Arcen Games

Games => The Last Federation => Topic started by: x4000 on April 21, 2014, 08:45:46 PM

Title: PLEASE REPORT FEEDBACK TO MANTIS IF YOU WANT US TO SEE IT! :)
Post by: x4000 on April 21, 2014, 08:45:46 PM
Sorry for the all caps, hopefully the smiley face takes off the sting. ;)

Briefly:

1. I love that you guys are all having big discussions and so forth here in the forums, and that is wonderful.  I'm not advocating that you stop doing that, because that really helps form a sense of community and consensus.

2. However, as the devs we really don't have time to read all of those, because those are, well... discussions.  They aren't suggestions or anything concrete, they are long back and forths often covering lots of topics and points of view.  We could spend hours reading those every day, and that would seriously cut back on the amount of actual output we can give you in terms of changes.  We're not trying to be standoffish, and by all means when something needs us to come in and comment directly, please let us know and we're happy to do so.

3. That said, things that are bug reports or feature suggestions should get into mantis by some means: http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/  We have some awesome helpers who have been moving things from forum posts where applicable into mantis, and that really helps.  In a lot of those cases, it follows a long discussion that then results in some degree of community consensus, and then semi-consensus is then logged into mantis for us-the-devs to look at.  That really helps productivity on our side a ton.


My ultimate goal is to be able to spend as much time available on things that add value for you, versus spending time just chatting and ruminating.  I think that's a win for everyone, so any continual help that people can provide on that front is very much appreciated!  Thank you all so much for your support, and I really file this as "one of those good problems to have," but it's still a case where we have a problem of sorting through far more feedback than any one or two humans can reasonably do while still accomplishing anything else.
Title: Re: PLEASE REPORT FEEDBACK TO MANTIS IF YOU WANT US TO SEE IT! :)
Post by: Lancefighter on April 21, 2014, 09:37:31 PM
I dont suppose TLF has uhm.. Modding support.. at all? I know with aiwar you wrote everything directly into the code or something, I suppose you did the same thing here?

Its kinda difficult to suggest balance changes without really being able to.. Youknow, playtest them. As much as I have suggested totally not gigantic balance shifts on mantis before, its still something that is hard to really say without playtesting, which I kinda assume you dont really have the time to do (based on this post).

As for other random things (like spelling TotalBiscuit's name wrong in the patchnotes.. Its TotalBiscuit no space! dont worry I fixed it) Minor things and all :D Also getting people to agree enough to make a single concise suggestion will likely be difficult, which either means you have multiple combat rebalance suggestions posted, or discussion just happens on mantis instead.. I dunno. Forums are hard.
Title: Re: PLEASE REPORT FEEDBACK TO MANTIS IF YOU WANT US TO SEE IT! :)
Post by: x4000 on April 21, 2014, 09:46:11 PM
Yep, there's no modding support.  In terms of getting a consensus, I don't expect those to be 100%.  I'm not looking to have perfect solutions just handed to me or whatever. :)  But when it comes to trying to condense (literally) 10k-30k+ words per day of forum posts down to a more manageable 1k or 2k, that's really what I'm looking for.
Title: Re: PLEASE REPORT FEEDBACK TO MANTIS IF YOU WANT US TO SEE IT! :)
Post by: Faulty Logic on April 21, 2014, 09:47:47 PM
I assume we're encouraged to vote on TLF mantis issues as well?
Title: Re: PLEASE REPORT FEEDBACK TO MANTIS IF YOU WANT US TO SEE IT! :)
Post by: Lancefighter on April 21, 2014, 09:51:17 PM
Huh is it really only 20-30k words a day? I should get on that..
Title: Re: PLEASE REPORT FEEDBACK TO MANTIS IF YOU WANT US TO SEE IT! :)
Post by: x4000 on April 21, 2014, 10:01:02 PM
I assume we're encouraged to vote on TLF mantis issues as well?

Absolutely!  Feel free to also comment on them to bump them, that's okay with me.

