Author Topic: TLF Version 1.015 Released (Nuanced Bloodshed)  (Read 5074 times)

Offline x4000

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TLF Version 1.015 Released (Nuanced Bloodshed)
« on: May 06, 2014, 05:19:03 pm »
Original: http://arcengames.blogspot.com/2014/05/tlf-version-1015-released-nuanced.html

Version 1.015 is now out, and continues to refine both how the AI acts on the solar map, and how you can impact it.  You now have much greater power to mow down a bunch of AI armadas at a planet if you so desire, for instance.  And the AI now takes a much more self-preserving approach to a variety of situations in which previously it would just wantonly declare wars.

The Burlusts have also gotten a new unique tech/building combo kind of like what the Thoraxians have, and I think this is a pretty interesting addition.  I like these additions particularly because they stay with the planet even after the planet changes hands, so if a Burlust planet gets taken by someone else, then that other race gains the advantages of the new Warzone Ground Weaponry, for instance.

The planetary summary/details screen has also had an enormous overhaul in terms of organization and readability, and includes some bits of brand new information that you previously could not access, too.  I'm actually really surprised by how much these changes help even me understand what is going on at a planet.  This was the most-complained-about interface, and recently there were some really bad text-wrapping issues (there always have been, but recently even moreso), so I felt like this was something to address sooner than later.

And lastly (aside from a whole bunch of other handy dandy fixes), the other six races now have their race-specific "spreading" actions, joining the Andors and Thoraxians, which got those last version.  These really add a new element to choosing which races to add to the federation when, and I always love that sort of thing.

I didn't get to any new quests yet, but I am planning on working on those later tonight and then tomorrow as well.  For some reason I seem to be putting those off for a bit, but also there was just a lot of other stuff that needed to be done.

--------------- Ongoing Updates All This Month ---------------
The support of the community, and the growth of it, remain amazing to me.  I've been promising daily new features, but last week it became clear that there are other things more on your mind.  Things like added interfaces, new AI behaviors and options, and things like that.  So, you know what?  I'm just going to go with that -- those count as features, really, in that they help to make the game more interesting and easier to understand and play.

So what else is going on?  Well, we're going to be working at this pace on the game for at least another month, which means that you're going to be seeing lots of good things coming.  If you've liked what you've seen in the last two weeks, you can imagine what another month of that will be like.  We do have two other things in the works as well, but we're not quite ready to reveal either one of them (although I am betting that most long-time Arcen fans can guess what both of them are).  Suffice it to say, neither one of these two other things are going to impact the general updates, improvements, and free additions to TLF that are coming over this month.

More to come tomorrow.  Enjoy!

This is a standard update that you can download through the  in-game updater, or if you have Steam it will automatically update it for you.  To force Steam to download it faster, just restart Steam and it will do so.
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games?  Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline Mick

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Re: TLF Version 1.015 Released (Nuanced Bloodshed)
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2014, 05:29:34 pm »
I fired up a game because I was especially interested in seeing what the new planet details looked like.

Velociter B kited me in the opening mission which was awfully frustrating, ugh!!!

In any case, once that unpleasantness was over with, I was quite pleased by the improvements to planetary details, it's on a good path! I think some collapse-all /expand-all buttons would be great additions.

Offline Sounds

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Re: TLF Version 1.015 Released (Nuanced Bloodshed)
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2014, 06:39:00 pm »
The planet details screen is moving in the right direction, yay!  :)

Is there any reason why the screen can't be more fully utilised than just a scrolling overlay?

Whilst it works as an overlay a lot better now on the solar map, the planet details screen seems to have a lot of wasted space (around 2/3 of the screen real-estate) devoted to the background screen.

Offline GC13

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Re: TLF Version 1.015 Released (Nuanced Bloodshed)
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2014, 06:45:05 pm »
I see a rebalance to RCI in there. Can we get a cheat sheet on what the RCI values do at various levels now?

Also, there are some handy improvements in there, but I don't see anything that changes the fact that most of my game time is devoted to building attitude buildings, and most of my real time is spent farming the AFA for credit.
Furthermore, it is my opinion that Hari must be destroyed.

Offline lifehole

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Re: TLF Version 1.015 Released (Nuanced Bloodshed)
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2014, 06:45:18 pm »
The planet details screen is moving in the right direction, yay!  :)

Is there any reason why the screen can't be more fully utilised than just a scrolling overlay?

Whilst it works as an overlay a lot better now on the solar map, the planet details screen seems to have a lot of wasted space (around 2/3 of the screen real-estate) devoted to the background screen.

