Arcen Games

Games => The Last Federation => Topic started by: x4000 on October 30, 2015, 04:25:21 PM

Title: Coming Soon: The Last Federation: The Lost Technologies (Expansion 2)
Post by: x4000 on October 30, 2015, 04:25:21 PM
Original: https://arcengames.com/coming-soon-the-last-federation-the-lost-technologies-expansion-2/

bionic_capsule_lg2

What's this now? A new expansion, you say?

Indeed! The Lost Technologies. We've been working with Draco18s, a long-time community member here, to bring this one to life. This is quite an exciting expansion for us, because we hadn't even thought we'd be able to do something like this this year (what with Stars Beyond Reach and now Starward Rogue and all that).

This expansion brings to life a number of things that are centered around technology in one way or another. The races all have their own unique racial techs now, for instance -- giving them more character than ever before. Techs now have cool new "side effects" that can benefit you or other races in regular combat.

There's even a new Tech Race game mode where it's a cutthroat race through the tech tree -- with the catch that you have to work with you enemies to win, because you're unlikely to win on your own. Make allies, ditch em, make new ones, and coast across the finish line (hopefully) on your own.

ArtilleryTurret3

This also will coincide with the release of TLF 3.0, a free update to all the owners of the base game. This update includes several pieces of new content including 3 new alliance types, four new events, and a few other goodies. And naturally the expansion has more stuff, too -- a gorgeous but fragile new planet type, new turret types, a new type of mission for gathering your own unique Hydral techs, new ability types, and so on.

Oh -- and "champion" enemies, too. Can't believe I almost forgot that one! Champions add a new element to combat where you may need to avoid a specific enemy ship that is doing... something strange and unexpected. You can easily tell the champion ships by their purple glow, and they have a way of exerting a bit of gravity -- so to speak -- on their part of the battlefield.

Release Date!


We look to be on schedule for a November 11th release. All the features are complete and in testing with a small group of players who blindly volunteered without knowing what they were signing up for. That's faith! ;) The expansion itself has been in work since mid-September, so that's about average for an expansion from us. What's not average is us managing to keep it a secret for this long, heh.

RingWorldSurface

Already An Advanced Player?


If you're already an advanced player of TLF, you might be interested in some of the notable things addressed by various additions:


* The Kessler Syndrome event (new free content in v3.0) makes space junk buildup around planets matter a lot more.

* The Deorbited Ship event (also free v3.0 content) fills a hole where the Skylaxians are too honorable to bomb anybody (although the event will happen to any race invading any other); essentially a large, hostile fleet in orbit that is otherwise doing little to invade can get "hit" by the event and cause... fun times.

* The Welding Drones tech side effect now repair Large (and larger) ship hulls by a small amount every combat turn, provided that it did not take any damage. Maintaining shield integrity and avoiding disruptor shots can slowly make up for a tactical mistake and keep the player alive for longer

* The new Beam Rifles tech has a side effect that increases the range of all laser-based weaponry by 10%.

* The Nuclear Fusion tech has a side effect that increases shield recharge rate by 5%
Title: Re: Coming Soon: The Last Federation: The Lost Technologies (Expansion 2)
Post by: chemical_art on October 30, 2015, 04:50:41 PM
For once I was in the first wave of an alpha:

Let me attest it is a LOT of fun with some of the extra stuff in here and that's just with the tech changes and a few of the events. I'm excited to see the bigger changes.

Edit: I'm eargerly awaiting other's opinion of things and the first wave of balance changes so I can do another game. My first one through a suck punch of epic proportions.
Title: Re: Coming Soon: The Last Federation: The Lost Technologies (Expansion 2)
Post by: nas1m on October 30, 2015, 05:19:11 PM
Cool stuff with regard to the new stuff and 3.0!
There seems to be something wrong with the game page of the expansion, though.
At least it does not come up on my phone but shows an empty white page with a single zero instead...
Title: Re: Coming Soon: The Last Federation: The Lost Technologies (Expansion 2)
Post by: Castruccio on October 30, 2015, 05:23:11 PM
What a pleasant surprise!
Title: Re: Coming Soon: The Last Federation: The Lost Technologies (Expansion 2)
Post by: crazyroosterman on October 30, 2015, 05:58:32 PM
id love to give my opinion of this but its not really working for me.(at least in till keys become a thing at least)
Title: Re: Coming Soon: The Last Federation: The Lost Technologies (Expansion 2)
Post by: Mick on October 30, 2015, 08:01:27 PM
woot!
Title: Re: Coming Soon: The Last Federation: The Lost Technologies (Expansion 2)
Post by: Pumpkin on October 30, 2015, 08:31:11 PM
Interesting. Blindly signing Arcen's "devil's pact" is always a !!fun!! thing. I can't wait to see the techs!!! And that new kind of planet and the champions, of course!
Title: Re: Coming Soon: The Last Federation: The Lost Technologies (Expansion 2)
Post by: Draco18s on October 30, 2015, 09:38:27 PM
And I gotta say guys, its been a blast making this too.  A big thanks to Chris for offering me the opportunity.
Title: Re: Coming Soon: The Last Federation: The Lost Technologies (Expansion 2)
Post by: x4000 on October 30, 2015, 10:49:35 PM
And I gotta say guys, its been a blast making this too.  A big thanks to Chris for offering me the opportunity.

