Author Topic: Best allies for the Federation  (Read 2626 times)

Offline TheDarkMaster

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Best allies for the Federation
« on: June 13, 2014, 11:43:18 am »
This topic is basically an examination of which races are the best ones to have as allies.  Both for the actions they let you do, and the benefits you get for having them in the federation.

Andors: Andors have a lot of neat actions, and are relatively easy to get into the federation.  They give lots of ways to boost the planet stats of other races and a backdoor into getting the Acutians into the federation (which might be broken, I don't see the option in their political actions).  Unfortunately, they offer no warmongering options and can only offer some of their bonuses at any given time.  Thankfully, those are fairly easy to change around.

Skylaxians: The Skylaxians are sort of an all round race.  You can pretty much get them to do anything you want at any time for cheep.  They're also really easy to boost influence with and get into the federation.  I've generally found that you're almost certainly going to be either forming the federation with them, or getting them in it right away.  They're only real special action is that they can backdoor any other race into the federation.  Military wise, these guys tend to be one of the strongest too.

Peltians: I've found that the Peltians are almost identical to the Skylaxians, other then that they have a unique currency.  Their only real special power is to create the federation for safety, but since the Peltians, Skylaxians, and Andors are really easy to get into the federation anyway, it will almost certainly be faster to create the federation with two of the others, then bring the third one in after the fact.  Bring em in, or kill them, and after that you probably won't notice the difference.

Evucks: These guys are designed to be annoying to deal with no mater whether you're going to make friends with them or fight them.  They have higher costs to do thing then the other races, which get even higher the more you do with them, and can take out a third of the solar system if you try to kill them.  Even their bribing system is a pain to play with.  On the up side, they have some nice powers that let you ruin enemy planets quite effectively.

Acutians: These guys have the most options and powers of any race in the entire game.  They can destroy planets, damage other planet's environment or economy, and even backdoor other races into the federation!  The downside is that they can only do a handful of them at any given time.  If you want to manipulate what is available, you're going to need to control a construction outpost.  That said, this manipulation will quickly get you all the influence you could ever need with them.  These are probably my most recommended ally, given just how much they can do for you.

Burlusts: A very meh race.  They've got their own currency, like the peltians, but very few special options for them other then ways to get that currency.  Once more, they've got a special federation creation decision, though how useful it is to use depends very much on the game.  You're going to need some great trading opportunities to make it worth while over just creating the federation with two races and then bringing the third in later.  They actually have fewer actions you can take with them then all other races and you're very unlikely to notice a difference when you have or don't have them in the federation.

Boarines: They've got most of the same options as the Skylaxians and Peltians, except that you can only do certain ones at certain times.  Very annoying to deal with, and the only unique power they bring to the table is the ability to make two other races either like each other more or like each other less.  This is certainly a useful power, if you've got the skylaxians or acutians to bring other races into the federation with.  Unfortunately, they end up being rather underwhelming when compared to even the basic races, since what you can and can't do with them at any given time is so limited.

Thoraxians: These guys are just a pain.  You can't form the federation with them, they're really tough to get into the federation, and if you do get them into the federation, everyone else starts liking you less and less over time.  They give you no real powers or benefits, and have a somewhat annoying system for locking out what is available and not available at any given time.  Thankfully, it's much easier to manipulate then the Boarine's system.  Even worse, their options are only slightly better then the boarines, with no real special actions.  Unless you're trying to get every race into the federation, you may as well kill these guys.

Overall, my rankings are:

Acutians > Andors > Skylaxians > Evucks > Boarines > Peltians > Burlusts > Thoraxians

I think it would be really nice if Arcen could add some more special actions to the races that have so few options, mainly the Thoraxians, Burlusts, and Peltians.  Though one or two more powers for the Skylaxians and Boarines would be nice too.


What do you guys think?  Do you agree with my assessment?  Have I forgotten anything?  Do you think others are more useful for different reasons?  Anything you think that could be added to make certain races more interesting and better allies?
« Last Edit: June 13, 2014, 11:53:18 am by TheDarkMaster »

Offline x4000

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Re: Best allies for the Federation
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2014, 11:50:17 am »
In general I agree with what you're saying.  That said, for the Burlusts and the Thoraxians, don't forget that those guys kind of act as a military shield.  They don't really give you much in the way of options per se, but they can act well in terms of helping you defend other allies if they are sufficiently built up.  Additionally if you are not trying to have a universal federation of all the races, then they can be super useful for capturing the planets of other races.  So while they are underwhelming politically (by design -- they are just not very politically-minded, and the Boarines are so isolationist it's pretty much the same thing), they do have a lot of military uses.