I guess he wanted to showcase the art, which is nice to look at, but if it has to obscure that much of the screen....

Offline x4000

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Re: TLF Version 1.015 Released (Nuanced Bloodshed)
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2014, 07:43:05 pm »
Mainly to show the art, yes, but also so that we could use the same code for the sidebar and the planetary details.  Bear in mind that this has to work on screens down to 1024x720, so if you're on something giant then it seems more empty than it otherwise would.

In terms of farming the AFA for credits or whatnot, I hate to keep harping on quests (are we waiting for Godot?), but I really do feel like that's the answer to a lot of that stuff.  That's my big priority now, and I hope to really cram in a ton of them so that the feeling of the game changes enormously with suddenly just being chock full of them.  We'll see how that goes, in terms of how many I can do, how quickly.
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Offline Conductorbosh

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Re: TLF Version 1.015 Released (Nuanced Bloodshed)
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2014, 08:39:49 pm »
Chris and friends:

Tell me if this is just me, but I just ran three observer games (crash-landed with Burlusts, then Acutians, then Skylaxians) for about a hundred years. Each turned out very similarly, the two main things being that by year 100, the Skylaxians had the most powerful military in the game all three times, and all three times their space power was over 6X that of the race in second place.

The more worrying thing I noticed was no wars. Tons and tons of outpost destruction/skirmishing, but in 3 100 year long observer games there was never a single war; I don't know that the games will ever finish.

Is this happening to other people? Should I Mantis it?

Offline GC13

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Re: TLF Version 1.015 Released (Nuanced Bloodshed)
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2014, 08:42:11 pm »
Well that'll certainly help. More sources of income will be nice, but I hope some quests will give us the ability to spend money as well. For instance, if we were enhancing the quest to, say, deliver terraforming specs to a non-spacefaring planet still under blockade, perhaps we could bribe one of the blockading powers to deliver it for us rather than risk a reputation loss.

It's just... I see how the quests will help, but I still see the fundamentals as needing time devoted to them as well. It's not much of a strategy game if the optimum gameplay is so simple, and while quests will inject variety into my gameplay experience I don't see it doing much for putting some variety in my strategy experience.

"Build attitude buildings such that favored races will found the Federation, then go build more attitude buildings on other races to ensure harmonious solar system while trying to count to three hundred. Invite other races into formed Federation. For advanced users, get Andor (with Federationists) or Skylaxians on mutually good terms with races who hate you by using more attitude buildings."

That's how I've played my last two games. Sure, I'll pick up some research projects here and there, and I snag every hydral lab and pirate convoy I get (gotta get those bribe items for the Burlust, you see), but the Hydral labs can be autoresolved for twelve-turn wins, and only thing slowing the pirate convoys down is that the boarding logic seems wonky sometimes.

The problem is that right now the most crucial stat is how races feel towards each other, not how they feel towards you; some of the "join existing Federation" influence requirements are punitively high, so it's simpler just to wait three hundred months for them and the Andor or Skylaxians to fall in love with each other thanks to the attitude buildings you dropped. Not that picking up influence with a race is particularly difficult. If I couldn't backdoor a race into the Federation, then it would still just a matter of time. Nothing's happening on the map, and even if it was I tend to have two ways to interact with it: ask people to call the war off if I care what they think, or destroy their fleets if I don't. Either way, it's a quick intervention then back to grinding influence.

Wars are too simple, and tend to be too binary: we wiped out the target race, or didn't achieve anything. Fights over outposts should only happen during wars, and they should be a key focus of the war. We need outposts for natural resources as well, and colonized moons to be turned into two things: "Fortify Moon" which covers a moon with military defenses such that the planet can't be attacked until it's cleared out, and a real "Colonize Moon" that gives you additional population space.

I also continue to strongly believe that armadas not costing maintenance is a mistake. The conflict between guns and butter is a very basic and important strategic consideration for any nation. If a race had to choose between building new fleets, expanding their economic infrastructure, researching better technology (which makes ships that cost more per power, but reduce what you spend on maintenance per power), and maintaining existing fleets, then it would be possible to outlast a race that has a temporary advantage in military because they neglected their economy or research.

The presence of anti-Federation demonstrators also begs for public opinion to be another stat to keep track of. The Hydral can quickly become the people's champ by moving in and providing medical aid in a plague, until eventually (perhaps with a few well-paid agitators the Hydral puts in) the people demand that their government join the Federation.

