Science: What am I missing?

[nas1m]

Okay, so I am supposed to research techs together with a sponsor (supposing I don't want to steal the tech). To get the juicy ones I am supposed to hire scientist goons and research techs that increase my science rating.

The trouble is: How am I supposed to ever be able to research even the most basic science tech if it takes 300 months to research? Coming up with the necessary amount of credits to do this using goons just does not seem feasible...

Do I really have to piss the Skylaxians or Andors off early game by stealing their science related techs? They also do not seem to be inclined to gift such techs to other races so that I could steal them. Maybe they simply do not like them enough, don't know.

Am I missing something here?

Supposing I am not, how about making at least one science tech feasible for research early game? Would seem reasonable to me. Currently I have the feeling that I am not able to execute the steps proposed by the tutorial at all in this regard (in terms of actually increasing my abilities via research), something that might be a stumbling block for new players as well...

Currently I do feel like the solar systems poor man in terms of science, which just feels - wrong.

Any insights appreciated .

[x4000]

Increasing your science score reduces the number of months, and on top of that increases the effectiveness of your goons.  There may be a bug there at the moment, though.  So let's suppose that something takes 300 months, normally.  You get a science multiplier that gives you a "piddly" 1.5x bonus.  That should drop the number of months to 200.  That would mean that, in order to research it in 30 months, you'd need 170 goons, right?  No.  It should be 114 goons, because they just went up in effectiveness by 1.5x, too.

Etc.

[nas1m]

Is 114 goons an amount you would consider normal here? Then maybe that's my issue. I was somehow expecting ~20 goons to be a goodly amount.

Also: How am I supposed to get that much credit early in game to hire 100+ goons? Seems a mighty efofrt for one single (base level) tech...

Thanks!

PS: A hint that goons are expected to be hired in legion might be worthwhile dropping somewhere in the game if that is what you are going for...

[x4000]

For the late game, I'd expect you to have loads of goons, yeah.  In the early game, fewer would indeed be the goal.  It's something I've not tested deeply yet, honestly, as the model to goons came recently and I'm still adding more stuff with the quests.

The number of months is well-balanced in terms of the RACES researching stuff, for sure.  And I don't want the player to be so powerful that they can research a ton of stuff off the tree.  So it's kind of a tricky thing.  I complicated that when I added the hull stuff for the player ships, because those are so essential.  I think I may need another couple of goon types to compensate for those.

Doing A tech is normally supposed to be a big deal, but the other stuff is "keeping up with the joneses," so that's tricky.

[nas1m]

Thanks for answering, I will mull on this.
Now, back to your quests. Shooh !

PS: After having met the "first month" quests for the first time, I think quests might be worth a dedicated tutorial step. Just something for you to think about. Mantised here.

[Tridus]

Captured science outposts can also help with this, right?

I found it was okay to steal from races once in a while, so long as you can do something to make up for it (or just have a race that really hates you and live with it). You don't have to research everything yourself.

[nas1m]

Oh my, still having trouble with this ruthless mercenary thing ...

[Hyfrydle]

I managed to research the MK2 defensive upgrade but it took 74 science goons and a fair time not sure exactly how long but it does seem to be a high number of goons.

I can understand the need to not make research too easy but it has to feel achievable and early game it certainly isn't which could confuse newer players.

[x4000]

There's a huge bug in research right now where it was actually costing you more time rather than less as you improved your science.  Not sure when that popped in there, but anyway that was skewing everything!

[Hyfrydle]

That makes sense look forward to seeing how this affects the next version.

[madcow]

I didn't even realize helping a race research a tech gave it to you as well. Is this mentioned in the tutorial messages anywhere? 

[x4000]

I believe so, and the actual contract says that too, I believe.

[Tridus]

The research mission text mentions that you get a copy, yes.

[x4000]

I will make a point for the adviser to also mention how to get the techs this way.