Federation point : this is a mistake, they need to go away.

[Hyfrydle]

Won't influence restrictions mean that most federations are going to consist of the same races the easiest to convince. Perhaps a better idea may be to change the influence restriction based on the actual races in the federation.

[GC13]

Won't influence restrictions mean that most federations are going to consist of the same races the easiest to convince. Perhaps a better idea may be to change the influence restriction based on the actual races in the federation.

Sort of like a table where you look up the current Federation members on the Y axis and compare them to the member who you want to have join on the X axis to see what the modifier for required-Influence is?

[x4000]

Won't influence restrictions mean that most federations are going to consist of the same races the easiest to convince. Perhaps a better idea may be to change the influence restriction based on the actual races in the federation.

Yep, I like it:

* The influence requirements for convincing races to join the federation are now altered by which races are already in the federation (these are all cumulative):
** Acutians: -50 if Boarines in, -100 if Burlusts, -100 if Thoraxians.
** Andors: -50 if Boarines in, -100 if Peltians in, -100 if Skylaxians in, +100 if Burlusts, +100 if Thoraxians.
** Boarines: -25 if Andors in, -25 if Evucks in, -25 if Skylaxians in.
** Burlusts: -100 if Acutians in, +100 if Andors or Peltians, -50 if Boarines, -75 if Evucks in, -200 if Thoraxians in.
** Evucks: -50 if Boarines in, -100 if Skylaxians in, +100 if Burlusts or Thoraxians in.
** Peltians: -50 if Boarines in, -100 if Andors in, -100 if Skylaxians in, +100 if Burlusts, +100 if Thoraxians.
** Thoraxians: -50 if Boarines in, -100 if Acutians, Evucks, or Burlusts in, +150 if Skylaxians in, +50 if Peltians or Andors in.
** Skylaxians: -100 if Andors or Peltians in, +300 if Burlusts in, +100 if Acutians, Evucks, or Thoraxians in.

[Hyfrydle]

Cool hopefully if it will mix things up a bit and with the influence affects from wars etc even more unpredictability will be created.

Races should only really join the federation if it gives them some kind of benefit.

Quests that affect the players influence to the different races will also add more to the mix. Ideally there should be no optimal route to creating a federation and once created it should be a challenge to keep the federation together.

[NickAragua]

I definitely like the idea of contextually appropriate actions to get guys into the federation.

I'd love to see some implementation of a scenario where you (as the Hydral) convince a non-federation race to go to war with another non-federation race, then go to the second race and say "Hey, you know guys, this kind of stuff wouldn't happen if you were to join the federation".

Or an option to get a bunch of federation members to dogpile on a race and if their homeworld is getting beaten to a pulp you can give them the option to surrender.

[Conductorbosh]

Chris, loving these plans.

Context-specific actions would be incredible. The Race's AI surely knows when it's low on resources, when it's running out of ships, or when one of their enemies is prepping for war. Why not have them mention those things and ask for help? "The Boarines hate our people, and though they have not declared war their military power far eclipses our own. Maybe if you were to do..." Then you could kill the boarines, OR whittle down their military OR just improve their relationship to the first race. Whatever removes that situation (the boarines hate us and have more ships than us)

Or even the inverse: they tell you they're doing extremely well and have no need to join. That's when you need to sneakily knock them down a couple pegs.

[jonasan]

you got to love the Arcen way! truly listening to feedback, thinking about it, changing the plan and acting on it rather rapidly!

how many devs can you say that about

[lifehole]

Haha, yeah, they even give credit for the feedback in the patch notes! I swear, some of the nicest devs ever; glad I bought this game.

[casualsax]

Won't influence restrictions mean that most federations are going to consist of the same races the easiest to convince. Perhaps a better idea may be to change the influence restriction based on the actual races in the federation.

Yep, I like it:

* The influence requirements for convincing races to join the federation are now altered by which races are already in the federation (these are all cumulative):
** Acutians: -50 if Boarines in, -100 if Burlusts, -100 if Thoraxians.
** Andors: -50 if Boarines in, -100 if Peltians in, -100 if Skylaxians in, +100 if Burlusts, +100 if Thoraxians.
** Boarines: -25 if Andors in, -25 if Evucks in, -25 if Skylaxians in.
** Burlusts: -100 if Acutians in, +100 if Andors or Peltians, -50 if Boarines, -75 if Evucks in, -200 if Thoraxians in.
** Evucks: -50 if Boarines in, -100 if Skylaxians in, +100 if Burlusts or Thoraxians in.
** Peltians: -50 if Boarines in, -100 if Andors in, -100 if Skylaxians in, +100 if Burlusts, +100 if Thoraxians.
** Thoraxians: -50 if Boarines in, -100 if Acutians, Evucks, or Burlusts in, +150 if Skylaxians in, +50 if Peltians or Andors in.
** Skylaxians: -100 if Andors or Peltians in, +300 if Burlusts in, +100 if Acutians, Evucks, or Thoraxians in.

Shouldn't the modifications be based on the race's current relationships to each other?  If the Burlusts and Thoraxians love each other, why would they be so opposed to being in the same federation?  I feel like if you can make two races like each other, over time, they'd overcome their differences and hold hands.  Likewise if two races have been enemies since year one, it is doubtful they'd get together.

(Edited out the part about basing directly on relationship status, after re-reading the first page)

[ptarth]

I don't think pursuing this change is productive at this point in development. The required influence relationship values for Federating will be based upon the desired game length. That is, if Arcen wants to make the game last 50 years on average, then these values will be changed to reflect the average growth of relationships over that period of time. However, the underlying mechanics of the race relationships are still needing to be modified, so any change and balance performed here, will need to be recalculated after the underlying mechanics are reshaped. Hence, spending time and effort on them now will be wasted, because everything will have to be redone again later.

If you really want to do it then, why not something simpler and more organic, just use the sum of the influence of each race in the Federation to the race looking to join. So if the Skylaxians are considering joining the Federation containing the Boarines (+100), the Peltians (+30), and the Burlusts (-230), then current Federation summed relationship to the Skylaxians would be -100 (100 + 30 - 230).  You would then need 100 Influence with the Skylaxians to get them to consider joining the Federation. (the average of Federation race relations might also work).

This could also be done both ways, so Federation wide decisions could be made at some points, if the Federation has a -100 relationship with a race, they probably would want to tariff them,  raid them, war with them, etc.

To get the other effect, just modify starting race relationships. For example the Skylaxians and Burlusts start at -200 relationship status. Or, better yet, just have the Burlusts and Skylaxians have a negative monthly relationship modifier. So if the Burlusts are being warlike (Blasted Burlust sum are just evil.) then Skylaxian relationships drop. And if the Burlusts are being neutral, they still drop (We can't trust those guys, everyone knows what they are like). But if the Burlusts are being really nice, then you can overcome then natural negative relationship trend and eventually get them to be friends (They control their violent natures, such a race would be a good friend).

[Conductorbosh]

Also, shouldn't a race's reticence or willingness to join the federation (because of other races) be dynamic based on their like/influence of the race + some static positive/negative points for general opinion of the race, instead of being based 100% on a static number?

[kasnavada]

So much other ideas since I last logged in this forum...

Anyway, thanks for looking at this. I'll read the thread fully and answer if needed later.