Author Topic: TLF is not ready for an expansion.  (Read 2197 times)

Offline x4000

  • Chris Park, Arcen Games Founder and Lead Designer
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,336
Re: TLF is not ready for an expansion.
« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2014, 09:58:09 AM »
We made a lot of enhancements to the combat portion of the engine back in June or so to be ready for this.  Then I was supposed to come up with the creative bullet patterns and just... well, I'm just not well-versed enough in SHMUPs to really do it justice in terms of those sorts of patterns.  So it was definitely the right call to have you come in and make every feel the pain, heh. ;)
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games?  Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline keith.lamothe

  • Arcen Games Staff
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,506
Re: TLF is not ready for an expansion.
« Reply #16 on: September 23, 2014, 10:00:45 AM »
And yes, they have a -211948 relationship with me. It overflowed in my attempts to get them to build more ships. I might have one somewhere before it overflowed trying to help, but that one save does contain both the issues I was talking about.
If you can give me a save from before the overflow and steps to reproduce the bug I can probably fix this; influence isn't just one number (it's a sum of a bunch of factors) so it would probably take me a long time to reproduce it by guess-and-check.
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games? Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline Eternaly_Lost

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 336
Re: TLF is not ready for an expansion.
« Reply #17 on: September 24, 2014, 04:19:43 PM »
And yes, they have a -211948 relationship with me. It overflowed in my attempts to get them to build more ships. I might have one somewhere before it overflowed trying to help, but that one save does contain both the issues I was talking about.
If you can give me a save from before the overflow and steps to reproduce the bug I can probably fix this; influence isn't just one number (it's a sum of a bunch of factors) so it would probably take me a long time to reproduce it by guess-and-check.

I do have a save from before, but it was not the one that I had basically sat into armada building. Walk away for an hour or two and came back to find it was negative and going back upwards. Given the latest patch changes, I can't even do that to test it any more.

I can however post the save from before if you want to mess around with it, but it was too long ago for me to recall anything more then just that.

Offline ElOhTeeBee

  • Jr. Member Mark II
  • **
  • Posts: 69
Re: TLF is not ready for an expansion.
« Reply #18 on: September 26, 2014, 09:45:21 PM »
Today, in absolutely worthless 'options': While trying to end a war between the Burlusts and the Evucks so I can get the latter to join the Federation, I noticed that I have yet to see a single instance where Andor peace brokering would not cost millions of credits. Are there options I'm missing, other than to spend hours grinding pirate bases for the cash and influence I need to pay the Evucks off to end the war (which I'm not going to do because it'd be lovably boring), or to figure out how to just get the Evucks killed off (which I'm not going to do because I'm trying to get all races into the federation)?

Offline Misery

  • Arcen Volunteer
  • Core Member Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,108
Re: TLF is not ready for an expansion.
« Reply #19 on: September 26, 2014, 10:22:37 PM »
What?  Costs millions?

What's the attitude level between the Evucks and whoever you're trying to stop?  Typically when I use the peacebrokering thing to stop war, it costs somewhere around 15000 to 100000.... not 5 million.

But if I recall, it depends on just how much hatred the two races involved have for each other.  I mean, think about it:  If there's a really extreme amount of absolute loathing between two groups, logically it aint exactly gonna be easy to get them to stop shooting at each other.  The more the Andors have to work at it, the more funding they need to pull it off.   And that's the thing;  the price ends up being determined by how soon you do something about it. I usually try to stop bad relations the moment they start, as in, they're only in the -1 to -10 range or so  The price doesnt get too bad at that time if the Burlust decide it's smashing time that early.  With wars in that range often being caused just by the Burlust being jerks or the Thoraxians being.... Thoraxians.  Either way though, war is a major effort by any given race, and they're not going to stop it so easily.  There's other aspects involved, but I forget what they are.   Either way, I find the option useful.... so long as I dont wait too long.  If it's progressed too far, it's going to take more than just activating a simple option like that one. 

Offline FortunaDraken

  • Newbie Mark II
  • *
  • Posts: 18
Re: TLF is not ready for an expansion.
« Reply #20 on: September 26, 2014, 10:30:03 PM »
It'll cost millions because the races hate each other (bring that up and the price will come down) and most likely one or both the races don't like the Andors, thus they resist the attempt even more. Most likely it's the Burlust, they don't seem to ever like the Andors unless you REALLY work at making them friendly. That is what drives the cost way up, because they don't want to do it.

It's a great option for early wars that you want to stop, but don't have the influence with the instigator to order them to stop. But long or multiple wars, along with race relationships, make the cost go up a ton. I've seen 400k and upwards costs with anything the Burlust are involved in, purely due to their mutual dislike with the Andors.

Offline x4000

  • Chris Park, Arcen Games Founder and Lead Designer
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,336
Re: TLF is not ready for an expansion.
« Reply #21 on: September 30, 2014, 11:32:50 AM »
Save game is attached.

And yes, they have a -211948 relationship with me. It overflowed in my attempts to get them to build more ships. I might have one somewhere before it overflowed trying to help, but that one save does contain both the issues I was talking about.

* Fixed a couple of issues with attitudes and influence where if players played for insanely long periods of time in a single game, doing lots of dispatch missions, they could actually cause the relationship with a race to roll over from positive to negative from an overflow.
** In our example case, the solar map relative time was 68 hours, or 614 years of solar map time, which is -- ahem -- quite a bit longer than we ever really anticipated a single game going.
** Anyway, the situation is now handled so that the rollover is impossible for both influence and attitudes, AND so that the total amount of influence or attitude from any one source can no longer be more than 10,000.  That one has some positive balance ramifications in general in super-long games.


Thank you! :)
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games?  Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!