Author Topic: Pssst! It's a secret to everybody. (Want to do some testing?)  (Read 8293 times)

Offline Draco18s

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Re: Pssst! It's a secret to everybody. (Want to do some testing?)
« Reply #45 on: November 02, 2015, 01:52:39 PM »
By the way, did you get my PM, draco?

Which PM was that?

Yeah, I agree with roosterman. We need to add some !!FUN!! to Hydral tech missions. My first time playing had me jump out of the system immediately when I saw the Golems. After a while I stopped bothering even doing the missions since my weapons just cut through them too easily.

I do agree with this assessment, but new ships are tricky.  Its not just "I need to fill this role" but working out how it does that.  The two turrets I did had very specific goals in mind which made it easy to conceptualize how it would accomplish those goals.  The artillery turret was "has to be more deadly at long range than short" as nearly everything in the game is more deadly at close range (short shot travel distance combined with denser shot patterns).

And there seems to be no music in the game since I've in the beta. I turned my volume fully up and suddenly the sound effects exploded! Still no music.

Weird.  I haven't touched any code there, check the options, I think there's a separate slider for music in there.

Quote
Spoiler for Hidden:
Haven't seen any of those new hydral missions. O played the new tech race mode, are they aviable there?

Its under "hostile actions" at the destroyed hydral homeworld, when available (there's a notification event).

Quote
Spoiler for Hidden:
You will do most of the time researching which is the idle horror of TLF. It didn't bother me quite in the other modes despite still needed (especially in Betrayal). But an entire game mode centered around researching means that you do most of the time in the game NOTHING!

This is something I'm aware of, but not likely something that can change.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2015, 01:56:46 PM by Draco18s »

Offline crazyroosterman

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Re: Pssst! It's a secret to everybody. (Want to do some testing?)
« Reply #46 on: November 02, 2015, 02:33:23 PM »
The new artillery turret is cool. And brutal. Ripped through my hull very fast. But the animation is so cool!
Spoiler for Hidden:
Haven't seen any of those new hydral missions. O played the new tech race mode, are they aviable there?
And there seems to be no music in the game since I've in the beta. I turned my volume fully up and suddenly the sound effects exploded! Still no music.

Tech race is a nice new game mode but a little PLAIN in my opinion. You will do most of the time researching which is the idle horror of TLF. It didn't bother me quite in the other modes despite still needed (especially in Betrayal). But an entire game mode centered around researching means that you do most of the time in the game NOTHING! Well, idling is of course something but all you can do is to watch the fast forward movements of the other ships. Worse, in this process can happen a lot of stuff that ends negatively and because you are more or less forced to do it, you have to bear with it.
I've stolen or learned every tech I didn't know fromt he other races right at the first 2 years, after that you can only do the idling thing. I think for this new game mode should be a new way to learn techs beside that.
I agree somewhat but that's not realy any different to the default although in different ways something I rather like about tech race is that if it suits me I can throw a race under the bus so to speak without feeling like a total failure. ps not something draco can do anything about but when I get round to it I'm going to moan on the mantis about how assassins have way more health/shields than is possibly a good thing pps the influence damage you get from doing that mission seems a bit excessive to me perhaps halving it would be a good idea?
« Last Edit: November 02, 2015, 02:37:20 PM by crazyroosterman »
c.r

Offline Cyborg

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Re: Pssst! It's a secret to everybody. (Want to do some testing?)
« Reply #47 on: November 02, 2015, 09:53:41 PM »
I want to zero in on just new content. What is it that, specifically, you need tested the most, so I can focus on that? Otherwise, I just feel like I'm starting up a new game and playing again, which is fun, but maybe not useful to you.
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Offline Captain Jack

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Re: Pssst! It's a secret to everybody. (Want to do some testing?)
« Reply #48 on: November 02, 2015, 11:05:15 PM »
I want to zero in on just new content. What is it that, specifically, you need tested the most, so I can focus on that? Otherwise, I just feel like I'm starting up a new game and playing again, which is fun, but maybe not useful to you.
The racial techs that unlock with the passage of time. They're like the Thoraxian evolutions in that they unlock over time, except they actually work.  :P

So do full playthroughs, we need to make sure the Thoraxians only dominate half the time.


Yeah, I agree with roosterman. We need to add some !!FUN!! to Hydral tech missions. My first time playing had me jump out of the system immediately when I saw the Golems. After a while I stopped bothering even doing the missions since my weapons just cut through them too easily.

I do agree with this assessment, but new ships are tricky.  Its not just "I need to fill this role" but working out how it does that.  The two turrets I did had very specific goals in mind which made it easy to conceptualize how it would accomplish those goals.  The artillery turret was "has to be more deadly at long range than short" as nearly everything in the game is more deadly at close range (short shot travel distance combined with denser shot patterns.
Actually, you don't need to add any ships. Just modify the encounters themselves. Replace the regular Golems with champions, plop a bunch of the force multiplying structures onto the field, or just amp their stats.

