Author Topic: My armies have a terrifying and debilitating fear of victory.  (Read 6125 times)

Offline Hartmann

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 58
Re: My armies have a terrifying and debilitating fear of victory.
« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2014, 11:33:35 am »
The main mechanic missing is that orbital bombardment should lower planet stats in addition to killing population.

Yeah, because unless the aliens are using special chemical bomb that only kill citizen while letting the wild life untouched, that doesn't really make sense.
And everyone knows that a bomb usually doesn't kill people by letting the place intact. I tried blowing something up yesterday, and, would you believe, I no longer have a oak in my backyard now.

But what about invasions?
This is the part where I quote someone in an attempt to look clever? Nah, too mainstream. I used signatures before it was cool.

Offline RockyBst

  • Full Member Mark III
  • ***
  • Posts: 219
Re: My armies have a terrifying and debilitating fear of victory.
« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2014, 12:09:50 pm »
Bribing the Acturians to dump a couple million tons of toxic waste on a planet helps considerably with population decimation.

There's also an 'orbital bomber' special ability, although I'm not sure it ever really made much on an impact when I used it in anti-federation / convoy raid missions.

Offline keith.lamothe

  • Arcen Games Staff
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,505
Re: My armies have a terrifying and debilitating fear of victory.
« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2014, 12:37:06 pm »
Wow, 17 million power in orbit and that's _not enough_?  Goodness.

Yea, RCI damage may be necessary.  Possibly even permanent compatibility damage (for everyone, unless some race particularly likes living in glass craters) ;)
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games? Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline GC13

  • Full Member Mark III
  • ***
  • Posts: 204
Re: My armies have a terrifying and debilitating fear of victory.
« Reply #18 on: April 21, 2014, 12:46:33 pm »
How does the game resolve peace talks between species? Because while it's obvious that such a huge death ball should be able to wipe out its target if it chooses, I've seen species go and destroy each other just out of the clear blue sky. Now, one might have been vulnerable, but it only took a few tens of thousands of fleet power. If destroying a planet was difficult (the ion cannons should do a lot more damage if the fleets are attacking), and peace talks worth while, it might be easier to broker a peace before you were down one species in your potential federation.

I think you're right, though: bombardment rendering a planet useless for quite a while (very negative economy, quite negative environmental) to the conqueror would go a long way (gotta risk those ground troops to get anything out of the deal).
Furthermore, it is my opinion that Hari must be destroyed.

Offline keith.lamothe

  • Arcen Games Staff
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,505
Re: My armies have a terrifying and debilitating fear of victory.
« Reply #19 on: April 21, 2014, 12:52:02 pm »
How does the game resolve peace talks between species?
Basically it will only maintain an attack for a certain number of years, and then figures it should just go do something else.  Of course "something else" may be "attack that planet again".

There are also a few different truce conditions that can be met (which end hostilities and generally prevent their resumption for a while), largely relating to both sides being exhausted.

There's also a surrender condition where a race can just give up a planet if it sees no hope of victory (though iirc Thoraxians never accept surrender, preferring lunch).  In this case they saw hope, and actually had hope (with the mechanics as they are), but realistically probably shouldn't have been able to hold up under all that.
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games? Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline Hyfrydle

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 587
Re: My armies have a terrifying and debilitating fear of victory.
« Reply #20 on: April 21, 2014, 12:52:08 pm »
Under pressure like this would the race not just cave in and offer to join the federation to allow themselves to survive?

Offline keith.lamothe

  • Arcen Games Staff
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,505
Re: My armies have a terrifying and debilitating fear of victory.
« Reply #21 on: April 21, 2014, 12:58:08 pm »
Under pressure like this would the race not just cave in and offer to join the federation to allow themselves to survive?
If they were actually in that kind of danger, there is a surrender condition that might be triggered.  The problem being reported here (if I'm understanding this correctly) is that they are _not_ in that kind of danger because they can simply outbreed a dark-sky-fleet orbital bombardment :)
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games? Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline GC13

  • Full Member Mark III
  • ***
  • Posts: 204
Re: My armies have a terrifying and debilitating fear of victory.
« Reply #22 on: April 21, 2014, 01:08:57 pm »
I hope they're not outbreeding it...

That's another thing: I've seen that species seem to populate their planets very rapidly. I guess it would be no fun sticking to realistic growth numbers, but even taking ten years to double your population would be pretty quick. Ten of OUR years anyway. If one of their months is one of ours, that gets us down to six years.

What's the surrender condition if it's their homeworld? Do they simply become minority citizens, or is there some force-vassal-relationship thing?
Furthermore, it is my opinion that Hari must be destroyed.

Offline AcidWeb

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 127
Re: My armies have a terrifying and debilitating fear of victory.
« Reply #23 on: April 21, 2014, 01:09:51 pm »
Well it this case I think they should die as planet is already frozen solid due to complete lack of sunlight :-D


Offline Ramarren

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3
Re: My armies have a terrifying and debilitating fear of victory.
« Reply #24 on: April 21, 2014, 01:12:04 pm »
It seems to me that the core problem for this and similar fleet combat issue, where planets build armadas faster than they are destroyed, is that damage is more or less linear in time, and since it has to be slow enough for the player to react, it can well be too slow to overcame breeding/construction.

The way I believe would work much better if there were phases, like preparation/skirmish phase, where forces gather but nothing much happens, and then a battle/invasion phase where everything dies in a few solar days. With a player visible counter until phase change even, to reduce confusion. And if the skirmishing phase has an actual effect, like creating force multipliers for the actual battle, it would give player something to do other than charging headlong into the blob.

Offline GC13

  • Full Member Mark III
  • ***
  • Posts: 204
Re: My armies have a terrifying and debilitating fear of victory.
« Reply #25 on: April 21, 2014, 01:16:01 pm »
Well it this case I think they should die as planet is already frozen solid due to complete lack of sunlight :-D
Look at that economy score: they're probably manufacturing atmospheric photon distributors quicker than the invaders can shoot them down.
Furthermore, it is my opinion that Hari must be destroyed.

Offline rocmat1

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3
Re: My armies have a terrifying and debilitating fear of victory.
« Reply #26 on: April 21, 2014, 03:59:01 pm »
Yeah I have this problem to it is ridiculous this mechanic really needs some work.

Offline Azurian

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 120
  • Space is a beautiful place
Re: My armies have a terrifying and debilitating fear of victory.
« Reply #27 on: April 21, 2014, 04:10:44 pm »
Has this been mantised,  I will vote it as strong support.
PLEASE REPORT FEEDBACK TO MANTIS IF YOU WANT THEM TO SEE IT!
http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/view_all_bug_page.php

Offline keith.lamothe

  • Arcen Games Staff
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,505
Re: My armies have a terrifying and debilitating fear of victory.
« Reply #28 on: April 21, 2014, 04:12:08 pm »
It's at the top of the list of stuff Chris asked me to do:

"
- Major wonkiness with solar map 900 armada mass attacking planet and making no progress.
-- Additionally the race is trying to build more buildings than it is allowed to (for ion cannons) and failing.
-- Birth AND death rate on the planet are zero?
-- http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/view.php?id=14293
-- Related, the population on the planet in this save is not falling at all either, despite attacks:
--- http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/view.php?id=14316
"

Just finishing up fixing the last bug I was working on first :)
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games? Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline Orelius

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 328
Re: My armies have a terrifying and debilitating fear of victory.
« Reply #29 on: April 21, 2014, 04:22:09 pm »
This problem is partially why I almost always try to get the acutians on my side; launching planetcrackers at those defiant planets is sadly necessary  :-[.