Requesting multiplayer feedback

[tigersfan]

There may possibly be a lag related issue with miasma whip not disappearing until after it's gone a way. I noticed that it's range is ridiculous on Toll's server only. And as Toll's server, a localhost server, and single player is the only places I play, it's probably lag related.

Just to confirm: we are able to duplicate this internally, and we're also able to get the invisible enemies thing, too.

We've got a new testing mode that lets us simulate absolute horrendous lag internally, and so we're working through testing under those conditions and cleaning up everything we can with it.  Thanks!

Horrendous being the operative word there.

[x4000]

Yeah, "way worse than most likely real-life situations" is what I was going for there.

[Oralordos]

Yeah, "way worse than most likely real-life situations" is what I was going for there.

Oh I don't know, I've had some bad experiences playing Warcraft 3 with people in New Zealand.

[tigersfan]

Yeah, "way worse than most likely real-life situations" is what I was going for there.

Oh I don't know, I've had some bad experiences playing Warcraft 3 with people in New Zealand.

Well, he did say "most" but really, it's pretty bad. If I logged onto a server that was actually running this poorly, I'd just log out. I couldn't imagine actually playing any game like this.

[BobTheJanitor]

Yeah, "way worse than most likely real-life situations" is what I was going for there.

AVWW confirmed to be playable on a 2400 baud modem, you heard it here first!

[x4000]

Yeah, "way worse than most likely real-life situations" is what I was going for there.

Oh I don't know, I've had some bad experiences playing Warcraft 3 with people in New Zealand.

Well, he did say "most" but really, it's pretty bad. If I logged onto a server that was actually running this poorly, I'd just log out. I couldn't imagine actually playing any game like this.

I had similar conditions to this when playing Mario Kart DS with people in Japan, while I was on Wifi.  That's literally the sort of lag conditions I'm seeing this as simulating.  I wound up just not playing with people from Japan in Mario Kart DS after a few such rounds, which I suspect is what someone would do with a server with this sort of lag from their location, too.  Sometimes the geography of a particular match-up just isn't going to work out with the current version of the Internet.  Maybe in a few years.

[silverhound]

That's really weird... can you test this again with a spell that costs both tier orbs and something else (like welkin gel or whatever) and for each ingredient give me:

- how many were available to you before the craft
- how many were available to you after the craft
- how many were available to a different player before the craft
- how many were available to a different player after the craft

Assuming neither of you crafts anything else during that time.

That will help figure out what's going on; I suspect something odd about tier orbs that's not happening with the other crafting ingredients, but can't be sure.

did this by myself but with multiple chars (has the same results as with multiple players so far i noticed)

char 1:
before craft of fire touch 2 for char 1:
8 rubies
7 tier #2 orbs
2 iron ores

after craft of fire touch 2 for char 1 (but before craft of fire touch 2 for char 2) :
7 rubies
6 tier #2 orbs
1 iron ore

after craft of fire touch 2 for char 1 and 2:
7 rubies
5 tier #2 orbs
1 iron ore

char 2:
before craft of fire touch 2 for char 2 (but after craft of fire touch 2 for char 1) :
13 rubies
6 tier #2 orbs
2 iron ores

after craft of fire touch 2 for char 2:
12 rubies
5 tier #2 orbs
1 iron ore

[keith.lamothe]

That's really weird... can you test this again with a spell that costs both tier orbs and something else (like welkin gel or whatever) and for each ingredient give me:

- how many were available to you before the craft
- how many were available to you after the craft
- how many were available to a different player before the craft
- how many were available to a different player after the craft

Assuming neither of you crafts anything else during that time.