I mean, I hope at least some of this is making sense. The Last Federation is exactly the kind of game concept I want to play, but right now I just don't think it's delivering on the "strategy" part of the game. I don't want it to be unmanageable, but right now once you learn not to see the garbage options you see that you need to do very little to win.
Furthermore, it is my opinion that Hari must be destroyed.

Offline jonasan

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Re: TLF Version 1.015 Released (Nuanced Bloodshed)
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2014, 08:50:07 pm »
i'm really looking forward to the new quests chris, and everything that will hopefully add to the game.

played through a game this evening and won on nightmare/misery setting (just short of 100 years total game time).... which was rather satisfying ;)

The increased relation requirements for starting/joining are definitely better, and make things a lot more tense/tricky to maintain the solar system in a good state until you hit that point.

however i'm not so sue about these attitude buildings... was my first time playing with them, and they feel a little artificial to me. the idea is nice but they seem to be the go to exploit right now... spamming these to get certain relations to ride out the storm of events/wars.... will have to test more and see how it all feels.

overall though i thoroughly enjoyed the play through, though just as in earlier versions, the time after your federation is formed and more or less winning is lacking in real interaction.... once we had four planets i pretty much just spammed 'assist armada construction' (apart from the odd bit of inciting attacks by my races and sabotage).... and waited it out.

didn't need to research any tech all game, not once.... which felt kind of wrong.. my randomly assigned peltian ship was able to stack two cloaks which is pretty damn overpowered i reckon. i really love the challenge of playing the combat on misery but to me the late game combat is just too optional still. Early game its great to take out the pirate bases, attack outposts and help defend/attack planets... and in tonights game on nightmare it felt really necessary to do these things to ensure no-one else got out of hand while my races buddied up to form the federation - which is great. But once the federation is going it dosn't feel like i need to engage with that side of the game any more. Apart from withdrawing from assasination missions i didn't see the combat screen again after the fed was up, and withdrawing from those assasinations is not an issue so much now as the time you loose from withdrawing has been cushioned by the general slow down of the game (so no need to fight there).

One thing to consider though here, when you do get to the late game if (as in my game tonight) you are way behind the tech curve then you feel like joining military actions would be suicidal (pretty much).... wouldn't it be reasonable to see those races who join with you in a federation share all their military tech with the hydral so that he can be combat effective to help them militarily? and would it not be reasonable for the federation races to then request the hydrals assistance in defense/attack in quests... which if ignored would degrade inter-federation relations? and if your relation with all other members of the federation gets too low into the neutral/negative ranges then perhaps the other members could even potentially kick you out the federation?

also, really hoping for some kind of quest which also threatens the existence of the federation late game.. perhaps a terrorist attack that you get information of, which will potentially turn one federation race against another and split the federation apart and so you need to intervene to stop it.

and one further idea that crossed my mind while playing tonight was this: perhaps the AFA could have agents, active operatives who fly around the system doing similar things that the player can do but working against the player and trying to break apart the federation. I realise this would be no small thing to add, but i can see this giving the 'game pushes back' effect to TLF - which it dosn't really have right now after you've got your federation up (assuming you have set things up pretty well). For example, you could hear reports on the activities of the AFA operative (blowing up attitude buildings, assisting other races in building other attitude buildings to help bring about alternative alliances to the federation, building relations, setting up trade routes, smuggling in resistance fighters, etc..) and perhaps have to rectify his actions through quests or try to hunt the AFA agent down through a quest given by races who 'have one cornered'.

anyway, like i said the game is coming on great, keep at it ...and nightmare was definitely a better challenge.

though like GC13 said above, its still a little to simple to win once you figure things out. ;D

Offline Misery

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Re: TLF Version 1.015 Released (Nuanced Bloodshed)
« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2014, 09:02:44 pm »
didn't need to research any tech all game, not once.... which felt kind of wrong.. my randomly assigned peltian ship was able to stack two cloaks which is pretty damn overpowered i reckon. i really love the challenge of playing the combat on misery but to me the late game combat is just too optional still. Early game its great to take out the pirate bases, attack outposts and help defend/attack planets... and in tonights game on nightmare it felt really necessary to do these things to ensure no-one else got out of hand while my races buddied up to form the federation - which is great. But once the federation is going it dosn't feel like i need to engage with that side of the game any more. Apart from withdrawing from assasination missions i didn't see the combat screen again after the fed was up, and withdrawing from those assasinations is not an issue so much now as the time you loose from withdrawing has been cushioned by the general slow down of the game (so no need to fight there).


This one had been bugging me as well.

The further you get into the game, the less you need to fight.  One side of the game sorta just.... falls off as you go along.   The player's participation in the combat side of the game (even if the person playing it is auto-resolving alot) needs to be made more important, in an overall and constant sense.  Particularly since the combat system is just so darned good.

