be looking at over the weekend.  When a file has something off with it there are usually multiple things off, so that 1100 issues does not represent 1100 files; and the 127 files represents at least twice that in issues, most likely.

Most of the issues that are there aren't really that severe, thankfully, but they do cause oddities like monsters walking in the air or appearing tiny against a wall or whatever, so it's stuff we're making sure to get cleaned up by 1.0.

Thirteen New Monsters
The total number of monsters in the game is now up to 78, and there are some more really good ones in this batch.  Surveillance Cameras and the Laser Spiders they spawn are perhaps my new favorite enemy in the game.  I still have another 44 monsters to go based on my current roster, though; I wound up adding 6 monsters to the spec over the course of this release, so the target currently stands at 122 rather than the previous 116 (or the original 114).

Funny how that keeps happening, but I may wind up trimming a few monsters to get back closer to 114 as the time nears, we'll see.  My intent is to get through the remainder of the monsters this weekend if it kills me; there's not going to be time to polish them all properly if I don't get that done, but I think that it is -- barely -- doable.  I've just kept getting sidetracked with improving other things that also needed attention, so it's put me pretty behind on the monsters.  It's all been for the better, but it just makes my schedule extra insane for a bit.

As usual, there's a lot of other minor improvements in here, across the board.  Definitely check out the release notes.

More to come soon.  Enjoy!

This is a standard update that you can download through the  in-game updater itself, if you already have any version of the game.  If you have the beta on Steam, it will automatically update for you.  When you  launch the game, you'll see the notice of the update having been found  if you're connected to the Internet at the time.  If you don't have the standalone game, you can download that here.  If you already own the first game, just use your existing license key to unlock the sequel for free!

[Aklyon]

The players are now effectively immune to knockback, because getting knocked around just isn't terribly fun. And leads to glitches.

Aw, I liked being able to jump into the sky with just a monster and good bad aim 

This should help in caves nicely.

[Misery]

Ooh, this looks like another really good update.   I absolutely love the idea of more special tiles that DO stuff.  Having that many more options available to the player is never a bad thing.   I think that's one of the biggest strengths of this game, is that there are so many different options and approaches available to the player at any given time.

Looks like I'll be making another new map for this one.  Feedback will come later!

[Professor Paul1290]

Just noticed a minor issue, it seems that the game looks for the song "RobotHackingEscape" instead of "SkelebotHackingEscape" and it ends up missing because the song hasn't gotten renamed.


I've been having some platforming related concerns/issues lately as well. When I did a recent escape there seemed to be slices where I was supposed to jump on top of an enemy to get past, and there did seem to always be a wall enemy, tower-shaped enemy, or some other similar enemy there I could jump on to get to a higher platform and that would be the only way up. It worked out just fine, but is that intentional?

I've also run into the following segment on my way to Level 2 mage classes after starting a new world:
http://i.imgur.com/tmWZfR8.png
There are several jumps like that and they were doable, but that second jump doesn't look like it's doable that early, at least not after five attempts. That might be a problem unless it's intended that the player might have to put off getting Level 2 mage classes until double jump is acquired.

[Misery]

The one big issue I ran into pretty fast:


Robot facilities....  very, very broken.  To be honest, I just dont think the spawn mechanic in these works at all.  It's *very* easy to get into unbeatable situations, such as if your way is blocked by an enemy that could be very easy.... but takes some time to get rid of.  Fast escape does not work with slow & careful combat all that well, at least, not when more enemies are spawning right next to you.   The slightest error just ERASES you here..... and you're even more screwed if you didn't back up the save before attempting the facility, because all of those spawned things will still be there.  Quite a number of the different enemy types in here are not the sort that you can just flatten quickly.... the game doesnt really have all that many of that kind, to be honest.   

This is on hero difficulty, but frankly, I think these are likely just as broken on the default.   You pretty much HAVE to get lucky with the RNG, in terms of the chosen slices and where it places which types of enemies, to have a chance at getting out of here.   The only solution I can see is to just switch to Featherweight and just go through the place to get it out of the way.



Other than that.... no major issues with this patch.   There's still a bizarre effect with aiming on hills that can not only cause you to slide at times, but can also alter the height of your shots.   The world map seems much less covered in tiny houses, so that's good.   The strategy stuff seems a bit better balanced than it was before.