Huh is it really only 20-30k words a day? I should get on that..

I know, I was lowballing it. ;)
Title: Re: PLEASE REPORT FEEDBACK TO MANTIS IF YOU WANT US TO SEE IT! :)
Post by: GC13 on April 21, 2014, 10:04:39 PM
Hey, silly Mantis-related question: why does it think that version 1.002 was released on April 19?
Title: Re: PLEASE REPORT FEEDBACK TO MANTIS IF YOU WANT US TO SEE IT! :)
Post by: x4000 on April 21, 2014, 10:10:31 PM
Hey, silly Mantis-related question: why does it think that version 1.002 was released on April 19?
Does it show that to you?  That's odd.  It is presently logged by when I create the version item in terms of when we START working on a given version, rather than when we finish.  So that's actually always when the prior update came out, the dates are off by one.
Title: Re: PLEASE REPORT FEEDBACK TO MANTIS IF YOU WANT US TO SEE IT! :)
Post by: GC13 on April 21, 2014, 10:15:15 PM
I don't think the previous days are off. 1.0 and 1.001 both show as "Released Apr 18, 2014", but 1.002 shows as "Released Apr 19, 2014".
Title: Re: PLEASE REPORT FEEDBACK TO MANTIS IF YOU WANT US TO SEE IT! :)
Post by: x4000 on April 21, 2014, 10:17:55 PM
I don't think the previous days are off. 1.0 and 1.001 both show as "Released Apr 18, 2014", but 1.002 shows as "Released Apr 19, 2014".

Those are off, too.  1.0 shows as that because when I finished the prior version it was after midnight on the 17th, making it actually the 18th when I technically released it.  1.001, was released on the 19th, not the 18th.
Title: Re: PLEASE REPORT FEEDBACK TO MANTIS IF YOU WANT US TO SEE IT! :)
Post by: topper on April 22, 2014, 10:48:31 AM
I assume we're encouraged to vote on TLF mantis issues as well?

Absolutely!  Feel free to also comment on them to bump them, that's okay with me.

Well, if we are voting for features and top bugs... let me put in an advertisement for my requested feature that I think would be fun  :D
Implement race and player "score" and graphs! (http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/view.php?id=14104)
Title: Re: PLEASE REPORT FEEDBACK TO MANTIS IF YOU WANT US TO SEE IT! :)
Post by: Areliae on April 22, 2014, 09:28:47 PM
I love the game, but towards the late game it literally becomes unplayable due to the lag. Even on TB's megasystem he experienced lag as a result of a ton of unnecessary stuff and poor optimization. Perhaps a feature to disable the visual representation of each armada? That can get ridiculous and can ruin the experience for a lot of people. This type of grand strategy game should not be suffering this sort of performance issues, it is, at it's core, just a game of numbers so some more attention to the performance would be appreciated.
Title: Re: PLEASE REPORT FEEDBACK TO MANTIS IF YOU WANT US TO SEE IT! :)
Post by: Lancefighter on April 22, 2014, 11:03:42 PM
I feel like the problems if anything are going to be cpu-side: As with any sort of heavy simulation game, the number of maths that happens tends to get rather large.

Aiwar doesnt 'lag' because it looks impressive, for instance.. it lags because calculating targets/range/ai for ten thousand ships is kinda hard.