It is absolutely my pleasure -- you've done a smashing job with it. :)
Title: Re: Coming Soon: The Last Federation: The Lost Technologies (Expansion 2)
Post by: Captain Jack on October 30, 2015, 11:15:27 PM
Had to clear the cache before I could see the announcement on the main page, which made for an entertaining minute or two.

Wow, had no idea this started just in September. Also had no idea that a two month turn around was average for you folks, talk about impressive.

Congrats Draco, the whole thing fits together so seamlessly I couldn't tell until the Niven Rings were new content until I checked the files. And I've got two of them in my current game, which is honestly pretty cool.
Title: Re: Coming Soon: The Last Federation: The Lost Technologies (Expansion 2)
Post by: Draco18s on October 30, 2015, 11:49:51 PM
Wow, had no idea this started just in September. Also had no idea that a two month turn around was average for you folks, talk about impressive.

Yeah, like six weeks.  It was pretty much real easy content to code, as all of the main stuff was already set up and it was just "have an idea, code it."  I can work really damn fast that way.

Quote
Congrats Draco, the whole thing fits together so seamlessly I couldn't tell until the Niven Rings were new content until I checked the files. And I've got two of them in my current game, which is honestly pretty cool.

Hehe, awesome.  I haven't seen two in one game yet, but yeah, they're gorgeous.
Title: Re: Coming Soon: The Last Federation: The Lost Technologies (Expansion 2)
Post by: Misery on October 31, 2015, 07:23:00 AM
Wow, had no idea this started just in September. Also had no idea that a two month turn around was average for you folks, talk about impressive.

Well, this is Arcen.  Making stuff quickly without sacrificing anything is the norm.

Even when they've got someone else doing a project or something for them, it STILL gets done at an absurd rate  ;)
Title: Re: Coming Soon: The Last Federation: The Lost Technologies (Expansion 2)
Post by: Tolc on October 31, 2015, 02:55:08 PM
Ah, the official announcement. I'm still blindly stumbling over new stuff so far :)
Title: Re: Coming Soon: The Last Federation: The Lost Technologies (Expansion 2)
Post by: Zebeast46 on October 31, 2015, 10:23:10 PM
Well I just started a game and it has been pretty interesting so far (LOVE the art on the new planet, it really is amazing) but one thing I am not a fan of is that currently it is a little too hard to see the in-battle effects of the new tech side effects. Just want to add that maybe showing your current bonuses while in battle could improve this.
Title: Re: Coming Soon: The Last Federation: The Lost Technologies (Expansion 2)
Post by: x4000 on November 01, 2015, 11:50:08 AM
Wow, had no idea this started just in September. Also had no idea that a two month turn around was average for you folks, talk about impressive.

We're either stupidly quick or stupidly slow, feels like. ;)

In seriousness: when we're doing expansions to existing game spaces, there tends to be a LOT of room for developing new stuff in an existing framework.  So we tend to have our pick of the litter, so to speak.

But when we're doing a new game, the risk is extra high because even if something seems straightforwardly-thought-out (see: Stars Beyond Reach), there are so many gotchas and unexpected redesigns based on doing something novel.  So the initial buildout can be extraordinarily expensive and time consuming.  See also: TLF itself.

I think part of why expansions are quick is that once we've established a new design space with a game, there's enough distance between it and other games that we can add things that are quicker for us to design and code, but give a nonlinear boost to player enjoyment.

Sometimes our expansions take more like 3 months, but usually we're not focused completely on them during that period if they do.  There's always some form of testing period where we're just in reaction mode to balance or bugfix issues that people bring up, versus actually adding new things.
Title: Re: Coming Soon: The Last Federation: The Lost Technologies (Expansion 2)
Post by: Draco18s on November 01, 2015, 12:41:04 PM
Sounds about right.
I spent about 9 months or so developing my Reasonable Realism mod for Minecraft (http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/mapping-and-modding/minecraft-mods/2451299-reasonable-realism), mostly in a "I am doing something radically different and need to learn new systems" state of mind, but I've spent at least that much time fixing bugs and tweaking things (with the occasional feature). But if I'd had to build Minecraft too, I'd never finish.