I'd recommend more drastic measures but they'd call for a fuller overhaul of the missions themselves. Maybe next expansion/major patch.

Offline Draco18s

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Re: Pssst! It's a secret to everybody. (Want to do some testing?)
« Reply #49 on: November 02, 2015, 11:52:13 PM »
Actually, you don't need to add any ships. Just modify the encounters themselves. Replace the regular Golems with champions, plop a bunch of the force multiplying structures onto the field, or just amp their stats.

Its still really tricky to do stuff like that.  There's a ton of stuff going on in the creation of an encounter (did I mention side effects? I did, somewhere).
For instance, I fixed the new mission auto-resolve by declaring the turret-thing as a defensive goodie....which had the side effect of making it spawn in planetary orbit as if it was a science lab or weather satellite under the control of another race.  One of those "oh yeah, I forgot it did that" things when I noticed it earlier today.

That is: making things dynamic depending on conditionals requires digging through a large section of code that I don't understand very well to see if the kinds of levers I want already exist.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2015, 11:56:28 PM by Draco18s »

Offline Captain Jack

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Re: Pssst! It's a secret to everybody. (Want to do some testing?)
« Reply #50 on: November 03, 2015, 12:21:54 AM »
Actually, you don't need to add any ships. Just modify the encounters themselves. Replace the regular Golems with champions, plop a bunch of the force multiplying structures onto the field, or just amp their stats.

Its still really tricky to do stuff like that.  There's a ton of stuff going on in the creation of an encounter (did I mention side effects? I did, somewhere).
For instance, I fixed the new mission auto-resolve by declaring the turret-thing as a defensive goodie....which had the side effect of making it spawn in planetary orbit as if it was a science lab or weather satellite under the control of another race.  One of those "oh yeah, I forgot it did that" things when I noticed it earlier today.

That is: making things dynamic depending on conditionals requires digging through a large section of code that I don't understand very well to see if the kinds of levers I want already exist.
Nah, this wouldn't be dynamic, just a speed booster set to buff all enemies would be enough for the bullets to send you straight to hell.  >D

Or is that the kind of thing you're talking about? I don't think it's the kind of thing that would be classified as a defensive placement...

Offline Draco18s

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Re: Pssst! It's a secret to everybody. (Want to do some testing?)
« Reply #51 on: November 03, 2015, 01:17:39 AM »
The image is the new turret showing up where I didn't intend for it.  Which is what I mean by side effects of things that I don't fully understand.

Offline Captain Jack

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Re: Pssst! It's a secret to everybody. (Want to do some testing?)
« Reply #52 on: November 03, 2015, 02:09:49 AM »
The image is the new turret showing up where I didn't intend for it.  Which is what I mean by side effects of things that I don't fully understand.
Huh, somehow I thought the problem was the opposite: that the planetary background showed up on a map where the artillery turret was present. Just saw the mission statement for what it is. How incredibly odd.

Offline Pumpkin

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Re: Pssst! It's a secret to everybody. (Want to do some testing?)
« Reply #53 on: November 03, 2015, 04:33:13 AM »
Quote
Spoiler for Hidden:
Haven't seen any of those new hydral missions. O played the new tech race mode, are they aviable there?
Its under "hostile actions" at the destroyed hydral homeworld, when available (there's a notification event).
Okay, I loaded my beta test save, checked the hydral world's hostile actions and found the mission. I didn't noticed it before. I feels like there is a problem here: after hours of vanilla (or Betrayed Hopes) play, I learn to never check neither bother about the hydral's homeworld. I think something like an icon on top of the busted planet's image would do the trick. Is that in your coding range? Does it sounds like an actual problem, and is what I suggest a solution?
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Offline crazyroosterman

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Re: Pssst! It's a secret to everybody. (Want to do some testing?)
« Reply #54 on: November 03, 2015, 06:47:35 AM »
Actually, you don't need to add any ships. Just modify the encounters themselves. Replace the regular Golems with champions, plop a bunch of the force multiplying structures onto the field, or just amp their stats.

Its still really tricky to do stuff like that.  There's a ton of stuff going on in the creation of an encounter (did I mention side effects? I did, somewhere).
For instance, I fixed the new mission auto-resolve by declaring the turret-thing as a defensive goodie....which had the side effect of making it spawn in planetary orbit as if it was a science lab or weather satellite under the control of another race.  One of those "oh yeah, I forgot it did that" things when I noticed it earlier today.

That is: making things dynamic depending on conditionals requires digging through a large section of code that I don't understand very well to see if the kinds of levers I want already exist.
id be all for a speed buff to those golems there way to easy to cheese at the moment although I think that's more a patch thing than an expansion thing really.
c.r

Offline chemical_art

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Re: Pssst! It's a secret to everybody. (Want to do some testing?)
« Reply #55 on: November 03, 2015, 09:07:36 AM »
I know betrayal mode is not on your list but...it's absolutely bonkers. Each time you kill someone they all get a +4 ship tech bonus. Which is bad enough. But pirates get it too! Ouch. Plus after you take the first planet it seems the whole galaxy hates your guts, even if you invested 90+ influence into a race.