You see the same thing with dwarf fortress.. That game doesnt even HAVE graphics, and it tends to slow down to a halt if you allow cats to get out of control.
Title: Re: PLEASE REPORT FEEDBACK TO MANTIS IF YOU WANT US TO SEE IT! :)
Post by: Areliae on April 23, 2014, 09:43:17 AM
This math should not be a problem on any computer, it's math, it's what computers do. You don't need to calculate a bunch of stuff for 10,000 ships, you just need to add a few multipliers to a few ships which is NOT on the same level. The fact of the matter is that this game runs 10x more poorly than games that SHOULD be far more demanding. Any modern computer should be able to easily handle this type of game, but that's not the case. If the computer can run everything smoothly for the first 3/5ths of the game, I don't see the math being the reason for the lag. All I want is a way to disable the 500 moving ships on the screen, that seems unnecessary and is almost surely the cause for the lag. The calculations are not getting that much bigger, all I want is for the game to be properly optimized because I really do enjoy it.
Title: Re: PLEASE REPORT FEEDBACK TO MANTIS IF YOU WANT US TO SEE IT! :)
Post by: GC13 on April 23, 2014, 09:45:40 AM
The math should not be a problem on any computer, it's math, it's what computers do. The fact of the matter is that this game runs 10x more poorly than games that SHOULD be far more demanding. Any modern computer should be able to easily handle this type of game, but that's not the case.
You should try playing Crusader Kings 2. Math is very much a problem for a computer playing CK2, because of the sheer amount of math the computer is being asked to do. Games like these simulate a whole bunch of stuff, and while you can usually optimize it better that doesn't change the fact that there's still a lot to keep track of.

Now, if the armadas around one planet could be somehow lumped together as one accounting unit, I think a lot of processor time could be freed up without reducing the simulation one bit, but I don't know what kind of stuff the game is keeping track of for them.
Title: Re: PLEASE REPORT FEEDBACK TO MANTIS IF YOU WANT US TO SEE IT! :)
Post by: Histidine on April 23, 2014, 09:50:41 AM
The math should not be a problem on any computer, it's math, it's what computers do.
I once had a weightlifter friend named Bob. One day I asked him "Bob, are heavy weights a problem for you?" "Of course not," he said, "they're what I do." So I dropped an anvil on his head. Everyone found this funny, except Bob, because he was dead. The end.

(no, this didn't actually happen)
Title: Re: PLEASE REPORT FEEDBACK TO MANTIS IF YOU WANT US TO SEE IT! :)
Post by: Areliae on April 23, 2014, 10:09:48 AM
If the game is coded in such a way that the math is THAT intense, far more than other simulation games I have ran, I don't see why having 500 constantly moving ships on the screen at once is a good idea. I'll confess, I don't know enough about game development or how the simulation works to know how much of an issue it is, but at least give us the option to eliminate a, quite obviously, extremely demanding aspect of the game.
Title: Re: PLEASE REPORT FEEDBACK TO MANTIS IF YOU WANT US TO SEE IT! :)
Post by: Areliae on April 23, 2014, 10:59:50 AM
Yes yes, you're all right, the math is math thing was stupid, I get that. But when I'm talking about performance issues I do not mean some slowdown. . .the game literally gets so laggy it becomes unresponsive. Even when paused it often won't even let me click settings because it is running so poorly. There is no situation where a game like this should run THAT badly.
Title: Re: PLEASE REPORT FEEDBACK TO MANTIS IF YOU WANT US TO SEE IT! :)
Post by: Areliae on April 23, 2014, 11:25:43 AM
Also I should note, the amount of work my computer has to do is irrelevant to whether or not this is a serious problem. The system requirements are BELOW what I have, meaning that the devs are either being dishonest with them, did not bother to test it at all, or there is something super duper special wrong with my computer. They are expecting people to make a purchase decision based off of incorrect information, and that in unacceptable.
Title: Re: PLEASE REPORT FEEDBACK TO MANTIS IF YOU WANT US TO SEE IT! :)
Post by: eRe4s3r on April 23, 2014, 12:12:19 PM
Sidenote: There is no such thing as a "mega system" single thread, single core. Will always be a bottleneck on CPU's.

That said, the game could do with optimization and ABSTRACTION in late game. Ie. what AI war does to prevent 500000 ships appearing, needs to be done for TLF too. We don't need to see 60000 armada's, the game should abstract them to a super armada, or a uber armada. So that 500 turn to 5...
Title: Re: PLEASE REPORT FEEDBACK TO MANTIS IF YOU WANT US TO SEE IT! :)
Post by: pepboy on April 24, 2014, 03:11:04 PM

Absolutely!  Feel free to also comment on them to bump them, that's okay with me.