[madcow]

Good stuff, I've gotten a good bit of playtime in, since the previous patch - really liking the direction of things. I found a couple bugs with spells, which I mantised.

One issue I came on is with the miniaturize feat. It makes it much easier to dodge bullets, and I found no reason not to just stay miniaturized the whole time. It seems like being miniaturized should increase your damage taken as a risk/reward type thing. Easier to dodge, but you take more damage when you do. Alternatively it could lower the damage you deal.

Oh and Chris, after more attempts at C-4 fliers, they don't really have the inertia that you can shoot them if you dodge their first pass. They won't still be going fast enough that you can deal any damage. You either have to run several screens-width away after dodging or just ignore them. I've just started ignoring them myself.

Because Misery posted while I was, I'll just add a PS about robot facilities - despawn enemies when you die, those shortcuts are useless when all the enemies that came out while chasing you are still there.

Edit: I was playing on a world from version 0.722, so maybe the world changes in 0.723 fixed this. But given how important clinics are to build now, there's not a lot of options in terms of where to put them. Would it be possible to get one more biome to build clinics on? Grassland or desert maybe.

Few other strategic ideas: another potential tile is a sort of "mini-clinic" that gives a +1 power, but only to the resistance member working it. Obviously it would need a better name

Also, it would be nice if we could see Demonica's spell strength or something. Not sure how the spell logic is handled, so it might just end up confusing, but it feels like if we open up the region menu in a spot where Demonica (and to a lesser degree monsters) is standing we should get -some- info about him, similar to how we do with resistance members.

Double edit: There's an equipment modifier whose name I can't remember, but it gave me like -100% spell life and turned everything into touch spells basically. That uhh, could likely use some toning down.

[Misery]

Good stuff, I've gotten a good bit of playtime in, since the previous patch - really liking the direction of things. I found a couple bugs with spells, which I mantised.

One issue I came on is with the miniaturize feat. It makes it much easier to dodge bullets, and I found no reason not to just stay miniaturized the whole time. It seems like being miniaturized should increase your damage taken as a risk/reward type thing. Easier to dodge, but you take more damage when you do. Alternatively it could lower the damage you deal.

Oh and Chris, after more attempts at C-4 fliers, they don't really have the inertia that you can shoot them if you dodge their first pass. They won't still be going fast enough that you can deal any damage. You either have to run several screens-width away after dodging or just ignore them. I've just started ignoring them myself.

Because Misery posted while I was, I'll just add a PS about robot facilities - despawn enemies when you die, those shortcuts are useless when all the enemies that came out while chasing you are still there.

Edit: I was playing on a world from version 0.722, so maybe the world changes in 0.723 fixed this. But given how important clinics are to build now, there's not a lot of options in terms of where to put them. Would it be possible to get one more biome to build clinics on? Grassland or desert maybe.

Few other strategic ideas: another potential tile is a sort of "mini-clinic" that gives a +1 power, but only to the resistance member working it. Obviously it would need a better name

Also, it would be nice if we could see Demonica's spell strength or something. Not sure how the spell logic is handled, so it might just end up confusing, but it feels like if we open up the region menu in a spot where Demonica (and to a lesser degree monsters) is standing we should get -some- info about him, similar to how we do with resistance members.

Double edit: There's an equipment modifier whose name I can't remember, but it gave me like -100% spell life and turned everything into touch spells basically. That uhh, could likely use some toning down.

I can agree on the bit about the clinics.

Adding in more possible places to have them built in would be a good idea at this point, and this would be balanced out by the simple fact of them being expensive.  Due to that, you gotta be REALLY careful with their placement so you get max use out of them.

I like the changes to the clinics in general though.... muuuuuch better than what they were before.


Here's a question:  Is there like, a set amount of damage that survivors take, if they fail their cover roll?  Or is it a little random, or something else?  Giving the player a general idea as to how much damage can be done by that would be a helpful thing.   Overall though, the new damage system instead of wounds, plus the new clinics, plus the whole "survivor danger level" mechanic, I think these things all work together extremely well.   

I'm guessing that there will be some players that might complain about the randomness inherant in the cover roll bit with that, but I think assessing the risk of different areas and wether or not you should move into them based on that is a very good part of the strategy, as is taking various actions to reduce that risk.   So far, it's all worked very, very well, at least in my opinion.

