Author Topic: So what's going on with the alpha right now? (Combat info!)  (Read 4791 times)

Offline x4000

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So what's going on with the alpha right now? (Combat info!)
« on: February 24, 2014, 10:23:28 am »
Answer: a whole incredible heck of a lot internally, but nothing as far as players can see quite yet.  We'll have something ready in the next few days, though, both for showing videos of and for alpha players to test.  We'll also be letting in a new batch of 10 players at that time.  I don't know exactly what day this will be, maybe Wednesday, hopefully Thursday at the latest.

Combat was identified as clearly the weak link in the game based on our tests and feedback with existing alpha players, and I was getting that feeling myself.  It was one of those things that was aaalmost right in some ways, but just didn't quite feel right for a lot of small reasons.  A hundred little paper cuts.  What mostly we were getting as suggestions were the ideas of band-aids for the various paper cuts, and that makes a lot of sense -- identifying those sorts of things is the main thing we look for from testers.

My job as the designer is to look at things in total, though, and what I was seeing is that basically there were too many paper cuts and too many band-aids to make sense trying that approach further.  Cyborg actually pretty much said the same thing as well, and I think Misery may have also been thinking along those lines from some comments he made.  Heck, all of you may have been thinking that for all I know, but that sort of thing is not typically voiced by everyone.

Anyway, so what we've been working on is basically a complete overhaul of combat.  The interface is really different and streamlined, so are the controls, and so are the ways in which you can interact with combat directly.  But the AI side of things has gotten incredibly beefed up in terms of our capabilities there, and basically a lot of that has been rewritten from scratch.  That AI stuff is all working now, and is bloody cool to watch, actually.  We have multi-faction fights, and all sorts of really beautiful patterns, and so forth.

We've also been working towards having the combat even more tightly tied into the main solar map game, both in terms of direct influences on it, as well as the FEEL of the two.  Aka, keeping that "Batman in space" vibe into the combat itself, and giving you a lot more tactical options to do... whatever it is you want to do.  You might enter a fight on one side, and betray that side halfway through.  Or you might enter a conflict ostensibly to do one thing (so the races believe), but then you just take that opportunity to sneak around and mess up some infrastructure and then withdraw.  You slip in and out of battles, sometimes dominating them or helping to dominate them, but often just coming in to kick some butt on part of the map, accomplish some self-set objectives, and then get out of dodge.  It's not retreating anymore -- it's "withdrawing."  Batman doesn't have a reason to stick around and murder everyone for the heck of it.

All of this has knock-on effects to a lot of things, as you might imagine:
- Combat AI
- Combat Interface
- Available Contracts and their content
- Combat Practice
- Black Market screens
- New structures and other floating space installations
- New influence reactions to various actions you take, such as betrayals
- Multi-faction combat in general
- Revised balance
- Revised player flagship abilities
- And I'm sure I'm forgetting some other things.


The list is absolutely enormous, and it's a lot of under-the-hood work.  So that's why it's been taking us so long without much word on what's going on.  But based on past comments by our existing alpha players, and based on my own testing of both the old and new systems, I feel pretty confident in saying that you're going to love this. :D
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Offline nas1m

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Re: So what's going on with the alpha right now? (Combat info!)
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2014, 10:45:18 am »
We've also been working towards having the combat even more tightly tied into the main solar map game, ... Aka, keeping that "Batman in space" vibe into the combat itself, and giving you a lot more tactical options to do...

...I feel pretty confident in saying that you're going to love this. :D
You have one happy customer waiting here for sure :D. This sound like you nailed it this time!
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Offline x4000

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Re: So what's going on with the alpha right now? (Combat info!)
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2014, 10:47:19 am »
I hope so!  It's obviously going to need a ton of refinement after the first version, because that will literally be hot off the presses, so to speak.  But this just feels very "right" to me, when I look at this both on paper and in the game itself at the moment.
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Offline Mick

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Re: So what's going on with the alpha right now? (Combat info!)
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2014, 10:52:46 am »
I like the sound of this. The old system sounded a bit too "win or reload" to me. This sounds like it will integrate with the system level gameplay a lot better.

Offline Kingpin23

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Re: So what's going on with the alpha right now? (Combat info!)
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2014, 11:22:09 am »
I like what I read so far and cant wait to see the game in action.
Been returning to the forum everyday  to find some news and I'm glad the development is going well.


Offline Apathetic

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Re: So what's going on with the alpha right now? (Combat info!)
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2014, 02:17:47 pm »
That sounds interesting, I look forward to it!

