Author Topic: Science goons - what happened?  (Read 1746 times)

Offline DeadlyGrim

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Science goons - what happened?
« on: May 26, 2014, 06:48:32 pm »
I haven't played The Last Federation for a bit, but were science goons changed? They don't seem to get science multipliers anymore. They only save 1 month per goon while the description implies that it's more than that with tech. Is this a bug?

Offline I-KP

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Re: Science goons - what happened?
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2014, 06:45:55 am »
IIRC the Science goon impact got multiplied by your Science rating, which was indeed unintended and was patched out.  Given how slow Credit was earned I quite liked how the goons improved.  Ah well.
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Offline DeadlyGrim

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Re: Science goons - what happened?
« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2014, 07:13:56 pm »
In that case, what's the point of increasing your science rating? (Besides just having a tech you can gift)

Offline Histidine

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Re: Science goons - what happened?
« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2014, 07:25:18 pm »
In that case, what's the point of increasing your science rating? (Besides just having a tech you can gift)
The research times required for projects decrease significantly.

Previously, with times taken getting shorter AND each scientist shaving off more time, scientists became a relatively cheap insta-research button late game.

Offline ptarth

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Re: Science goons - what happened?
« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2014, 07:48:21 pm »
This might be a problem with the gui feedback actually, and that scientists are actually scaling.
Here is a pretend example that illustrates the point. Let's say that you want to research the technology Space Elevators. Let's further conjecture that it costs 10,000 science, and your basic science rate is 1000 per month.

Situation 1.
No science bonuses, rate is 1000/month.
It will take you 100 months. Each scientist would contribute 1000 (i.e., 1 month worth of research).

Situation 2.
200% science bonus, rate is 2000/month.
It will now take you 50 months. Each scientist still contributes 1 month, but this time it is actually 2000 points of research.
Note: This post contains content that is meant to be whimsical. Any belittlement or trivialization of complex issues is only intended to lighten the mood and does not reflect upon the merit of those positions.

Offline DeadlyGrim

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Re: Science goons - what happened?
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2014, 04:37:57 pm »
Okay, that makes sense. I thought that I had checked before/after increasing science multiplier but apparently I missed it.

Offline Drak

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Re: Science goons - what happened?
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2014, 07:18:06 pm »
It's actually a simplification of the GUI in alot of ways. As Ptarth pointed out, if you look at it from the point of view of the "research Points" being generated, the scientists are still scaled with your science power. Its just in a cleaner fassion, since the game doesn't display research projects as "research points" needed and accumulated, but rather as months needed, having scientists take one month off the EFFECTIVE time needed (which is what's displayed in the dispatches) makes it easier to calculate how many scientists you need to buy to bring the projhect down to the number of actual months you need to spend.

Example: A project that has a base time requirement of 100 months. If you have no science multiplier (or rather a multiplier of 100% base time), then the project tkaes 100 months, or 100 goons to complete (or some combination of the two equalling 100). This is easy.

Now, let's assume you have a science multiplier of 2 (meaning each month you spend researching is worth 2 "base" months). Then you can complete the project in 50 months, or 50 goons (each with a value of 2 months), or any combination of the two equalling 50.

Here's where the simplification of the GUI comes in though.

One way to display the information would be to say "takes 100 man-months", then say "Each month spent by the Hydral is worth 2 man-months", and "Each goon spent is worth 2 man-months". Now you can do the math yourself and see that 100/2=50, so (Hydral Months+Number of Goons-or "Goon Months") must equal 50.

OR

The super good at math computer can do the math for you and just say "takes a total of 50 months" and then you just figure out how many of those you want to be goon months, and how many are Hydral months.  :)  Much simpler.  :) So that's the change that was made.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2014, 07:22:16 pm by Drak »

Offline windgen

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Re: Science goons - what happened?
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2014, 06:23:06 pm »
The super good at math computer can do the math for you and just say "takes a total of 50 months" and then you just figure out how many of those you want to be goon months, and how many are Hydral months.  :)  Much simpler.  :) So that's the change that was made.

I realized I've spent far too much time on Reddit recently when I couldn't find the button to upvote this...

Offline Mánagarmr

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Re: Science goons - what happened?
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2014, 07:51:05 pm »
Every bloody time I see this topic pop up on the "recent unread posts" lists, I hear this echoing in my mind:


"The hull has been breached and the science is LEAKING OUT!"

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Offline PokerChen

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Re: Science goons - what happened?
« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2014, 12:50:55 pm »
Space hydrals and zo-ombies~

Offline ptarth

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Re: Science goons - what happened?
« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2014, 01:40:29 pm »
I don't think the level of abstraction helps. I'd like it to see something like the following:

Name: IceCream - Waffle Cones
Type: Industrial
Effect: Allows the Race to produce Waffle Cones resulting in a +0.5 Industry RCI increase per month.
Cost (Progress): 15000 (1000)
Race Research Rate: 2000 per month
Hydra Research  Rate: 1000 per month
Scientist Research Rate: 1000 per scientist (11 scientists currently Available)
Expected Development Time: 1 months

Sure, a lot of that information is redundant. Really only the last line is the important bit. But I feel that this sort of feedback gives me a better awareness of how things are working. I can also SEE when changes occur. When I get a research technology, instead of it being a multiplier that exists only on the Racial Comparison Screen, I can come here and see my research rate is now 1200 per month. It isn't changing any of the underlying nuts and bolts, but it does give me the feeling of I am actually making changes.
Note: This post contains content that is meant to be whimsical. Any belittlement or trivialization of complex issues is only intended to lighten the mood and does not reflect upon the merit of those positions.