THAT said, I still win. RCI destruction and all that jazz.

As for the new mission: I hate it with a passion. There is one tech that makes it short but tedious but long and tedious which is nice but still I hate those new turrets. It also wrecks fleet vs fleet engagements because the defense wins by default if one of those turrets are in play.
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Offline Draco18s

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Re: Pssst! It's a secret to everybody. (Want to do some testing?)
« Reply #56 on: November 03, 2015, 11:00:55 AM »
Okay, I loaded my beta test save, checked the hydral world's hostile actions and found the mission. I didn't noticed it before. I feels like there is a problem here: after hours of vanilla (or Betrayed Hopes) play, I learn to never check neither bother about the hydral's homeworld. I think something like an icon on top of the busted planet's image would do the trick. Is that in your coding range? Does it sounds like an actual problem, and is what I suggest a solution?
I figured that was the best place to put it. ;)
I know betrayal mode is not on your list but...it's absolutely bonkers. Each time you kill someone they all get a +4 ship tech bonus. Which is bad enough. But pirates get it too! Ouch. Plus after you take the first planet it seems the whole galaxy hates your guts, even if you invested 90+ influence into a race.

Huh, the betrayal game I did I didn't seem to find it that difficult.  I'll see if I can dig around and find that, though.

Quote
As for the new mission: I hate it with a passion. There is one tech that makes it short but tedious but long and tedious which is nice but still I hate those new turrets. It also wrecks fleet vs fleet engagements because the defense wins by default if one of those turrets are in play.

I'll look into this.  It was a concern of Misery's (more about those transport ships that want to fly to a location than attacking units, but it was still raised).

Offline x4000

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Re: Pssst! It's a secret to everybody. (Want to do some testing?)
« Reply #57 on: November 03, 2015, 11:04:19 AM »
Quote
still I hate those new turrets. It also wrecks fleet vs fleet engagements because the defense wins by default if one of those turrets are in play.

I'll look into this.  It was a concern of Misery's (more about those transport ships that want to fly to a location than attacking units, but it was still raised).

Draco, you might want to make sure the turrets don't spawn in fleet vs fleet engagements, just player vs fleet/outpost/whatever engagements.
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Offline Misery

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Re: Pssst! It's a secret to everybody. (Want to do some testing?)
« Reply #58 on: November 03, 2015, 11:07:31 AM »
Okay, I loaded my beta test save, checked the hydral world's hostile actions and found the mission. I didn't noticed it before. I feels like there is a problem here: after hours of vanilla (or Betrayed Hopes) play, I learn to never check neither bother about the hydral's homeworld. I think something like an icon on top of the busted planet's image would do the trick. Is that in your coding range? Does it sounds like an actual problem, and is what I suggest a solution?
I figured that was the best place to put it. ;)
I know betrayal mode is not on your list but...it's absolutely bonkers. Each time you kill someone they all get a +4 ship tech bonus. Which is bad enough. But pirates get it too! Ouch. Plus after you take the first planet it seems the whole galaxy hates your guts, even if you invested 90+ influence into a race.

Huh, the betrayal game I did I didn't seem to find it that difficult.  I'll see if I can dig around and find that, though.

Quote
As for the new mission: I hate it with a passion. There is one tech that makes it short but tedious but long and tedious which is nice but still I hate those new turrets. It also wrecks fleet vs fleet engagements because the defense wins by default if one of those turrets are in play.

I'll look into this.  It was a concern of Misery's (more about those transport ships that want to fly to a location than attacking units, but it was still raised).

Do you mean the bit about the giant doom turret (or whatever you want to call it) potentially wrecking AI ships that are anywhere near where it fires?

It definitely wasnt designed to AVOID that scenario, I can say that much, hah.  But it IS designed entirely around a concept relating entirely to just the player's ship.

The only real way to change the thing so that it stops wrecking the AI while keeping it's original concept and purpose intact would be to make it so that, somehow, it only affects the player ship.  Or that it does like, hardly any damage whatsoever to AI ships, and because of some lore reason wrecks the Hydral's ship because it's the Hydral or.... I dont even know. Lore or science of some sort as a reason.  But either way, it's designed to be attacked by the player alone.  The AI cant deal with something like that.

It had definitely been a concern of mine when putting it together, but having a huge effect like it does is the only way for it to fulfill it's intended purpose.

Offline x4000

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Re: Pssst! It's a secret to everybody. (Want to do some testing?)
« Reply #59 on: November 03, 2015, 11:32:55 AM »
Making its bullets only hit the player would definitely be possible in code, yeah.
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