Just curious because I'm new to mantis, I notice there are "Feature for Later", "Acknowledged", "Confirmed," and other statuses I don't see very often.  Most tickets seem to be either "New", "Assigned","Resolved", with some "Considering", etc.  Should we assume that (almost) every ticket is read, but there are too many to change every ticket to the most appropriate status? Or is it more a matter that the volume of tickets makes it too difficult to read them all?  Or is it more like every "new" ticket is still looking for feedback from other community members?  I find myself commenting on tickets  where it's unclear if you've already seen them and decided against, merely missed, or are looking for more feedback.
Title: Re: PLEASE REPORT FEEDBACK TO MANTIS IF YOU WANT US TO SEE IT! :)
Post by: BobTheJanitor on April 24, 2014, 03:37:49 PM
From past experience, they will eventually look at everything as time allows. I don't recall any tickets of mine that have just withered away without notice. At the moment I'm sure they're having to do triage and the bugs are going to get more attention than the feature requests, and the wild pie-in-the-sky ideas aren't going to get much attention for a while. But everything eventually gets some attention, even if it's just a working as intended won'tfix resolution.

Edit: curse you phone typos
Title: Re: PLEASE REPORT FEEDBACK TO MANTIS IF YOU WANT US TO SEE IT! :)
Post by: pepboy on April 24, 2014, 03:42:42 PM
From past experience, they will eventually look at everything as time allows. I don't recall any tickets of mine that have just withered away without notice. At the moment I'm sure they're having to do triage and the bugs are going to get more attention than the feature requests, and the wild pie-in-the-any ideas aren't going to get much attention for a while. But everything eventually gets some attention, even if it's just a working as intended won'tfix resolution.

Ah I see.  Thanks, I wasn't sure if the issues were effectively closed / dismissed or if it was more a matter of time.  In that case I'll keep adding feedback to older (but still tagged "new") issues.  Appreciate the feedback.
Title: Re: PLEASE REPORT FEEDBACK TO MANTIS IF YOU WANT US TO SEE IT! :)
Post by: Mick on April 24, 2014, 03:47:44 PM
From past experience, they will eventually look at everything as time allows. I don't recall any tickets of mine that have just withered away without notice. At the moment I'm sure they're having to do triage and the bugs are going to get more attention than the feature requests, and the wild pie-in-the-any ideas aren't going to get much attention for a while. But everything eventually gets some attention, even if it's just a working as intended won'tfix resolution.

Ah I see.  Thanks, I wasn't sure if the issues were effectively closed / dismissed or if it was more a matter of time.  In that case I'll keep adding feedback to older (but still tagged "new") issues.  Appreciate the feedback.

Adding feedback does increase visibility, and I think even acknowledging that an old bug still occurs in the latest version can be helpful (especially with an updated save).
Title: Re: PLEASE REPORT FEEDBACK TO MANTIS IF YOU WANT US TO SEE IT! :)
Post by: mrhanman on April 24, 2014, 06:19:38 PM
From past experience, they will eventually look at everything as time allows. I don't recall any tickets of mine that have just withered away without notice. At the moment I'm sure they're having to do triage and the bugs are going to get more attention than the feature requests, and the wild pie-in-the-sky ideas aren't going to get much attention for a while. But everything eventually gets some attention, even if it's just a working as intended won'tfix resolution.

Edit: curse you phone typos

I still have an unresolved Tidalis bug.  :'(

 ;D :P
Title: Re: PLEASE REPORT FEEDBACK TO MANTIS IF YOU WANT US TO SEE IT! :)
Post by: BobTheJanitor on April 24, 2014, 06:21:39 PM
Yeah, about that...