Speaking of, I've been working on a project that is ground up and is got quite a ways to go before it could really being a game.
Title: Re: Coming Soon: The Last Federation: The Lost Technologies (Expansion 2)
Post by: x4000 on November 01, 2015, 04:00:44 PM
Speaking of, I've been working on a project that is ground up and is got quite a ways to go before it could really being a game.

Sounds intriguing!
Title: Re: Coming Soon: The Last Federation: The Lost Technologies (Expansion 2)
Post by: Draco18s on November 02, 2015, 12:40:11 AM
Speaking of, I've been working on a project that is ground up and is got quite a ways to go before it could really being a game.
Sounds intriguing!

Mind, I'm having to pick up a huge amount of knowledge.  I think I spent three days just on stencil masks.  And it wasn't even that important, I was just super annoyed that edge highlighting is typically a post-processing effect and didn't want to and that the standard methods (scaling the model up) were imprecise.  None the less I found a solution.  A 165 line, two-pass, stenciled geometry fragment shader (posted over here (http://answers.unity3d.com/answers/1065843/view.html), as it was the top google result for that particular question).  There's an example in the comment reply stack.

All I've got at the moment is about a fifth of a half-decent map generator.  It's missing a ton of small detail work and actual scenario elements, and its not hugely varied (how many rectangular rooms connected by fixed-width hallways can you really traverse before growing bored).  Soooo...I've kind of got some impetus to scrap it and start over.  On the upside, its better than my prior attempt, which ended up feeling cramped and overly large at the same time (no room to maneuver with really long travel times).

I'm also not as thrilled with my combat model (damage and weapons, actually) due to a conceptual mismatch between planned effects and mechanical and fluff description.  E.g. 6 stats which can all be independently damaged with a variety of effects from turning the smartest robot guards into mindless imbeciles incapable of tracking you (as they keep forgetting you're a threat) to restricting vision range, movement speed, or damage output.  Buuuut....I don't have good names for the damage types that make sense to effect enemies in these ways that also make for good mechanics that allow for a diversity of weapon types.

The goal was to make "raw damage" not a truly viable choice ("sure, you can, and it'll work, but it's not that interesting") and instead give alternatives that let the stealth aspect work.  Bean the guard over the head and he forgets about you as you melt back into the shadows (hooray, concussion!).  Blind the watcher, sure he might raise an alarm, but he doesn't know where you are so it doesn't do a whole lot of good.  That kind of thing instead of just "kill everyone."  Plus, I'm very much a fan of stealth games where getting spotted and having to get into combat isn't an instant-loss scenario.  Deus Ex: Human Revolution felt like this most of the time.  Styx Master of Shadows has its moments, but I feel that the combat is too brutal to warrant doing often (you can take one guy and get away with no damage about a third of the time, another third you just die; if you get two guys on you you're just dead, you can't parry both of their attacks and parries are the only option unless you get the slip on a guy: you parry and get an opportunity to counter-attack, hug it up and you get stabbed for a good 40% of your hit points).  Which means that you're either killing everyone (if you have the opportunity to sneak up and insta-dead a guy, you take it, because that means he can sneak up on you while you're trying to get around the next guard).  I'm still kind of annoyed that the only way I got past one room of guards I had to use my 6 second-invisibility skill and run like hell and climb a wall where they couldn't follow.  I tried so hard to sneak in and kill them one by one and it never worked.

...that ended up being a longer post that went into more detail than I'd originally intended.  TL;DR I'm disappointed in parts of my original design or implementation and have a lot of things I need to still figure out and/or learn, but I've had a blast doing it.
Title: Re: Coming Soon: The Last Federation: The Lost Technologies (Expansion 2)
Post by: crazyroosterman on November 02, 2015, 11:03:11 AM
Speaking of, I've been working on a project that is ground up and is got quite a ways to go before it could really being a game.
Sounds intriguing!

Mind, I'm having to pick up a huge amount of knowledge.  I think I spent three days just on stencil masks.  And it wasn't even that important, I was just super annoyed that edge highlighting is typically a post-processing effect and didn't want to and that the standard methods (scaling the model up) were imprecise.  None the less I found a solution.  A 165 line, two-pass, stenciled geometry fragment shader (posted over here (http://answers.unity3d.com/answers/1065843/view.html), as it was the top google result for that particular question).  There's an example in the comment reply stack.

