Author Topic: Combat .. uhm.. Concerns? From irc  (Read 11229 times)

Offline Misery

  • Arcen Volunteer
  • Core Member Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,109
Re: Combat .. uhm.. Concerns? From irc
« Reply #75 on: April 21, 2014, 07:36:10 PM »
By the way, how to lose in this game if NOT in combat? I mean sooner or later everyone will kill everyone and the only thing that will remain is the federation. No? I have not played enough so I'm not sure how this works...

The federation can actually lose to the AFA (Anti Federation Something) ;p But imo only if you severely neglect your federation members. Or you like, only have the weakest join. I don't know how the AFA could ever become a real threat though. Also races do create other alliances without you. But it seems to be a random thing (ie, who happens to trade with who, mainly)

What I saw is that negative events when not countered by you, lead to massive disadvantages for that race. Races not player friendly thus end up stacking negative effects, as they are not able to counter them themselves. That, and of course keeping your federation up-to-date with technologies.

Basically, the strategic gameplay is way, way too easy. And Combat is only there for credits really.

There does need to be some sort of "lose" condition in there... I dont think there is one right now, in the solar map section.

It's not so much that the strategic part is easy...  alot of the strategy to accomplish things can be very deep.  But when you cannot lose no matter what.... yeah, that's an issue.

Offline zespri

  • Hero Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,109
Re: Combat .. uhm.. Concerns? From irc
« Reply #76 on: April 22, 2014, 04:48:03 AM »
Oh, look, the lose condition! Every race is in an alliance against YOU!

Offline Misery

  • Arcen Volunteer
  • Core Member Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,109
Re: Combat .. uhm.. Concerns? From irc
« Reply #77 on: April 22, 2014, 04:56:11 AM »
....how does it even get to that though?  This is the first I've even heard of it, which to me still says that if there IS a lose condition, it's sorta trivial at this point. And I dont think the game ever makes mention of this, either.  The idea that there's no way to lose seems prevalent.

But either way, the challenge level seems really off in some ways, with this.  It almost feels like you'd have to TRY to lose, or at least that's the impression I get so far, particularly from player experiences that I've heard up to this point.  This also just needs to be explained more.

Offline Lancefighter

  • Core Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,440
Re: Combat .. uhm.. Concerns? From irc
« Reply #78 on: April 22, 2014, 05:13:01 AM »
There should somehow be a win case when the afa wins. Like even if everyone hates you,they got together and formed exactly what you wanted, and lived happily ever after..

Of course it probably shouldnt be all afa victories, but tis a silly idea
Ideas? Suggestions? Concerns? Bugs to be squashed? Report them on the Mantis Bugtracker!

Author of the Dyson Project and the Spire Gambit

Offline kosmoface

  • Newbie Mark II
  • *
  • Posts: 23
Re: Combat .. uhm.. Concerns? From irc
« Reply #79 on: April 22, 2014, 05:29:00 AM »
Just my 2 cents...

Reloading ist NOT losing.

It is WINNING (unless you play in Ironman mode). Why? Because the only option is to win. You can and probably will reload until you win the mission. There's nothing to lose ingame and this would be much more interesting, would be another layer.

I like the idea much better, that when you lose a battle, you lose much more time on the solar map, resources and any xtras you might gathered together. This is losing. It's the age old "you go to chail"-mechanic. It's not unheard of in games and it would be much better in line with the rest of the game i.e. solar map.

If I only lose some time in real life, what do I actually lose ingame? Nothing. Where's my risk. my decision to take this battle or not? There's none. I just reload.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2014, 05:34:26 AM by kosmoface »

Offline zespri

  • Hero Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,109
Re: Combat .. uhm.. Concerns? From irc
« Reply #80 on: April 22, 2014, 06:23:50 AM »
....how does it even get to that though?  This is the first I've even heard of it, which to me still says that if there IS a lose condition, it's sorta trivial at this point. And I dont think the game ever makes mention of this, either.  The idea that there's no way to lose seems prevalent.

But either way, the challenge level seems really off in some ways, with this.  It almost feels like you'd have to TRY to lose, or at least that's the impression I get so far, particularly from player experiences that I've heard up to this point.  This also just needs to be explained more.
I simply loaded this save http://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,15317.0.html and idled for a few minutes.

Offline BobTheJanitor

  • Master Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,689
Re: Combat .. uhm.. Concerns? From irc
« Reply #81 on: April 22, 2014, 10:01:00 AM »
I had a loss last night in which the Boarines took over the entire solar system. That may have been skewed a bit since they'd been building up ships for decades trying to take over planets thanks to the previously bugged planetary invasion rules, so I'm not sure how likely it is under normal growth conditions. But yeah, they built a fear empire and hunted down each federation member one at a time until they were all that was left. I still consider it a victory, in a way. Just because I backed the wrong horse doesn't mean that my goal of interplanetary unity wasn't achieved. Just that it was achieved by the wrong race.