Maybe I should have amended my statement to say any ticket on a game that's actually being worked on.
Title: Re: PLEASE REPORT FEEDBACK TO MANTIS IF YOU WANT US TO SEE IT! :)
Post by: Areliae on April 30, 2014, 03:25:31 AM
First off I really like what the recent patches have done, but there are a few frustrating issues that I think should be looked at. For one thing, I had a game where I had skylaxians and the owls in the federation, but they were behaving in a really stupid fashion. The skylaxians were in a war with the evuks and the acutians, the skylaxians had more poewr than both of them combined but they refused to protect their planet. The acutians were attacking the skylaxians main planet but the entire skylaxian fleet was trying to take over an evuk planet, making little progress. Eventually the skylaxian planet got wiped out because there was no one defending it, leading to a lost game. I'm just suggesting that you look into improving the ai a little bit, those kinds of things can be frustrating. My second point may be intended, but the species in the federation do not defend each other. In that same game the pelitians (or something like that) had a gigantic fleet, but wouldn't defend their allies. Creating a federation seems like it doesn't do much outside of the victory condition, they members do not act like they are part of a group. These are just a few issues I have seen, not gamebreaking but I think they could be improved.
Title: Re: PLEASE REPORT FEEDBACK TO MANTIS IF YOU WANT US TO SEE IT! :)
Post by: wwwhhattt on May 01, 2014, 03:41:24 PM
Is there any way to search mantis for similar posts? Just in case the stuff I want to put in is already there.
If there is it isn't obvious (actually it might be, but still).

Edit: Found it.
Title: Re: PLEASE REPORT FEEDBACK TO MANTIS IF YOU WANT US TO SEE IT! :)
Post by: MaskityMask on May 10, 2014, 01:40:59 AM
So out of curiosity, what do you guys think of my two suggestion mantises? http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/view.php?id=15003 and this http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/view.php?id=15004

And yes, I play Dwarf Fortress and enjoy when surprisingly things go horribly wrong :p Besides, while I think these events shouldn't be too common, they are nowadays so rare that they might as well not exist. Like requirements for Ultimate buildings, I've been purposely trying to get races build them, but they never seem to have option...(I think ultimate buildings need similar "Big image pops up with computer talking nervously" scenes btw. Just so that when they DO happen that player notices it and knows what the heck is going on)
Title: Re: PLEASE REPORT FEEDBACK TO MANTIS IF YOU WANT US TO SEE IT! :)
Post by: seebs on August 01, 2014, 05:48:05 PM
I started a thread on this before realizing this was a replyable thread:

As of recentlyish, I tried to register for Mantis, but the outgoing mail is tagged as being From "[email protected]", which my mail server rejects because it won't take mail from a domain which can't receive mail, and @example.com is such a domain.
Title: Re: PLEASE REPORT FEEDBACK TO MANTIS IF YOU WANT US TO SEE IT! :)
Post by: crushcommando on September 28, 2014, 10:57:33 PM
Hey i really need some help, during 1 campaign I've had an error and crashed roughly 4-5 times. I don't know whats causing it but it says i should have files containing the issue ( i thought i was supposed to delete them so i did it didn't fix it) it happened again and i think i have a different file saying unhandled errors. I love this game to death but these constant errors are getting really irritating and help would be appreciated.
Title: Re: PLEASE REPORT FEEDBACK TO MANTIS IF YOU WANT US TO SEE IT! :)
Post by: bobtheaverage on April 26, 2015, 05:03:34 PM
This math should not be a problem on any computer, it's math, it's what computers do. You don't need to calculate a bunch of stuff for 10,000 ships, you just need to add a few multipliers to a few ships which is NOT on the same level. The fact of the matter is that this game runs 10x more poorly than games that SHOULD be far more demanding. Any modern computer should be able to easily handle this type of game, but that's not the case. If the computer can run everything smoothly for the first 3/5ths of the game, I don't see the math being the reason for the lag. All I want is a way to disable the 500 moving ships on the screen, that seems unnecessary and is almost surely the cause for the lag. The calculations are not getting that much bigger, all I want is for the game to be properly optimized because I really do enjoy it.