All I've got at the moment is about a fifth of a half-decent map generator.  It's missing a ton of small detail work and actual scenario elements, and its not hugely varied (how many rectangular rooms connected by fixed-width hallways can you really traverse before growing bored).  Soooo...I've kind of got some impetus to scrap it and start over.  On the upside, its better than my prior attempt, which ended up feeling cramped and overly large at the same time (no room to maneuver with really long travel times).

I'm also not as thrilled with my combat model (damage and weapons, actually) due to a conceptual mismatch between planned effects and mechanical and fluff description.  E.g. 6 stats which can all be independently damaged with a variety of effects from turning the smartest robot guards into mindless imbeciles incapable of tracking you (as they keep forgetting you're a threat) to restricting vision range, movement speed, or damage output.  Buuuut....I don't have good names for the damage types that make sense to effect enemies in these ways that also make for good mechanics that allow for a diversity of weapon types.

The goal was to make "raw damage" not a truly viable choice ("sure, you can, and it'll work, but it's not that interesting") and instead give alternatives that let the stealth aspect work.  Bean the guard over the head and he forgets about you as you melt back into the shadows (hooray, concussion!).  Blind the watcher, sure he might raise an alarm, but he doesn't know where you are so it doesn't do a whole lot of good.  That kind of thing instead of just "kill everyone."  Plus, I'm very much a fan of stealth games where getting spotted and having to get into combat isn't an instant-loss scenario.  Deus Ex: Human Revolution felt like this most of the time.  Styx Master of Shadows has its moments, but I feel that the combat is too brutal to warrant doing often (you can take one guy and get away with no damage about a third of the time, another third you just die; if you get two guys on you you're just dead, you can't parry both of their attacks and parries are the only option unless you get the slip on a guy: you parry and get an opportunity to counter-attack, hug it up and you get stabbed for a good 40% of your hit points).  Which means that you're either killing everyone (if you have the opportunity to sneak up and insta-dead a guy, you take it, because that means he can sneak up on you while you're trying to get around the next guard).  I'm still kind of annoyed that the only way I got past one room of guards I had to use my 6 second-invisibility skill and run like hell and climb a wall where they couldn't follow.  I tried so hard to sneak in and kill them one by one and it never worked.

...that ended up being a longer post that went into more detail than I'd originally intended.  TL;DR I'm disappointed in parts of my original design or implementation and have a lot of things I need to still figure out and/or learn, but I've had a blast doing it.
wait its a stealth game your making? now I'm really rather interested.
Title: Re: Coming Soon: The Last Federation: The Lost Technologies (Expansion 2)
Post by: x4000 on November 02, 2015, 11:41:21 AM
That does sound really cool!  This is a FPS, then?
Title: Re: Coming Soon: The Last Federation: The Lost Technologies (Expansion 2)
Post by: Draco18s on November 02, 2015, 01:53:49 PM
wait its a stealth game your making? now I'm really rather interested.
That does sound really cool!  This is a FPS, then?

Yes to both questions.
Title: Re: Coming Soon: The Last Federation: The Lost Technologies (Expansion 2)
Post by: crazyroosterman on November 02, 2015, 02:28:00 PM
wait its a stealth game your making? now I'm really rather interested.
That does sound really cool!  This is a FPS, then?

Yes to both questions.
its  an fps as well? sounds neat not that Ill really look into it when its out since my laptop doesn't surely take kindly fps games.
Title: Re: Coming Soon: The Last Federation: The Lost Technologies (Expansion 2)
Post by: Draco18s on November 02, 2015, 02:56:39 PM
its  an fps as well? sounds neat not that Ill really look into it when its out since my laptop doesn't surely take kindly fps games.

"Out" hahaha XD
Title: Re: Coming Soon: The Last Federation: The Lost Technologies (Expansion 2)
Post by: Professor Paul1290 on November 03, 2015, 08:02:21 PM
I don't mean to pry, but out of curiosity how well did the last expansion do?

I don't remember hearing all that much about it so I got the impression it went like the Skyward Collapse expansion, but I guess maybe not.
Title: Re: Coming Soon: The Last Federation: The Lost Technologies (Expansion 2)
Post by: crazyroosterman on November 03, 2015, 08:08:25 PM
I don't mean to pry, but out of curiosity how well did the last expansion do?

