New version .812 now out! (Improved TBS Combat Balance, Solar Map Balance, etc)

[keith.lamothe]

Is it perhaps worthwhile to have dispatches, instead of showing the dispatch-progress window, just let the normal map show with the normal time controls (plus the ultra-fast-forward that's usually not shown there)?  That way you can be doing something while you watch, but not be limited to the text-only stream.

[x4000]

Yeah, I think that's a super good idea, actually.  I will work on the interface for that.

[Mick]

It makes sense for dispatches to advance time, but when I'm trying to figure out what planet I want to visit next, I never want time to go by (I'm assuming my character dude is not going to take days to chart a course).

If it's a mode I have to turn on, I can be happy with that. I can only speak toward what I like, not everyone else, but I suspect not having it real time by default would be less daunting to a new player who is trying to figure out what the hell is going on.

[x4000]

but I suspect not having it real time by default would be less daunting to a new player who is trying to figure out what the hell is going on.

Right, this is a biggie.  There were several points of confusion about this in earlier versions of testing.  If we shift around dispatches to work as Keith suggests, then the feeling of being part of a living solar system doesn't go away, but at the same time you are accomplishing something.  So that would be really good.

[Kingpin23]

Not to forget to mention when you turn the solar map in a turn based game you and your flagship will
Become the center of the universe. So when you move everything in solar system will move and the game
will turn more into one big puzzle game

[x4000]

Sigh.  That will feel incredibly odd, yeah.  Obviously I'm waffling back and forth here.  Having Mick's thing as an option seems like a clear thing to do, but having it as the default... very much less clear of a thing to do.

[GenScorpius]

I personally would prefer to keep it real time with a play/pause toggle via space bar similar to the paradox games... so if you need a break to think about your next move you can pause otherwise it's a nice flowing simulation.

just my 2 cent 

[keith.lamothe]

Yea, the paradox approach of having a game speed setting (set to either pause, 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5; with 1 being very slow and 5 looking like it's going about as fast as it can) works very well for their grand strategy stuff.  Though their stuff is actually a series of discrete steps (measured in days in most of them, and in hours in Hearts of Iron, iirc), with no actual sim stuff happening inbetween those steps.  That I could see, anyhow.

[x4000]

I personally would prefer to keep it real time with a play/pause toggle via space bar similar to the paradox games... so if you need a break to think about your next move you can pause otherwise it's a nice flowing simulation.

just my 2 cent 

Good to know -- that will probably be what we keep as the default, from what folks are saying.  But in this case having Mick's alternate mode won't take me long to do, and it will probably make some other folks happy, too, based on commentary about auto-pausing after combat, etc, in a few mantis tickets.

[chemical_art]

Yea, the paradox approach of having a game speed setting (set to either pause, 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5; with 1 being very slow and 5 looking like it's going about as fast as it can) works very well for their grand strategy stuff.  Though their stuff is actually a series of discrete steps (measured in days in most of them, and in hours in Hearts of Iron, iirc), with no actual sim stuff happening inbetween those steps.  That I could see, anyhow.

I'll echo that among grand strategy games, this method seems to be the norm. If you are trying to appeal to the grand strategy crowd, best to stick with what works.

(Back to Communist China circa 1938)

[Riabi]

Chris... you and I spent a LOT of time going over whether or not this should be turn-based or real time, and, I have to say, I think, in the end, you might have been right on the combat needing to be turn-based. But, with everything going on in the meta game, I think if you make it turn based it will feel like a chits-on-hexes war/board game. Even if you don't actually move every piece in this game like you do those games, I suspect it will still have a smilar feel, and players will want to check on every little thing, even though all that info isn't necessary all the time. IMO, use the tried and true Paradox method.

[Teal_Blue]

... Solar map:  Non-spacefaring races are a bit of a problem.  Bad stuff happens to them.... either they get attacked (frequent) or they get some horrible disease (not AS frequent, but still often enough), or something like that, and because they're not spacefaring yet, there's nothing that can be done.  They can get wrecked before they're even fully in the game, so to speak.  In addition, races that become spacefaring very late are bound to get wrecked as well, as they wont have the strength to defend themselves.  This is the biggest balance issue I'm aware of so far, particularly considering that spacefaring races are often attacking other planets very early in the game.

Just an idea i think may work... is to have the races all neutral to each other at the beginning... and then as they become space faring also stay neutral... for xx time (perhaps until 3/4 of them are space faring?) and then the other races that are space faring start to form alliances and trade agreements, and disputes and stand offs... and then out-right wars. But have it happen gradually, instead of very soon. Also if a race has to be space faring for xx time before having small disputes and then medium and then large disputes leading to war would give everyone time to get their feet under them, so to speak. And it would leave the non-space faring races out of the picture completely (not being bombed into oblivion before they make it into space.) 

Sound OK?
-Teal

-edited- Oh, i see this has already been taken care of. Wow that was quick!  Haha Arcen back on track!

[Mick]

I am a big fan of Paradox games, but what stands out for me is not that they are real time, but that I can configure it to auto-pause on many events. I'm never making strategic decisions in a Paradox game while it's not paused. So to me, the "Paradox method" would be allowing the user to have it auto-pause after a battle, auto-pause when arriving at a planet...

[Teal_Blue]

This is just an opinion Mick, but i'm not sure with the auto-pause. I mean i can really see me pausing things myself, whenever i want, but i'm not to keen on having the game pause for me at set points. Just my opinion though.

-Teal

[Mick]

I'm not saying it shouldn't be optional.

I think it's a little ironic that many here are using Paradox as a example to support no-pause, when Paradox games are what I was thinking when I asked for pause to begin with!