Optimization is A LOT OF WORK. Go optimize some code and then tell me that Chris doesn't have better things to make his people do. On http://arcengames.com/about-us/ I am counting 6 team members for everything. I would like SBR published sometime in the near future thanks.
Title: Re: PLEASE REPORT FEEDBACK TO MANTIS IF YOU WANT US TO SEE IT! :)
Post by: Teal_Blue on April 27, 2015, 07:58:58 PM
This math should not be a problem on any computer, it's math, it's what computers do. You don't need to calculate a bunch of stuff for 10,000 ships, you just need to add a few multipliers to a few ships which is NOT on the same level. The fact of the matter is that this game runs 10x more poorly than games that SHOULD be far more demanding. Any modern computer should be able to easily handle this type of game, but that's not the case. If the computer can run everything smoothly for the first 3/5ths of the game, I don't see the math being the reason for the lag. All I want is a way to disable the 500 moving ships on the screen, that seems unnecessary and is almost surely the cause for the lag. The calculations are not getting that much bigger, all I want is for the game to be properly optimized because I really do enjoy it.

Optimization is A LOT OF WORK. Go optimize some code and then tell me that Chris doesn't have better things to make his people do. On http://arcengames.com/about-us/ I am counting 6 team members for everything. I would like SBR published sometime in the near future thanks.

I think she meant TLF, not SBR, also your suggestion on optimizing code is well taken, but not really realistic. Players seldom have the understanding, and certainly not the patience. And her suggestion for TLF to be optimized is not an unreasonable one.
The fact that Chris and company are in the middle of SBR might mean us waiting for the issues in TLF to be addressed sometime after launch on SBR, but as long as we know that technical issues will be looked into i think it would appease almost all of us, all except the fanatics.
Anyway, good to see SBR coming along nicely with lovely art and bug fixes and updates, and it is 'very-very'  wonderful to see people interested in one of the 'older' games. Some games get finished and don't do well and fall off the radar completely it seems. It is wonderful to see TLF having discussions and players and comments by people who feel they like the game well enough to ask for fixes, instead of just dissing the game as some devs and other games get.
Anyway, just wanted to put in my support for Areliae and to say it is wonderful to see active posts for TLF, it is a wonderful game, but one that regularly kicks my 'bleep', because i am not a real good player. But it is wonderful to see it getting attention.  :) 

Thank you for listening,
Sincerely,
-Teal

Title: Re: PLEASE REPORT FEEDBACK TO MANTIS IF YOU WANT US TO SEE IT! :)
Post by: HKO2006 on August 28, 2015, 12:40:05 PM
Just finished my first playthrough with Harder & Harder, ironman without permadeath, got blown like 5/6 times through out the game.

Feedback
Dueling Burlusts lords can be harder, I beat the prime lord out right at the start.
When I was delivering spacefaring tech, the droppoint always spawn between me and the spy probes wall so I can just run straight to it.
Subtitles for voice please.

Bugs
In friendly action, the 'help expanding usable land' said 700 credit per month but when I clicked it, it said 2000.
In planet details, the 'planet type' is in right instead of left.
Got achievement '... RRRR?' (Win a game in which no pirate bases were destroyed.) even I destroyed 10 of them.
Got achievement 'Man, Er, Hydral Of Its Word(s?)' Win a game without ever failing a contract. I didn't notice I ever did one contract.
Title: Re: PLEASE REPORT FEEDBACK TO MANTIS IF YOU WANT US TO SEE IT! :)
Post by: Mahboii on May 09, 2016, 02:11:37 PM
Where does the game put save game files? Would like to attach one to a bug report.
Title: Re: PLEASE REPORT FEEDBACK TO MANTIS IF YOU WANT US TO SEE IT! :)
Post by: x4000 on May 09, 2016, 02:23:43 PM
Under [Game Install Location]/RuntimeData/Save
Title: Re: PLEASE REPORT FEEDBACK TO MANTIS IF YOU WANT US TO SEE IT! :)
Post by: ricardol on May 08, 2017, 05:34:38 AM
Under [Game Install Location]/RuntimeData/Save

Thanks for this :) was also having the same problem