I don't remember hearing all that much about it so I got the impression it went like the Skyward Collapse expansion, but I guess maybe not.
that game had an expansion? I genuinely had no idea.
Title: Re: Coming Soon: The Last Federation: The Lost Technologies (Expansion 2)
Post by: x4000 on November 03, 2015, 08:10:54 PM
I don't have offhand numbers on the TLF expansion, but it was in the ballpark of AI War expansions in terms of the effect it had on its own sales plus main game sales.  TLF overall still accounts for something like 40% of our monthly income, with AI War down to maybe 50%.  Ish.
Title: Re: Coming Soon: The Last Federation: The Lost Technologies (Expansion 2)
Post by: crazyroosterman on November 03, 2015, 08:29:13 PM
I don't have offhand numbers on the TLF expansion, but it was in the ballpark of AI War expansions in terms of the effect it had on its own sales plus main game sales.  TLF overall still accounts for something like 40% of our monthly income, with AI War down to maybe 50%.  Ish.
Hu I didn't think tlf was still that popular glad to see that tlfs dope.
Title: Re: Coming Soon: The Last Federation: The Lost Technologies (Expansion 2)
Post by: chemical_art on November 03, 2015, 08:40:43 PM
Grand strategy is a fairly niche market, but they are dedicated. Grand strategy + tactic mixes are rarer still. So a game that scratches that niche effectively can have lasting staying power.
Title: Re: Coming Soon: The Last Federation: The Lost Technologies (Expansion 2)
Post by: Professor Paul1290 on November 03, 2015, 09:10:26 PM
I don't have offhand numbers on the TLF expansion, but it was in the ballpark of AI War expansions in terms of the effect it had on its own sales plus main game sales.  TLF overall still accounts for something like 40% of our monthly income, with AI War down to maybe 50%.  Ish.

That's quite a bit more than I thought. Nice to see TLF has been doing well.
Title: Re: Coming Soon: The Last Federation: The Lost Technologies (Expansion 2)
Post by: Draco18s on November 04, 2015, 02:12:55 AM
Never thought I'd see that happen.

(http://s15.postimg.org/sguut0gon/Screenshot_2015_11_04_02_03_39.jpg) (http://s15.postimg.org/tvwfhqhrt/Screenshot_2015_11_04_02_03_39.png)

Thoraxian/Skylaxian alliance via utopia (fabled medical) and ending a war.  Came about in observer mode, so I had no hand (claw? fin?) in it.  Other than going back to the code and having to tweak the checks so that it actually happened (as I'd intended for it to).

Looks like if I let the game keep going, the two roboraces might end up in it too (via econ, which are currently at ~600), which would be hilarious.
Title: Re: Coming Soon: The Last Federation: The Lost Technologies (Expansion 2)
Post by: Captain Jack on November 04, 2015, 02:38:40 AM
Never thought I'd see that happen.

(http://s15.postimg.org/sguut0gon/Screenshot_2015_11_04_02_03_39.jpg) (http://s15.postimg.org/tvwfhqhrt/Screenshot_2015_11_04_02_03_39.png)

Thoraxian/Skylaxian alliance via utopia (fabled medical) and ending a war.  Came about in observer mode, so I had no hand (claw? fin?) in it.  Other than going back to the code and having to tweak the checks so that it actually happened (as I'd intended for it to).

Looks like if I let the game keep going, the two roboraces might end up in it too (via econ, which are currently at ~600), which would be hilarious.
*various choking noises*  :o
Title: Re: Coming Soon: The Last Federation: The Lost Technologies (Expansion 2)
Post by: Tolc on November 04, 2015, 02:41:42 AM
Ok, I haven't seen that before... :o
Title: Re: Coming Soon: The Last Federation: The Lost Technologies (Expansion 2)
Post by: Draco18s on November 04, 2015, 11:06:21 AM
*various choking noises*  :o

I'm sure the "problem" will go away as I finalize handling how races care for their own planets in Tech Race.  I'm not sure why the Skylaxians ended up so dope, but the Thoraxians have three planets--one of which still has negative medical--so in the act of fixing that plant they over-fixed a different one.

Still not the first time I've seen a utopia form, and the last time didn't have the bits of code I'm doing now.
Title: Re: Coming Soon: The Last Federation: The Lost Technologies (Expansion 2)
Post by: Teal_Blue on November 04, 2015, 02:07:55 PM
Good to see it coming along, am looking forward to trying it when you release. Looking nice!

-Teal
Title: Re: Coming Soon: The Last Federation: The Lost Technologies (Expansion 2)
Post by: dumpsterKEEPER on November 11, 2015, 11:28:00 AM
Is this still on track to be released today? I haven't seen any followup information indicating one way or the other.

