Author Topic: Question about Level 39  (Read 3606 times)

Offline eRe4s3r

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Question about Level 39
« on: July 18, 2010, 04:13:04 AM »
What does

To Win: 0 of 3 Combos of >= 3 Chains mean exactly? Might be a simple translation problem for me (not native English ;p) But i don't understand how i can combo 3 chains without going 3 combos deep - .. ehm yeah...  ???
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Offline Fiskbit

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Re: Question about Level 39
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2010, 04:25:43 AM »
This seems to have caused a lot of confusion with a lot of people. Perhaps the level needs some descriptor text in a future version.

Basically, a chain that is started by another chain clearing is 1 level deeper than that earlier chain. But it doesn't have to be entirely linear; one chain can start many others, which are ALL just 1 level deeper. If the first chain (which is just 1 level deep) starts 5 chains, those are all 2 levels deep. If any of those start another chain, those are 3 levels deep, and so on.

This is really just a tree structure. What you want is this:

  A
 / \
B   C


What you don't want is this:

  A
   \
    B
     \
      C
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Offline eRe4s3r

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Re: Question about Level 39
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2010, 04:35:13 AM »
Ahhh! So i have to start multiple chains (3) with my FIRST chain and not go deeper than that

Thank you ;P
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Offline Fiskbit

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Re: Question about Level 39
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2010, 04:46:13 AM »
Well, you only need to start 2 with your first chain, making a total of 3 in the combo. But yes, you've the right idea. :) There are objectives for how deep a combo gets, the total number of chains in a combo, and the total number of blocks in a combo.
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Offline KingIsaacLinksr

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Re: Question about Level 39
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2010, 05:06:52 PM »
Oh I should have asked this so long ago.  I got stuck on this level, it was confusing as heck.  That is a much better description :P

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Offline Somenetguy

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Re: Question about Level 39
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2010, 04:50:30 PM »
Even after reading the above I don't really understans level 39,   Stuck on this level.

**Eventually cleared it, only by luck though and still none the wiser as how it should be done.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2010, 05:29:34 PM by Somenetguy »

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Question about Level 39
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2010, 06:40:05 PM »
Lars, yea, we got a number of confused players on this one even during development; I would have kept mentioning it but thought that some description had been added or something.

I would suggest some level description text and an advanced tutorial covering the concept of combo depth (I thought there already was one, but ah well), which could be mentioned in that level description text.
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Offline Fiskbit

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Re: Question about Level 39
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2010, 11:59:45 PM »
Keith: I'm not sure an advanced tutorial makes sense for this topic, and I don't think I'd really call it advanced. It also only really applies when you have this specific distinction in the objectives, which is really special casey; players are likely to only need to use it in this one place, unlike all of the other tactics in the tutorials. I think it's a good candidate for some text in the level, though.

Somenetguy: Basically, if chain A causes chain B to happen, then chain B is one level deeper than chain A. You need a combo that has 3 chains in it but isn't 3 deep, so you can't have chain A cause chain B, which then causes chain C, since that would be 3 levels deep (A is 1 level deep, B is 2 levels deep, and C is 3 levels deep). You need A to directly cause both B and C so that they're both just 2 levels deep. The key idea here is that the number of chains in a combo and the depth of that combo are entirely separate; depth is the distance of a chain from the start of the combo in chains, while the number of chains is more the size of the combo. When you clear a chain and it says something like x5, that means that chain is 5 levels deep in the combo, but the combo itself may have had more than 5 chains in it.

What you want to do is have it so that when your first chain clears, it drops 2 blocks that each start a chain. Just make sure that neither of those start another chain and you'll meet the win objective without hitting the lose objective.

I hope that helps, but if you still don't understand, please ask a specific question so I can try to clear up your confusion.
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Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Question about Level 39
« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2010, 10:47:34 AM »
Yea, not really advanced, it just didn't seem to fit into the basic, though perhaps that would help since they're all prompted pretty clearly to go through the basic ones.  Anyway, however you think is best is fine, but I think the use of a "visual aid" is the most likely to really connect things in people's minds (see attached), as the text descriptions seem to leave some portion of people still unclear as to what exactly is going on.
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Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Question about Level 39
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2010, 10:51:07 AM »
Also, while I think you're right that there's only the one level where this distinction directly makes the difference between winning and losing, the impact of combo depth vs combo-chain-count on scoring is pretty big (at least, last time I checked), so it may be worth covering from that angle.
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Offline regnared

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Re: Question about Level 39
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2010, 12:01:04 PM »
Wow Keith! That made me understand better the meaning. Haha!

Visual did help there. :)
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Offline Somenetguy

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Re: Question about Level 39
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2010, 02:54:25 PM »
Thanks for the info, I tried the level you posted above and tbh I don't see the difference between clearing the left hand blocks and clearing the right hand blocks, execpt the 2 vertical blocks on the left are removed in one go after clicking the bottom one, whereas the right hand side block take 2 goes(1 click) to drop down.

Clearly the level causes too much confunsion imo. It just seems so out of place compared to the other levels, it takes the fun part of the game away when it becomes frustrating.  I don't mind hard puzzles if I know what I'm supposed to do or can kind of work out how to do it, this level was neither fun or clear.  I don't think it has any need to be in adventure mode, is there anything really gained from learning this level?  I mean in other levels we learn how to score better, what different blocks do etc, this puzzles seems to add nothing that may help.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2010, 03:54:39 PM by Somenetguy »

Offline eRe4s3r

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Re: Question about Level 39
« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2010, 03:10:11 PM »
Its actually pretty easy once you realize that with the first click you have to start 2 new chains AT THE SAME TIME. The right also starts 2 chains but not at the same time.

That level is a puzzle like all the others - and this is by far not the hardest puzzle in the adventure ;) I think you will love puzzle 75 - The Roman Candle ;)
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Offline Somenetguy

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Re: Question about Level 39
« Reply #13 on: July 22, 2010, 04:06:53 PM »


That level is a puzzle like all the others - and this is by far not the hardest puzzle in the adventure ;) I think you will love puzzle 75 - The Roman Candle ;)

Well I don't agree, fine put it in the brainteaser section but it shouldn't really be in adventure mode.  The purpose of adventure mode in a lot of games is that each level shows off the different features of the game for each level, is level 39 showing a special feature, I don't think so.

Anyway glad to see the back of that level, currently on 52.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Question about Level 39
« Reply #14 on: July 22, 2010, 04:16:45 PM »
It's not really that hard :)  The difference between "a combo of 3 chains and 2 depth" and "a combo of 3 chains and 3 depth" is the difference between "having two children" and "having one child and one grandchild".
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