[x4000]

Will respond to more things later, but am running a mile a minute today trying to get 22 monsters done in one day.

Wanted to let you know, though:

* Made it so that clinics can now be built in the rubble of junkyard robotic towers and the rubble of thawing towers.
** This gives players more options on where to put their all-important clinics, but it isn't too easy because typically those towers are in really dangerous places that have to be cleared out first.  Still, more options than before.

[x4000]

I've also run into the following segment on my way to Level 2 mage classes after starting a new world:
http://i.imgur.com/tmWZfR8.png
There are several jumps like that and they were doable, but that second jump doesn't look like it's doable that early, at least not after five attempts. That might be a problem unless it's intended that the player might have to put off getting Level 2 mage classes until double jump is acquired.

Can you post the world file with you in there?  Those jumps are indeed too hard, and we can tone them down, but we need to figure out what the slices in question actually are.  Thanks!

[MouldyK]

Love how the game feels...except that Multiplayer is almost unplayable a lot of the time.

Do you have any timeline on when you will start looking at the issues in Multiplayer, such as invincibility, getting chucked out chunks back to the world map and being frozen on the spot and also homing spells?

[x4000]

Keith is going to start looking at MP more on Monday, most likely.  I know it's pretty broken, but thankfully the number of issues is at least relatively small.  They're just really hard to chase down individually, and affect a lot of things.  I'll also be starting to look at some of those on Tuesday or so, likely.

[Misery]

Will respond to more things later, but am running a mile a minute today trying to get 22 monsters done in one day.

Wanted to let you know, though:

* Made it so that clinics can now be built in the rubble of junkyard robotic towers and the rubble of thawing towers.
** This gives players more options on where to put their all-important clinics, but it isn't too easy because typically those towers are in really dangerous places that have to be cleared out first.  Still, more options than before.

That actually sounds like a really good idea.  Gives more reasons to take them out rather than just totally avoiding all of them most of the time.  Not to mention a definite risk-reward thing going there.   A better idea than just sticking them into additional biomes, I think.

[MouldyK]

Keith is going to start looking at MP more on Monday, most likely.  I know it's pretty broken, but thankfully the number of issues is at least relatively small.  They're just really hard to chase down individually, and affect a lot of things.  I'll also be starting to look at some of those on Tuesday or so, likely.

Great to hear! Yes, the issues are small in number, but high in annoyance. Hopefully it is fixed quickly so I can enjoy the game again.

[keith.lamothe]

Here's a question:  Is there like, a set amount of damage that survivors take, if they fail their cover roll?  Or is it a little random, or something else?

I think the answer is "something else"   Basically it rolls a d100 against the danger percent, and if the roll is <= that percent it does one point of damage, subtracts 5 from the percent, and rolls again.  If any roll is > the percent it stops.

So 10% danger has a 10% chance of doing 1 damage, a 0.95% chance of doing 2 damage, a 0.0855% chance of doing 3 damage, and so on (I may have messed up the math there, but you get the idea).  But a 95% danger has a chance of... really ruining your NPCs day.

I'm guessing that there will be some players that might complain about the randomness inherant in the cover roll bit with that, but I think assessing the risk of different areas and wether or not you should move into them based on that is a very good part of the strategy, as is taking various actions to reduce that risk.

Yea, with the threat from the overlord and the overlord's summoned world-map-monsters and region debuffs (firestorm, meteor shower, etc) it's all very non-random (at least in damage computations, the targeting AI is a bit fuzzy so as to not be too predictable).  Those threats are also fairly easy to know where they are and to avoid or get out of the way, but they're very difficult to just stop altogether. But the "wild monster" threat that cover rolls represent is pervasive and fairly randomized, but you can effectively shut it down fairly easily by just keeping your NPCs in safe areas (10% danger or whatever isn't likely to kill anyone, and 0% danger is quite attainable).

I think have both kinds of threat present is a good thing   If cover were changed to "this square does X damage to an NPC in it at the end of each turn" that would be ok, but I don't think it would be an improvement on the current model.

[goodgimp]

Working on a Saturday, I see. Good luck guys!

(Sorry, I know this isn't contributing anything useful to the thread, but I think you all should be called out and thanked for your hard work every now and then)