Looking forward to it!
Title: Re: Coming Soon: The Last Federation: The Lost Technologies (Expansion 2)
Post by: ptarth on November 11, 2015, 11:39:58 AM
http://www.gog.com/game/the_last_federation_the_lost_technologies

It is out on GOG.
Title: Re: Coming Soon: The Last Federation: The Lost Technologies (Expansion 2)
Post by: Tolc on November 11, 2015, 01:16:00 PM
Yeah, and apparently people are out of their minds about the discount....complaining that they are getting ripped off/ effed up for already owning the base game + Betrayed Hope...complaining that they only get a 10% discount while newcomers to the series get all parts including the new dlc for 50% off...
Title: Re: Coming Soon: The Last Federation: The Lost Technologies (Expansion 2)
Post by: Mick on November 11, 2015, 02:30:34 PM
Yeah, and apparently people are out of their minds about the discount....complaining that they are getting ripped off/ effed up for already owning the base game + Betrayed Hope...complaining that they only get a 10% discount while newcomers to the series get all parts including the new dlc for 50% off...

...I'm glad that I can limit myself to shouting at my screen instead of the people in the comments...

Can someone explain to me why this would anger people? I honestly don't understand.
Title: Re: Coming Soon: The Last Federation: The Lost Technologies (Expansion 2)
Post by: Tolc on November 11, 2015, 02:36:58 PM
No, I can't. But Chris posted a statement over there, so people have more information now...
Title: Re: Coming Soon: The Last Federation: The Lost Technologies (Expansion 2)
Post by: x4000 on November 11, 2015, 02:40:02 PM
Yeah, and apparently people are out of their minds about the discount....complaining that they are getting ripped off/ effed up for already owning the base game + Betrayed Hope...complaining that they only get a 10% discount while newcomers to the series get all parts including the new dlc for 50% off...

...I'm glad that I can limit myself to shouting at my screen instead of the people in the comments...

Can someone explain to me why this would anger people? I honestly don't understand.

Basically: the idea that gaining a new customer is more important than keeping an existing one is offensive.  And I get that.  What about loyalty to existing customers?  Shouldn't I be trying to give you guys the best deals, and have new people pay full price?

...in an ideal world, yeah.

I mean, I totally get the emotion behind "I've been good to you, and you do this to me in return??"  But I wrote up a whole post as to the realities of the situation from my perspective, which is obviously just one of a variety of perspectives at play.  Hopefully that at least sets some minds at ease.
Title: Re: Coming Soon: The Last Federation: The Lost Technologies (Expansion 2)
Post by: Mick on November 11, 2015, 02:41:25 PM
No, I can't. But Chris posted a statement over there, so people have more information now...

I started it but I thought "this sure is a whole lot to read to explain why I shouldn't be angry about something I'm already not angry about."
Title: Re: Coming Soon: The Last Federation: The Lost Technologies (Expansion 2)
Post by: x4000 on November 11, 2015, 02:43:04 PM
No, I can't. But Chris posted a statement over there, so people have more information now...

I started it but I thought "this sure is a whole lot to read to explain why I shouldn't be angry about something I'm already not angry about."

Ahahahaha.  Thanks for cheering me up with that.  :D  Yeah, I'm stupid long-winded.  In the interest of being thorough, but still.
Title: Re: Coming Soon: The Last Federation: The Lost Technologies (Expansion 2)
Post by: Tolc on November 11, 2015, 02:47:06 PM
Long-winded or not, it was an interesting read! And I think most people will be content to have an explanation like that (not something you get from very many developers).
Title: Re: Coming Soon: The Last Federation: The Lost Technologies (Expansion 2)
Post by: TheVampire100 on November 11, 2015, 02:48:23 PM
Considering the price is just about 5-6 bucks it is really confusing. This is an amoutn even a kid with no own income can easily get just by asking it's parents. This is something you don't have to save for the half year.
Title: Re: Coming Soon: The Last Federation: The Lost Technologies (Expansion 2)
Post by: Tolc on November 11, 2015, 02:57:22 PM
To be fair, for most people in that thread it was a question of principle. Fighting about principles (regional pricing, etc.) is very common on gog which is not a bad thing per se, but in this case it went overboard in my opinion.
Title: Re: Coming Soon: The Last Federation: The Lost Technologies (Expansion 2)
Post by: x4000 on November 11, 2015, 03:20:41 PM
Long-winded or not, it was an interesting read! And I think most people will be content to have an explanation like that (not something you get from very many developers).