Offline echo2361

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Re: So what's going on with the alpha right now? (Combat info!)
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2014, 02:20:11 pm »
You might enter a fight on one side, and betray that side halfway through.  Or you might enter a conflict ostensibly to do one thing (so the races believe), but then you just take that opportunity to sneak around and mess up some infrastructure and then withdraw.  You slip in and out of battles, sometimes dominating them or helping to dominate them, but often just coming in to kick some butt on part of the map, accomplish some self-set objectives, and then get out of dodge.  It's not retreating anymore -- it's "withdrawing."  Batman doesn't have a reason to stick around and murder everyone for the heck of it.

This part in particular has me quite excited. I will feel much more like a mercenary if I am participating in larger scale conflicts between two or more sides. Historically, mercenaries were never really sent in to capture an important military objective by themselves. They were often hired to simply supplement the army size of their purchaser or to capture a smaller scale objective. Look at the Swiss mercenary pikemen hired by the French during the Renaissance or the German Hessians hired by the British during the American Revolution. They either fought on the same battlefield with the main armies or they captured smaller objectives, like the Hessian soldiers occupying Trenton when Washington crossed the Delaware.

The other thing I like about this is the freedom of choice given to the player after "accepting" a mission. I'm imaging a scenario where I accept a long term contract to weaken X race. Later on, I might accept some missions from X to defend their orbital shipyards or their asteroid mining bases. Once the mission starts I attack those assets instead of protecting them. This action costs my relations with X heavily, but they are still logical because I am working towards succeeding on my longer term mission to weaken X, which would presumably have a high reward attached to it. As long as there is no need to stick around and kill everything to complete a mission, I can imagine myself slipping in and out of battles all the time working towards my greater objectives.

Offline ScrObot

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Re: So what's going on with the alpha right now? (Combat info!)
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2014, 03:15:41 pm »
This sounds very exciting. Honestly, the initial descriptions of combat where you're one little guy dealing with larger forces you couldn't hope to defeat in a straight battle sounded really cool. Then the last overhaul came and it suddenly transformed into a more generic "my fleet versus your similarly sized fleet" and it lost that "mercenary" or "rogue" feeling. Pulling that scope back and leaving you to control one or a fewer number of ships versus larger forces sounds much more intriguing. Looking forward to it!

Offline Billick

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Re: So what's going on with the alpha right now? (Combat info!)
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2014, 03:29:28 pm »
Sounds pretty good!  Unfortunately I am super busy Wednesday-Sunday, so I won't get to play at all until next week, but I'm looking forward to seeing what's next.

Offline Breach

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Re: So what's going on with the alpha right now? (Combat info!)
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2014, 04:26:05 pm »
I'm very interested as to seeing what the new UI will look like. I agree that the old one looked good but seemed a bit clumsy to use (not having played it myself).  I hope you manage to maintain the good appearance while boosting the usability!

I'm also looking forward to seeing the new AI.  From the looks of things it seemed to me like the only things really happening to me was two forces smashing into each other while releasing everything and hoping you'd come out on top.  Of course I hope that's changed or my impressions were wrong, but I'll be paying attention either way.

Offline Cyborg

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Re: So what's going on with the alpha right now? (Combat info!)
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2014, 07:25:50 pm »
From a flavor standpoint, this matches the solar system gameplay a lot better. Interested.
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Offline kosmoface

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Re: So what's going on with the alpha right now? (Combat info!)
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2014, 04:05:05 pm »
Wow, this sounds incredible. :) I really like the idea of being a tiny force on a major battlefield were parties are battling it out between each other, while I try to fulfill my own agenda. I imagine it is mighty dangerous and deadly to make wrong moves.

Offline JAlfredGoodwin

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Re: So what's going on with the alpha right now? (Combat info!)
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2014, 05:27:44 pm »
This sounds pretty awesome.

I like the idea of being the outnumbered Mercenaries who define and dominate the schwerpkunkt even though totally outclassed in general.

Offline jerith

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Re: So what's going on with the alpha right now? (Combat info!)
« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2014, 01:42:02 pm »
I really like the sound of this part of this changelog entry:
Quote
However, these aren't JUST secondary objectives. If you are fighting in enemy space, and are guns-free against that enemy (as you would presumably be), then you have to be careful not to accidentally destroy these civilian things if you don't like the consequences of doing so. This helps to create yet more "terrain" to the battlefield, where this time you are avoiding parts of it because you are worried about what YOU might do, rather than what your enemy might do to you.

Offline x4000

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Re: So what's going on with the alpha right now? (Combat info!)
« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2014, 01:51:27 pm »
I'm very pleased about that, too. :)


This whole thing with the combat revamp is taking longer than anticipated because of just the vast scope of it, really -- so much new stuff here, and the flexibility under the hood has jumped upwards a lot.  But I'm really pleased with how it's turning out. :)
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