Author Topic: Alpha plans for the solar map part, as of the 9th.  (Read 2901 times)

Offline x4000

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Alpha plans for the solar map part, as of the 9th.
« on: February 09, 2014, 09:23:03 pm »
So, I'm still not at the point where I want to start the next stage of alpha where we let players into the solar map.  Right now there have just been too many things that I've been going through and cleaning up.  I went through what I think are a lot of the slowest-to-update screens today (knock on wood), and made them more informative and attractive, etc (video coming soon, so...).  There are still some substantial balance things I need to put in there as well in terms of contracts and BP, and a few remaining major interface bits and bobs.

Overall it is proceeding really well, it's just a big job.  Boy is this sure a fun game, though, I have to say.  Even just watching what the races get up to is fun, and the work I was doing today was aimed at making the history of things a lot clearer to understand at a macro level, which really aids the fun factor for me.  That was always one of my favorite things about older RTS games like Age of Empires or Warcraft II that had detailed info about what happened as things went along.  It's really interesting being able to see the same sort of thing here, and the uniqueness of each solar system definitely comes out.

Anyway, my revised goal is to get this out to players tomorrow.  Honestly I am probably spending more time polishing this than I have to for the first batch, but I'm already confident it is fun, so I'd rather not get a lot of white noise back from players about polish stuff I already know needs to be done.  This can't be delayed much longer if we want proper testing done, but I really want the clarity and the balance to be in the ballpark before I start getting people messing with it.  I'm getting close on that. :)

So for those wondering when you'll ever see the solar map stuff... not quite yet, but soon! :)  It will be worth the wait, I promise.
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Offline GrimerX

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Re: Alpha plans for the solar map part, as of the 9th.
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2014, 01:07:38 am »
Looking forward to it!

I'm behind on my reading, so this may be answered somewhere already, but this is roughly what I am expecting/hoping for -- let me know if you're thinking along different lines so I can get my expectations in order :)

Very broadly speaking:
1) You win on the solar map, you avoid loosing on the tactical map.  Most of your progress comes from making the right decisions on solar, and avoid loosing ground during combat
2) On the solar map, you can't take advantage of all your options, so you have to make hard choices.  Eg, maybe with contracts you get 3 to choose from and can pick only one -- you can't go back and take one of the others later (and don't know what is or is not coming in the future...).  Each one would have consequences of not taking them as well -- so sometimes you take one for the payoff, sometimes to avoid the cost.
Making a big guess as to what 'contract' means here :)

Anyway, I know that's pretty vague in terms of mechanics and if you've written it up already just point me there -- I've missed a lot on the forums since ~November unfortunately.

-Ian

Offline x4000

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Re: Alpha plans for the solar map part, as of the 9th.
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2014, 09:53:39 am »
1. Yes, absolutely.

2. In spirit yes, although the execution is different.  You can pretty much take any option at any time... circumstances permitting.  If you have really angered a race, for instance, a lot of political deals with them are just closed off, etc.  And a lot of things require Bargaining Power, which you have a finite amount of.  And typically taking one action has several consequences, some good and some bad.  So you typically wind up opening some doors and closing others with a series of actions.

There are very rarely actions where it is like "don't do this or something bad happens."  In a cheesy sort of timer-like fashion.  Rather, there's a whole simulation going on, and if two races are at war, you can do various things to help or hinder one of them in various ways.  Or you might ignore them.  But you can watch the war, and intervene in ways that are optimal to you, while it happens.  So that's time limited, but not in a sense of "oh, there's a timer running."  It's just a matter of how long it takes for the war to go on, and what else happens during it.

There are a couple of "do this before the timer runs out" cases, but they are exceedingly rare.  Most of the time it is a race that is taking some sort of desperate destructive last-resort action, like blowing up their planet or strapping rockets to a moon to send to another planet.  You might actually be fine with them doing those things, so in that case not acting before the timer runs out is fine.  Or you may very decidedly NOT be okay with that, in which case you need to intervene in some way -- either help encourage other races to kill them off before they can complete it, or help them back out of said corner so they call it off themselves, etc.
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Offline Mick

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Re: Alpha plans for the solar map part, as of the 9th.
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2014, 10:17:49 am »
I really like the sound of things that happen if you aren't there to influence the result (caveat. if the player doesn't know cool stuff happened "in the background", it might as well not have happened at all). So I hope the game offers a lot of crunchy feedback to give the player the sense that it's a living breathing world.

If you look at a game like Skyrim (not the same genre, I know), it always annoyed me that there wasn't any timers on anything. I'm sure that was a design choice because "players hate timers", but it meant there was no opportunity cost to any of your choices. For all the illusion they tried to create that it was a living breathing world, the world beyond your vision effectively was put on pause. Bandits are holding a hostage for ransom? No worries, you can get to it whenever. They'll keep feeding the hostage for months if that's what it takes.