Thank you!  It's always really nice when something like that is interesting to folks. :)
Title: Re: Coming Soon: The Last Federation: The Lost Technologies (Expansion 2)
Post by: crazyroosterman on November 11, 2015, 04:20:22 PM
you know I never fail to be amazed just how nice some game company's are when most company's when compared to a good deal of other types of company's its probably to do with just how important pr is for games company's sometimes even for triple a developers.
Title: Re: Coming Soon: The Last Federation: The Lost Technologies (Expansion 2)
Post by: x4000 on November 11, 2015, 07:37:37 PM
I think there's a really good spectrum across all businesses, honestly.  I think that with big companies it has a lot to do with what the public-facing people are like, and with small companies it has to do with what all the people are like.  There are companies big and small in all industries that are jerks, or that are really cool about things.
Title: Re: Coming Soon: The Last Federation: The Lost Technologies (Expansion 2)
Post by: TheVampire100 on November 11, 2015, 09:08:48 PM
A small company can act immature exactly like a big company can. The thing is, a big company gets noticed from more people and if they screw up with something you can be sure that all the news sites will talk about this so everyone knows what happened.
Small companies lack this kind of attention. When they do something bad or start to harass their customers only their fanbase/customers will notive this plus some extra guys. Maybe one or two gaming magazines will talk about it but since this isn't a really popular company like, let's say Eelectronic Art that gets backlash for everything they do whenever they do it, the tide will quickly calm down again.
Remeber the moment when the leading developer of Paranautical Activity twittered that we wants to see Gabe Newell dead? Well, the game got removed from Steam afterwards. But now it's back and most people have already forgotten that this happened. Of course anyone will say "Oh, yeah, right, this happenes, I remember" when you tell them but they don't think activily about it.
Another example? EA screws over with their in-app purchases in almost any of their game, regardless of a free mobile game or a 60$ massive multiplattform title. And people always get reminded of that whenever they play said games or whenever they read "EA".

Boy, I talked a lot about this but to make it short: Just wait and they will calm down eventually (if they already haven't). They always do and it isn't really a big incident, it acutally is no incident, just a bunch of players that feel betrayed of their money when they aren't (really, slaes happen all the time and tehy PICk this one for a fight? Really bad move).
Title: Re: Coming Soon: The Last Federation: The Lost Technologies (Expansion 2)
Post by: x4000 on November 11, 2015, 10:49:51 PM
Actually the folks in the thread have been super responsive and mature about things.  They don't all agree with me -- which is fine.  But I treated them with respect and candor, and they've returned that admirably.  I didn't expect to change everyone's mind, and haven't, but I also didn't expect everyone to be so darn nice, and they have.  So: score one for the world being better than I expected, today. :)
Title: Re: Coming Soon: The Last Federation: The Lost Technologies (Expansion 2)
Post by: Misery on November 12, 2015, 12:01:44 AM
I just saw all of this in that email you'd sent out, Chris, and just.... ugh.  This sounds REALLY irritating and stressful.   Doesnt exactly please me too much either.  Was hoping to see this spark some more interest in the game, since more sales might = more content down the line, or whatever, but.... 

Well, here's hoping it goes well in the end.


Considering the price is just about 5-6 bucks it is really confusing. This is an amoutn even a kid with no own income can easily get just by asking it's parents. This is something you don't have to save for the half year.

Do you know much about mobile gaming at all?  It's a good example of this.

People FREAK THE HELL OUT if they have to pay 50 cents too much.  Or sometimes, if they have to pay a dollar.  Not "a dollar more than a certain amount", no, I mean, "if they have to pay a dollar at all".  Because of COURSE things should be hyper cheap or free, and to hell with however much it costs to make the game.  How DARE the developers try to earn money off of it?

That obviously is a bit of a different market, thankfully, but it does show just how astonishingly cheap people can be.   And maybe it's just me, but there's more of a sense of "entitlement" these days than ever before, which just makes it worse.

Or I'm just being negative.  Or both.
Title: Re: Coming Soon: The Last Federation: The Lost Technologies (Expansion 2)
Post by: Draco18s on November 12, 2015, 01:28:57 AM
People FREAK THE HELL OUT if they have to pay 50 cents too much.  Or sometimes, if they have to pay a dollar.  Not "a dollar more than a certain amount", no, I mean, "if they have to pay a dollar at all".  Because of COURSE things should be hyper cheap or free, and to hell with however much it costs to make the game.  How DARE the developers try to earn money off of it?

I've been there.  But almost always it was because whatever the thing was, it was not worth a dollar.
Look at hats in TF2.  Some of them are available on the Mann Co. Store for like $25.

Twenty five dollars.

Sure, there are people who will pay that, but honestly most of the hats are like "a dollar or two" in perceived value for me.
Title: Re: Coming Soon: The Last Federation: The Lost Technologies (Expansion 2)
Post by: Captain Jack on November 12, 2015, 01:36:54 AM
Actually the folks in the thread have been super responsive and mature about things.  They don't all agree with me -- which is fine.  But I treated them with respect and candor, and they've returned that admirably.  I didn't expect to change everyone's mind, and haven't, but I also didn't expect everyone to be so darn nice, and they have.  So: score one for the world being better than I expected, today. :)
Hate to break up the pity party, but you should recheck the thread Chris: you DID change the mind of everyone active in the thread! The sole holdout elected to hold out because the value proposition was only going to improve, and they had yet to play the base game.  :D

Can't say anything about non-participants on GOG or people who are buying from Steam, but you did something wonderful there and they responded in kind. Congrats!

