Author Topic: Like the new controls, however...  (Read 1837 times)

Offline Boonshniggle

  • Newbie Mark II
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Like the new controls, however...
« on: January 04, 2013, 04:25:10 pm »
The enemies having full 360 degree aiming makes things feel akward. If the enemies also only shot up/down/left/right, I think the gameplay would feel a lot better.

Also, now that we can't shoot diagonally, there being so many slanted surfaces kinda gets annoying after a while...really annoying. There's a reason there aren't many slanted surfaces in metroid or castlevania games.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2013, 04:27:33 pm by Boonshniggle »

Offline tigersfan

  • Arcen Games Contractor
  • Arcen Staff
  • Master Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,599
Re: Like the new controls, however...
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2013, 04:28:11 pm »
I'm not saying that there isn't room for improvement in the enemies, there certainly is. But, wouldn't restricting them that much make the game too easy? The enemies that shoot don't have the same movement abilities that the player does, so they'd have a really hard time hitting the player if they could only shoot in 4 directions.

Offline madcow

  • Hero Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,153
Re: Like the new controls, however...
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2013, 06:48:34 pm »
I don't think all enemies should be restricted to the four movements, but I definitely wouldn't like to see them all being 360 degrees either. A good mix is healthy!

Offline Boonshniggle

  • Newbie Mark II
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: Like the new controls, however...
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2013, 08:08:18 pm »
Well on higher difficulties like I play (skilled usually, sometimes heroic) the amount of spam when there is a decent amount of enemies on screen is kinda ridiculous.

I understand that you have the caliber dynamic...but some classes have pretty low caliber and even if there are a lot of ranged attacks coming your way, being able to dodge and such should still be viable.

I haven't played adept or lower really much, but in skilled+ diff I am forced to use high caliber classes when they aren't my favorites just because dodging so many times is impossible.

Maybe on higher difficulties projectile speed and fire rate shouldn't be increased and just the damage?

Offline Misery

  • Arcen Volunteer
  • Core Member Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,109
Re: Like the new controls, however...
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2013, 08:37:02 pm »
The OP has a point here about the slanty bits..

I havent had a chance to test any of this yet.... I'll do some of that later tonight.... but my first thoughts upon seeing the control change was:  This is going to massively debalance everything.

The biggest problem is that this is going to make hitting things *much* harder, or at least that's how it seems to me.  With the whole caliber thing and all.  One of the reasons why the caliber thing worked in the first place is because you had those angles to get around enemy shots, and for some of the stranger spells, the angled aiming kinda let you "tweak" things a bit to make them hit better.   Like that super-long range fire shot spell that is tossed in an arc;  I forget the name of it, but it almost *needed* to be fired at angles almost all the time to be useful (when I used it, anyway).   I used that spell alot, but if I fired it full-on straight, it never ever hit a darned thing.   

As with that, some spells probably just became completely useless.   I can think of more than a couple spells like that that only ever hit anything if they were aimed either at an angle, or straight up; there was no point in firing certain spells straight forward, because they *would* miss or screw up somehow. 

I'm thinking a number of spell classes are going to need to be completely re-designed here.   Particularly on more aggressive difficulties.  Like dealing with those squid things that fire the blue shots;  simply firing at them straight on is almost always futile, I've always had to fire at an angle.... or happen to be using a snake spell.... in order to even hit them once.  And no way was jumping over them and firing straight down going to work.


This also makes terrain an issue as well.   Again, alot of that seemed to work BECAUSE the player had those options for aiming.  Particularly in caves and buildings, there will now likely be many situations where you *cannot* hit an enemy unless you just happen to have something like a snake spell or whatever, because you simply cant get either horizontally or vertically aligned with them and still strike them.  Heck, those snake spells probably just became extremely OP, or at least extremely necessary over nearly any other sort of spell, since they're now pretty much one of the only things capable of striking things at a low angle, which is very often necessary in this game.



I'll be interested to see what this does to the game's difficulty level.   Previously, when I last played "Skilled" was becoming way too easy for me;  I could dodge most things just fine and crash through many areas much too fast.  This might change that, though wether or not it's a GOOD sort of change, I dunno yet.    Frankly the whole idea doesnt sound like a very good one to me, but again, I'll need to really have a go at it to formulate an opinion.

Offline Professor Paul1290

  • Sr. Member Mark II
  • ****
  • Posts: 395
Re: Like the new controls, however...
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2013, 08:47:12 pm »
I wonder how jarring it would be if the slanted areas were turned into steps. That might look a bit too blocky though.

Offline Misery

  • Arcen Volunteer
  • Core Member Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,109
Re: Like the new controls, however...
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2013, 08:54:20 pm »
I wonder how jarring it would be if the slanted areas were turned into steps. That might look a bit too blocky though.


Aye, and it still wouldnt stop the fact that those areas would still, in essence, be angled.  You still would not be able to get a straight-shot spell through some of them at all.   Making them more irritating to traverse by removing the slanted blocks would likely not help too much :P


Offline madcow

  • Hero Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,153
Re: Like the new controls, however...
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2013, 09:03:04 pm »
I've played some games where if you were walking up/down a ramp it would automatically angle shots along the ramp. I'm not sure if that's a possibility here (or if it's desired - I've not really an opinion one way or another, just tossing it out there).

I haven't had a chance to play since angled shots were removed. Though I didn't use them a whole lot even when they were there to be honest.