The tech thing kinda bugs me as well.  If you're able to get through the entire game on the highest strategic difficulty without ever researching.... something is definitely wrong, as that's supposed to be a very important mechanic, yes?  Not that I know any of these advanced tricks on the solar map, but still, that they are there at all is a problem, I should think.  Even in my own games though, researching never seems as important as it SHOULD be.  It's like, okay, these are useful, but typically these races I'm researching with are going to end up powering themselves up in pretty much the same way even if I dont help directly.  Which is the problem, I think that does need to be looked at.    And the combat techs, well, if the combat is losing importance in the late-game... or even in the somewhat early mid-game, which seems to be the case, then yeah, you dont need many of these at all, since they're not necessary very early on, when the combat is frequent.


On a side note, the idea of completing the game on a difficulty that can be named as "Nightmare Misery" really cracks me up.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2014, 09:05:31 pm by Misery »

Offline Sounds

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Re: TLF Version 1.015 Released (Nuanced Bloodshed)
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2014, 09:07:51 pm »
Mainly to show the art, yes, but also so that we could use the same code for the sidebar and the planetary details.  Bear in mind that this has to work on screens down to 1024x720, so if you're on something giant then it seems more empty than it otherwise would.

...

Ah now I see where you're coming from, that really is tiny real-estate to work with.

When I run it at 2560x1440 it looks completely odd. Trying to find the sweet spot however, I did a few tests with different resolutions and once you hit 1280x768+ the screen proportion of emptiness goes past 60%. I guess not something you can solve if you're targeting such a low resolution and getting as much code reuse as you can. As it stands it a good improvement, just that I'd love to see a real planetary screen that not only lays out the information better but also reflects a more visual and organic view of growth of the planet.

For the moment the only reason to look at this screen is to access the logs, which I do pretty infrequent. This makes me wonder whether the planetary screen is pretty much superfluous if you consider that the solar map overlay provides the same view. What I'd like to see is more interactive / immersive components added to the planetary details functionality rather than just a list of text, but that probably goes beyond a free update at this stage.

Offline MaskityMask

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Re: TLF Version 1.015 Released (Nuanced Bloodshed)
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2014, 12:15:33 am »
I'm rather curious if Last Federation players always try to form federation with easy races or if they try to challenge themselves and make federation with evil or neutral races instead... I at least try to get every possible anti federation alliance form so that I don't always fight against the same one.

Offline GC13

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Re: TLF Version 1.015 Released (Nuanced Bloodshed)
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2014, 12:34:12 am »
The game where I'm waiting on a "really Andor, please stop killing them" button so I can try to win with all eight races in the Federation I formed with the Evucks and the Boarine, with the Skylaxians chosen as the race that didn't like me. For all the good it mattered, as the Andor spawned with the Federationists for the first time in one of my game and are more than happy to join the Federation as soon as you've gunned down a few insurgents.

Actually, I haven't seen an anti-Federation alliance form for a while.
Furthermore, it is my opinion that Hari must be destroyed.

Offline MaskityMask

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Re: TLF Version 1.015 Released (Nuanced Bloodshed)
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2014, 12:52:27 am »
Hmm, yeah, Solar Axis pact isn't as common anymore now that races aren't as murder happy.

And fear empire seems to be also now pretty rare...

Union of independent states happen only if those three are out of federation when you form one and add fourth race, so its rather easy to avoid, Trifecta of superioty doesn't happen unless you really want it to happen, Thoraxian proctorate requires thoraxians to conquer a planet and honestly they are more likely to form solar axis pact, smuggler empire... I really have no idea what defines number of smugglers... The betrayed sounds like you have to do hostile actions towards federation members, so I guess you won't get that one unless you try to aim for single race alive only achievement.

In other words, anti federation alliances don't really happen unless player manipulates it so that they happen

I could swear that all of my games recently have had federationist andors... Did devs change how common they are?
« Last Edit: May 07, 2014, 12:57:44 am by MaskityMask »

Offline DrFranknfurter

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Re: TLF Version 1.015 Released (Nuanced Bloodshed)
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2014, 06:23:45 am »
Just had an observer game with the Solar Axis pact between... Acutians, Burlusts and Skylaxians i think... three early dead races but for a hundred years the other two non-axis races survived, Evucks just chilled with a massive fleet. Boarines were hated by all, a token 1m population and no fleet but they were all uninterested in capturing that world... odd. Still, rather nice to be able to just watch the game grow over time.