The Peltians are kind of supposed to be the stinky race that is less useful than all the others.  The upside is that they are super easy to deal with, so if you want to form a federation early you can do so.  Then of course you're stuck with their dead weight, and some of the more powerful races start scorning you because of them.

In general my goal was not to make all races equal, or equally useful, but to have them really have different niches based on your goals at the time.  That said, having something where you always do XYZ is definitely also the goal, so I'm not saying no adjustments are needed or would ever happen.  But I'd like to further reinforce their specific intended roles, rather than kind of making them trend towards the center, if that makes sense.

I'm definitely open to giving them some new political actions that help bring them in that direction as part of the new 2.0 features.  Suggestions from folks are welcome. :)
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Offline TheDarkMaster

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Re: Best allies for the Federation
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2014, 12:11:48 pm »
Hmm, one thought that comes to mind for the Burlusts might be actions for protecting trade or hunting pirates.  The first builds up goodwill between them and any races that are trading and helps prevent pirates attacking convoys (something that could just happen more and more often as pirates become more prevalent).  The second would slow the rate at which pirates appear and grow in power.  In the same vain, they might have the option to raid trading convoys or colonized moons to steal resources.  These could even be things you could get secondary warlords to do for you.  If they're in the federation, they might patrol federation trade routs automatically.

For the Thoraxians, how about sending soldiers to planets to help pacify unrest and revolters?  Possibly also something for eliminating smugglers.  They could be the only race that actually has an alternative method then you attacking them personally.  Just having them in the federation could also boost public order over time on federation planets.

Political actions that are basically military operations.

Offline x4000

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Re: Best allies for the Federation
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2014, 12:21:40 pm »
If anybody has a savegame where the Burlusts or the Thoraxians are in the federation, and an ally of theirs is under attack by ground forces, I would be very grateful for that.  There are some interesting things along those lines that could be used in order to not only quell unrest but also to help defend the planet in terms of having ground troops there.  It would be really helpful to me to be able to actually test it quickly to have a save, though.
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Offline MaskityMask

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Re: Best allies for the Federation
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2014, 12:35:55 pm »
I kinda love Peltians' killer rabbit status. I mean, you aren't really ever going to see them actually acting on their bombing potential since they are so weak, but it makes me giddy to know that they can potentially start dropping asteroids and crap.

...I really should do Peltian Fear Empire game one day...

Anyway, I'm not really sure that thoraxians would boost order. I mean, they themselves are probably pretty orderly due to being hive mind, but since everyone else fears them, wouldn't that just cause more chaos?

Offline TheDarkMaster

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Re: Best allies for the Federation
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2014, 01:19:24 pm »
I attached a save from my first game.  I'm about to win it by eliminating the Boarines and invite into the federation the Acutians.  The Thoraxians and Burlusts (extremely weak) are in the federation.


Here are some other ideas for special actions.

Peltians, Keeping up with the theme of blowing things up:
-Suicide bomb an outpost, destroying it.
-Suicide bomb a planetary building, destroying it.
-Suicide bomb a colonized moon, rendering it uncolonized.

Boarines, since they actually have very few options while with a goal of solar unity:
-Defend an ally under siege, sends their fleets to attack ships over another federation member, requires solar unity goal.

Thoraxians:
-Subjugate, attempt to militarily force a single planet race into the federation.  Works when they bring a race to the point where they'd surrender.  Pisses off all non-federation races other then the Peltians, always pisses off the Andors and Skylaxians.  The subjugated race is likely to try and leave the federation at a later time, other then the Peltians.  Very expensive, and can't be used on the Evucks or Burlusts.  Can even target races in opposition alliances.

Burlust:
-War games, do practice battles with another race, giving both a boost to military strength for awhile.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2014, 01:45:01 pm by TheDarkMaster »

Offline PokerChen

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Re: Best allies for the Federation
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2014, 01:55:50 pm »
 I see Peltians exercising their orbital strike prowess - you just have to shepherd them a little and manually overcome their natural meekness.
 = = =

 I feel that the range of possible actions are currently limited by both game maturity and the initial race design, which contributes to races being a bit simplistic.