Offline x4000

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Re: Alpha plans for the solar map part, as of the 9th.
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2014, 10:22:33 am »
There's a lot of insight into not just what is happening, but also what has happened recently, or a long time in the past.  There are a bunch of ways that data is rolled up, so to speak, because there is a lot of it.  You have the various things the aliens say about what happened in a twitter-like log, you have literal logs of events and population graphs and so forth, you have visibility into structures and whatnot, you can drill down into racial attitudes and see collectively why they love or hate X race (all the factors therein, and which are heaviest), etc.

There actually are timers all over the place in terms of how long it takes races to complete various actions, or how long certain events last, and you can see those things as well.  So those are aspects of the world that are breathing around you.  But it's rare that you just HAVE to do something because of any of those timers.  It's more a factor of "okay, this is what is going on for now, and I can know that's what will continue for another 5 minutes, so I don't have to check back every second."  Etc.
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Offline mrhanman

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Re: Alpha plans for the solar map part, as of the 9th.
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2014, 11:09:31 am »
Will there be an option to auto-resolve combat?  I remember it being mentioned before, though not in the context that it was going into this game.

Offline x4000

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Re: Alpha plans for the solar map part, as of the 9th.
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2014, 11:12:43 am »
Will there be an option to auto-resolve combat?  I remember it being mentioned before, though not in the context that it was going into this game.

We had planned that, and for a long time we did have that.  Past a certain point it no longer made any sense, however, and just did not fit with the game; so there is no longer that ability, and I don't see that ever coming back.  Combat is just too complex to really give a meaningful "you win automatically" sort of result.  You always have inferior forces, so there's no way to calculate victory based on just force comparisons.  Since battles are all about your tactics and maneuvers and so on, that can't really be automated unless we just randomly rolled some dice or something to say "we bet you did this well!" or something, heh.
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Offline mrhanman

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Re: Alpha plans for the solar map part, as of the 9th.
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2014, 11:16:25 am »
I'm kind of relieved it won't be there.  In games that have it, I tend to use it as a crutch.  As long as the combat is varied enough, TLF shouldn't need an option like that, anyway.

Offline x4000

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Re: Alpha plans for the solar map part, as of the 9th.
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2014, 11:17:56 am »
Yep.  Originally combat was something more of a minigame, in a lot of respects, for this game.  At least that's how I viewed it.  The real meat was the solar map.  Well, the solar map is still just as meaty, but now the combat has some very serious legs of its own.  So it's definitely not a minigame anymore, and it's really tightly tied into the main game now more than ever.
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Offline GrimerX

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Re: Alpha plans for the solar map part, as of the 9th.
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2014, 01:00:37 pm »
1. Yes, absolutely.

2. In spirit yes, although the execution is different.  You can pretty much take any option at any time... circumstances permitting.  If you have really angered a race, for instance, a lot of political deals with them are just closed off, etc.  And a lot of things require Bargaining Power, which you have a finite amount of.  And typically taking one action has several consequences, some good and some bad.  So you typically wind up opening some doors and closing others with a series of actions.

There are very rarely actions where it is like "don't do this or something bad happens."  In a cheesy sort of timer-like fashion.  Rather, there's a whole simulation going on, and if two races are at war, you can do various things to help or hinder one of them in various ways.  Or you might ignore them.  But you can watch the war, and intervene in ways that are optimal to you, while it happens.  So that's time limited, but not in a sense of "oh, there's a timer running."  It's just a matter of how long it takes for the war to go on, and what else happens during it.

There are a couple of "do this before the timer runs out" cases, but they are exceedingly rare.  Most of the time it is a race that is taking some sort of desperate destructive last-resort action, like blowing up their planet or strapping rockets to a moon to send to another planet.  You might actually be fine with them doing those things, so in that case not acting before the timer runs out is fine.  Or you may very decidedly NOT be okay with that, in which case you need to intervene in some way -- either help encourage other races to kill them off before they can complete it, or help them back out of said corner so they call it off themselves, etc.

Sounds very cool, definitely looking forward to it.  Good thing I have some time off coming up :)

Offline Hyfrydle

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Re: Alpha plans for the solar map part, as of the 9th.
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2014, 12:00:27 pm »
Any updates on the solar map part? Keep staying up super late every night in anticipation  :)

Offline x4000

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Re: Alpha plans for the solar map part, as of the 9th.
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2014, 12:03:52 pm »
Sorry about that!

I am hoping to have that out today.  I think it MIGHT be possible by 5pm EST, but we'll see.  It will be a real close call if it is.
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Offline Hyfrydle

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Re: Alpha plans for the solar map part, as of the 9th.
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2014, 12:49:04 pm »
Cheers for the heads up I'm sure your all working super hard to make our jobs easier.

Offline Mick

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Re: Alpha plans for the solar map part, as of the 9th.
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2014, 01:20:54 pm »
I promised myself I wouldn't get hyped, but I'm totally getting hyped!

Offline YoukaiCountry

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Re: Alpha plans for the solar map part, as of the 9th.
« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2014, 01:49:56 pm »
You can't stop the hype train!
It's making it a little hard for me to concentrate on what I'm supposed to be doing!