Do you know much about mobile gaming at all?  It's a good example of this.

People FREAK THE HELL OUT if they have to pay 50 cents too much.  Or sometimes, if they have to pay a dollar.  Not "a dollar more than a certain amount", no, I mean, "if they have to pay a dollar at all".  Because of COURSE things should be hyper cheap or free, and to hell with however much it costs to make the game.  How DARE the developers try to earn money off of it?

That obviously is a bit of a different market, thankfully, but it does show just how astonishingly cheap people can be.   And maybe it's just me, but there's more of a sense of "entitlement" these days than ever before, which just makes it worse.

Or I'm just being negative.  Or both.
You're talking about the devaluation of game software. It's not just mobile where it's happening: plenty of Steam/GOG/console users will refuse to buy a full price game if it isn't THE hottest new thing, whether it's a $60 AAA or a $10 indie. They've learned to wait for the sales, which is a GOOD thing since it extends their purchasing power many times over, and a TERRIBLE thing because it lowers the perceived value of ALL games.

It's worse in the mobile sphere because there is no time when a game is "allowed" to have a price above several dollars, no matter what it's actually quality(value). See: Monument Valley. Since gaming is a leisure activity and, economically speaking, there's no difference between shovelware and high quality releases, far too many people gravitate towards the "free" stuff and expect the same price for all their purchases.

tl;dr: Steam sales rot people's brains.
Title: Re: Coming Soon: The Last Federation: The Lost Technologies (Expansion 2)
Post by: Toranth on November 12, 2015, 08:28:59 AM
tl;dr: Steam sales rot people's brains.
I'm a dedicated CAG, so I love Steam sales and bundles and the like, so I must disagree.
I think the deep discount sales are a symptom, not the cause.  The root cause of low prices is that there is SO MUCH out there, you can always find something else similar at a lower price.

As much as it may pain people to admit, games are semi-fungible.  When the supply goes up, price goes down.
Title: Re: Coming Soon: The Last Federation: The Lost Technologies (Expansion 2)
Post by: TheVampire100 on November 12, 2015, 10:11:46 AM


Considering the price is just about 5-6 bucks it is really confusing. This is an amoutn even a kid with no own income can easily get just by asking it's parents. This is something you don't have to save for the half year.

Do you know much about mobile gaming at all?  It's a good example of this.

People FREAK THE HELL OUT if they have to pay 50 cents too much.  Or sometimes, if they have to pay a dollar.  Not "a dollar more than a certain amount", no, I mean, "if they have to pay a dollar at all".  Because of COURSE things should be hyper cheap or free, and to hell with however much it costs to make the game.  How DARE the developers try to earn money off of it?


I know about the mobile game market and it irritates me. I don't have  a problem to pay10$ for a mobile game if the value of the game is worth the price. Square Enix is one of the few developers that refuses to sell their full games for less what they are worth and I gappily bought FF1-5 from the app store. Also FF Dimensions which is an episodic title and despite I really HATE episodic games. They trick you into having a free or cheap game while only selling you part of it with the rest of the game missing except you pay  a lot of money, sometimes more than a game normally costs. They make ypu believe that you pay for multiple games and you can "always stop at any game" but this is obviously not true, you miss the whole story of the game if you don't buy everything and they ALWAYS will leave you with a big cliffhanger after each episode.
However, FF Dimensions was actually a really good game that I enjoyed. And it really wasn't cheap. It may have been a little too straight forward for an old-school FF title but in the end you could explore the whole game world anyway.

I'm also a big fan of Junk Jack. The game itself costs already around 4 or 5 dollars (don't remember anymore) and it still sells you in-app purchases (which are entirely optional) but the game is worth the money and I even bought some of the IAP because I like how the developers handle the game. They make another big update after every 3-4 months. Not small updates with little changes, mostly really big updates with entire new planets to visit or another new gaming feature. Over time they included fishing, alchemy, season themed biomes, gardening and electronics. I've played the game for over a year and I still haven't seen all the content. And soon the game will be out for PC ith crossplattform multiplayer. This wouldn't be possible if the game was open for free.

And if I look at the "free" games of Electronic Arts I just want to vomit. While the games themself are free, they are so damn hard that you will be forced to play... or suffer. They really will let you suffer for playing as long as you don't play. The time when games were about fun are over.