 Burlusts could potentially do with a mercenarial branch, if you decide to expand on trade route mechanics and raiders. If the races themselves are given ability to begin and terminate trades from time to time, then you can place mechanics in which race A "pillages" trade relations between races B and C. You either arrange such plunders with the pirate bases or with Burlusts (one costs credits, and the other costs much less but in leverage).
 Also, if ever you decide for a ship design and ship upgrade mechanic, I think Burlusts would be the top race for certain actions. If your security goons could be trained and equipped, they are also the best (cheapest) ones to go to. You could potentially hire some ships from a warlord to help you clear out some pirates or take on a fleet by yourself.

 Or, I suppose you could start an Interstellar football league between the Andor and the Burlusts... :P

 Separately, it strikes me as a little odd that thoraxians would be unconditionally polarising. Are hive-mind societies that hard to entreat with, or are the other races just afraid of the claws? Lore-wise, I would personally assign a set of actions gated by psionics tech that allows a broader range of actions permitted with the hive queens or mitigates some of the barriers to becoming friendly. They are not fundamentally military in my opinion. They would not necessarily boost order when sent to another race, if they are so feared and loathed.
 Although the Evucks are highly advanced in sciences, I suspect the crown of biology would have gone to thoraxians if they were more intelligent. The option of researching diseases0, if introduced, could go to these two races. Terraforming with the thoraxians could be about adapting their biology to the environment, rather than the reverse - perhaps another race, with ~0.1 compatibility, would be willing to pay the price to tweak their own biology. etc.

 ..but yes, having friendly ground troops that can be sent from allies would be a boon.

Offline NichG

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Re: Best allies for the Federation
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2014, 01:56:25 pm »
Some thoughts on extra race abilities in the Federation.

One neat thing to do might be to have 'passive abilities' that are shared by all Federation races. So for example, including the Skylaxians gives a research boost to everyone; including the Acutians gives an economic boost; including the Thoraxians gives an additional degree of defense against ground invasions, etc. This could also be used for enemy alliances, which would make them even more dangerous.

Now, more specific stuff:

Burlust:
- Bully race. Target non-federation race has its RCI drop a bit due to Burlust threats/raids/whatnot. Their relationship with the Federation/Burlusts drops, but the credit cost to get them into the Federation also drops by 25% for awhile (essentially they don't like it, but they recognize that not being in the Federation is putting them at the mercy of the Federation).
- Show of overwhelming force. Expensive option. Delays the formation of opposing alliances for a solar year. Gets more expensive every time it's used.
- Passive ability: Warrior ethos. A Federation containing the Burlusts has a +10% increase to shipbuilding for all member races.

Thoraxians:
- Raid non-federation races: Decreases relationship with non-fed races, but steals some fraction of the total mineral income of all non-federation races and gives it to the federation races for a period of time.
- The Hive Project: Kills 10-20% of the population from all non-Thoraxian fed planets. Adds double that amount across Thoraxian worlds, and increases Thoraxian invasion force strength multiplier by some amount for a solar year. Expensive, and inflicts some amount of betrayal meter for all fed races.

Offline TheDarkMaster

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Re: Best allies for the Federation
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2014, 02:44:10 pm »
Oh yes, forgot this one for the Peltians.

Assist with mining efforts.  Peltians provide their expertise with explosives for awhile, increasing resource production.

Offline PokerChen

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Re: Best allies for the Federation
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2014, 06:07:58 pm »
If anybody has a savegame where the Burlusts or the Thoraxians are in the federation, and an ally of theirs is under attack by ground forces, I would be very grateful for that.  There are some interesting things along those lines that could be used in order to not only quell unrest but also to help defend the planet in terms of having ground troops there.  It would be really helpful to me to be able to actually test it quickly to have a save, though.

Would you like a save game where you can quickly manufacture such a situation? I have everyone ready to go into the federation (start with the Evucks and ask them to federate with the Peltians) - except for the Boarine regent attitude who are stuck on "defensive" because their RCI is stuck.

EDIT: I'll try to set it up first.
EDIT2: The current setup in fedtest.save is Evucks raiding the Burlust home planet (no declaration of war), and Skylaxians preparing for war with the Burlusts also. The Thoraxians and the  Burlusts have been invited into the federation, making them allies with the Andors and Peltians. There's only 2m Evuck ground troops though, so they won't survive for long.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2014, 06:19:58 pm by zharmad »

Offline Silverfire

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Re: Best allies for the Federation
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2014, 07:16:40 pm »
For the Burlusts (or maybe for everyone) I'd like to see a "Defend (race X) from (race Y that race X is at war with)." Cheaper if they are defending the underdogs. Glorious battle!