Offline Giaddon

  • Newbie Mark II
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: Combat .. uhm.. Concerns? From irc
« Reply #82 on: April 24, 2014, 12:10:41 AM »
Since this seems to be the main thread about combat, I have what seems to be a bug, but I'm not sure...

Basically, my shots never hit enemy ships. The projectiles fade out of existence right before hitting an enemy ship without doing damage. I've tried manipulating my engine power and weapon power, but no matter how fast I am or how long range my shots are, they simply don't connect with enemies.

Anyone know why this might be happening?

Offline Misery

  • Arcen Volunteer
  • Core Member Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,109
Re: Combat .. uhm.. Concerns? From irc
« Reply #83 on: April 24, 2014, 12:12:56 AM »
Since this seems to be the main thread about combat, I have what seems to be a bug, but I'm not sure...

Basically, my shots never hit enemy ships. The projectiles fade out of existence right before hitting an enemy ship without doing damage. I've tried manipulating my engine power and weapon power, but no matter how fast I am or how long range my shots are, they simply don't connect with enemies.

Anyone know why this might be happening?

Hmm, I"m not sure I've ever seen this....


What happens if you get in real close and attack?  Preferrably while moving kinda slowly so you dont slide out of range.   And is this with all weapons, or just one?

Offline GC13

  • Full Member Mark III
  • ***
  • Posts: 204
Re: Combat .. uhm.. Concerns? From irc
« Reply #84 on: April 24, 2014, 12:13:21 AM »
Basically, my shots never hit enemy ships. The projectiles fade out of existence right before hitting an enemy ship without doing damage. I've tried manipulating my engine power and weapon power, but no matter how fast I am or how long range my shots are, they simply don't connect with enemies.

Anyone know why this might be happening?
They're kiting you: skidding just out of your weapon's maximum range. Due to union regulations, your weapon rounds only have to travel a set distance before it's quitting time, and you can only ask for a very limited amount of overtime by maxing out your weapon power.

What you need to do is turn around, and let them come back at you. Then you put all power to the engines, rush at them, then when the time is right (it will take some practice) you put full power to the weapons and just lay into them so close that the enemy captain can read your lips when you call him a jerk through your ship's window.
Furthermore, it is my opinion that Hari must be destroyed.

Offline Misery

  • Arcen Volunteer
  • Core Member Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,109
Re: Combat .. uhm.. Concerns? From irc
« Reply #85 on: April 24, 2014, 12:19:47 AM »
Basically, my shots never hit enemy ships. The projectiles fade out of existence right before hitting an enemy ship without doing damage. I've tried manipulating my engine power and weapon power, but no matter how fast I am or how long range my shots are, they simply don't connect with enemies.

Anyone know why this might be happening?
They're kiting you: skidding just out of your weapon's maximum range. Due to union regulations, your weapon rounds only have to travel a set distance before it's quitting time, and you can only ask for a very limited amount of overtime by maxing out your weapon power.

What you need to do is turn around, and let them come back at you. Then you put all power to the engines, rush at them, then when the time is right (it will take some practice) you put full power to the weapons and just lay into them so close that the enemy captain can read your lips when you call him a jerk through your ship's window.

Huh, is kiting still happening somehow?

The damn Velociters (however that's spelled) got changed, so they're not deranged speedsters anymore, they're properly slow now.... and I cant think of anything else capable of kiting that isnt an interceptor or hypersonic pod, and of course chasing one of THOSE around is just silly.

Offline GC13

  • Full Member Mark III
  • ***
  • Posts: 204
Re: Combat .. uhm.. Concerns? From irc
« Reply #86 on: April 24, 2014, 12:21:55 AM »
The most common culprits are the Velociter B-types, that spawn without the shields. They still move fast enough to keep my shots from landing on them if I'm on the chase, but they're not the only ones who have the ability to do this to me.
Furthermore, it is my opinion that Hari must be destroyed.

Offline kasnavada

  • Hero Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 976
Re: Combat .. uhm.. Concerns? From irc
« Reply #87 on: April 24, 2014, 02:05:04 AM »
If you move back from those which are faster than you, they charge you. Then, they die.

I never had a problem being kited in any game, because of this. Maybe this behaviour should be coded into the enemies... if they feel that they're being kited, they move out of range.

Offline Azurian

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 120
  • Space is a beautiful place
Re: Combat .. uhm.. Concerns? From irc
« Reply #88 on: April 24, 2014, 02:08:04 AM »
I really wish there was Mines available, so you can trick them into following you and if you plan it right, they blow up in your mindfield.
PLEASE REPORT FEEDBACK TO MANTIS IF YOU WANT THEM TO SEE IT!
http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/view_all_bug_page.php