That will help figure out what's going on; I suspect something odd about tier orbs that's not happening with the other crafting ingredients, but can't be sure.

did this by myself but with multiple chars (has the same results as with multiple players so far i noticed)

char 1:
before craft of fire touch 2 for char 1:
8 rubies
7 tier #2 orbs
2 iron ores

after craft of fire touch 2 for char 1 (but before craft of fire touch 2 for char 2) :
7 rubies
6 tier #2 orbs
1 iron ore

after craft of fire touch 2 for char 1 and 2:
7 rubies
5 tier #2 orbs
1 iron ore

char 2:
before craft of fire touch 2 for char 2 (but after craft of fire touch 2 for char 1) :
13 rubies
6 tier #2 orbs
2 iron ores

after craft of fire touch 2 for char 2:
12 rubies
5 tier #2 orbs
1 iron ore

I think that answers it!  Thanks, I'll add something to make sure tier orbs get the same each-person-gets-to-use-this-once treatment as the other crafting ingredients

[TechSY730]

There may possibly be a lag related issue with miasma whip not disappearing until after it's gone a way. I noticed that it's range is ridiculous on Toll's server only. And as Toll's server, a localhost server, and single player is the only places I play, it's probably lag related.

Just to confirm: we are able to duplicate this internally, and we're also able to get the invisible enemies thing, too.

We've got a new testing mode that lets us simulate absolute horrendous lag internally, and so we're working through testing under those conditions and cleaning up everything we can with it.  Thanks!

How did you pull that off? A flag, that when set, will cause the client to delay every packet sent by a longish time, and the server, when it receives a packet, to wait a longish time before handling it? (Possibly a slight bit of randomization on both timings)

Please make sure to never publish a beta with that flag on.

[Toll]

Personally, I'd go for the proxy approach; connect the client to a proxy, and have that proxy delay all packages in and out a certain amount of milliseconds. No flags required, no risk of accidentally shipping it with built-in lag!

[x4000]

It shows a giant message in the corner that says that it's on when it's on, so it's super unlikely we'd ever ship a build with it on.  And everyone who loaded the game would see the message immediately and yell at us, rather than wondering why lag was so bad.

In terms of how we pulled it off: it's supported by the underlying lidgren network library, so we just had to turn it on.  No coding wizardry on our part, it was already there.

[BobTheJanitor]

I've finally tried out MP, and I am immediately confused. What is my intended power progression here? On the server, there is a continent that is T4 and two more that are T5. I appear to only have access to T1 spells. And of course I only start with a handful of upgrade stones, so I am especially weak, and I don't really have the power to go hunt down more without dying a lot to high tier monsters. Is this perhaps an artifact of the Tier orbs being used up bug that was mentioned earlier? I assume normally I'd be able to craft my way up the ladder?

Edit: Also, another player crafting and dropping a high tier spell will still only give me tier 1 of the spell when I pick it up.

Edit2: Yeah I think I have to give up on trying to do anything with MP right now. My current options appear to be running around in the settlement, or dying.

[keith.lamothe]

I've finally tried out MP, and I am immediately confused. What is my intended power progression here? On the server, there is a continent that is T4 and two more that are T5. I appear to only have access to T1 spells. And of course I only start with a handful of upgrade stones, so I am especially weak, and I don't really have the power to go hunt down more without dying a lot to high tier monsters. Is this perhaps an artifact of the Tier orbs being used up bug that was mentioned earlier? I assume normally I'd be able to craft my way up the ladder?

Edit: Also, another player crafting and dropping a high tier spell will still only give me tier 1 of the spell when I pick it up.

Edit2: Yeah I think I have to give up on trying to do anything with MP right now. My current options appear to be running around in the settlement, or dying.

The crafting menu should let you craft with everything the players have collected thus far (even if they spent it for "them").  There was a bug that for tier orbs, though, so the stockpile of those may be depleted.

[Toll]

Sounds they're about to kill the Overlord, so you should soon get a fresh continent with shiny new tier orbs. Might be more fun then!

"Soon" being in an hour or so.

[Toll]

... Or... just a few minutes. The Overlord Is Dead! Long Live The Overlord!