Author Topic: "Docking Turns Added Back From DMG: 1"  (Read 1803 times)

Offline LaGrange

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"Docking Turns Added Back From DMG: 1"
« on: May 06, 2014, 05:24:28 PM »
[This is from playing beta 1.014]

I'm trying to dock with the 'Hydral Technology Lab' in a combat mission. It takes five turns once the process starts. I have all weapons turned off. I simply hit 'Q' 'Q' to keep on docking until the next turn. Unfortunately, the red text repeatedly comes up: "Docking Turns Added Back From DMG: 1". This prolongs the process indefinitely until I die. But I'm not giving damage to any ships. I didn't even fire off an 'Operation Kamchi' etc. at any earlier point, such that its damage would be done at this later point and therefore count as damage from me.

So why are the docking turns being reset?

Thanks.

(BTW, the screenshot shows my flagship a bit off-center, but this problem happens even if it's right on top of the research lab.)

Offline Draco18s

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Re: "Docking Turns Added Back From DMG: 1"
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2014, 05:26:16 PM »
You're taking damage.  Specifically, hull damage

Offline LaGrange

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Re: "Docking Turns Added Back From DMG: 1"
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2014, 07:27:26 PM »
You're taking damage.  Specifically, hull damage
LOL. There must have been a description of this kind of mission where that was explained, but it is now lost in the misty reaches of (week-ago) time.

OK, so I have to dock without taking damage. So is the idea that I first destroy all surrounding ships that could damage me, and then I dock?

Offline GC13

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Re: "Docking Turns Added Back From DMG: 1"
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2014, 07:33:22 PM »
Just autoresolve the fight. You'll win on turn twelve.

Or you could just frag everything and dock, yeah.
Furthermore, it is my opinion that Hari must be destroyed.

Offline LaGrange

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Re: "Docking Turns Added Back From DMG: 1"
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2014, 08:55:24 PM »
Just autoresolve the fight. You'll win on turn twelve.

Or you could just frag everything and dock, yeah.
Interesting. I took autoresolve to be an option for people who were bored with the combat part of the game for some reason, whereas that part is never boring for me, so I've never used autoresolve.

Offline GC13

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Re: "Docking Turns Added Back From DMG: 1"
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2014, 09:02:53 PM »
The Hydral lab missions are pretty boring. Standard eight-weapons-three-engines power configuration, spreadshot on autofire, circle until all enemies are dead.
Furthermore, it is my opinion that Hari must be destroyed.

Offline lifehole

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Re: "Docking Turns Added Back From DMG: 1"
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2014, 09:41:37 PM »
The Hydral lab missions are pretty boring. Standard eight-weapons-three-engines power configuration, spreadshot on autofire, circle until all enemies are dead.

The game kinda suffers an overall boringness due to this. There doesn't seem to be a lot of room for different strategies, with there being too obvious an optimum, resulting in having the game seem too easy/simple/grindy.

Offline Misery

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Re: "Docking Turns Added Back From DMG: 1"
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2014, 11:23:36 PM »
Honestly, best answer to combat boredom is to up the difficulty.  The lower ones are... dull.  Too simple, too easy.  Cant tolerate them myself.

That being said, the Hydral tech ones could do with some sort of upgrade.  The golems are pretty easy (and this being on Misery) and the missile turrets are no threat.  Missiles are only a problem when there's tons of bullets flying in every direction with high density, which just isnt the case in that mission type.


Offline GC13

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Re: "Docking Turns Added Back From DMG: 1"
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2014, 11:34:43 PM »
I don't see how the higher difficulties are more fun. There's obviously less room for error, but I don't see the fun in that.

Combat is more fun when it requires me to change what I'm doing because the situation changed. I kind of like speeding up to get alongside someone, then putting full power to weapons and letting them have it. Then I divert more power to engines and blast away with my spreadshot at all of the small ships creeping up on me, and continue the cycle. It's a lot more entertaining than the absurdly boring Hydral lab, Assassin, and Burlust Warlord duels where all you need to do is fly around in circles shooting your highest DPS weapon out of the window.
Furthermore, it is my opinion that Hari must be destroyed.

Offline Misery

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Re: "Docking Turns Added Back From DMG: 1"
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2014, 01:20:01 AM »
I don't see how the higher difficulties are more fun. There's obviously less room for error, but I don't see the fun in that.

Combat is more fun when it requires me to change what I'm doing because the situation changed. I kind of like speeding up to get alongside someone, then putting full power to weapons and letting them have it. Then I divert more power to engines and blast away with my spreadshot at all of the small ships creeping up on me, and continue the cycle. It's a lot more entertaining than the absurdly boring Hydral lab, Assassin, and Burlust Warlord duels where all you need to do is fly around in circles shooting your highest DPS weapon out of the window.

Actually, that pretty much is what I meant.

Using dull, repetetive strategies simply doesnt work on the higher ones... you *will* get destroyed.

Dodging stuff is important, but that's not all there is to it.  If all there was to it was that damage was higher, it'd still be boring.  But the other changes, such as dramatically increased attack range on the part of the enemy, changes things alot.  You cant just sit back and take potshots anymore... doesnt work.  You cant just keep the weapons/shields/engines at a steady rate either.  It's not uncommon for me to be changing those every single turn when playing this, mostly because I have to, in order to not be exploded.  The increased attack power/damage of enemies just inflates all of these changes.  Your tactics need to be always considering the current shape of the battlefield, by which I mean all of the patterns that are changing and flowing around you.  This of course also affects your decisions on when to use your various abilities.

In other words, the situation changes *much* faster and way more often than on the lower ones.  Frankly, I found in Normal, the situation *never* changed.  Type of battle didn't matter... number of enemies didn't matter... type of enemies didn't matter.  I'm great at tactical stuff, but I didn't need any of that skill whatsoever on that difficulty.  Utterly mindless.


It's very, very similar to the problem that Bionic Dues had.  That game is very deep... but only on high difficulties.  On Normal, it's bloody mindless.  "Normal" in many of Arcen's games, to me, usually seems like it should be "easy" or "very easy".  And one of the reasons is that there's just no risk.  As much as I like Arcen's games, those games tend to fall apart at low difficulties, where there's no threat/risk, because suddenly you simply dont NEED half of the mechanics that are available to you.  Which has always been my one main problem with them.  I've seen LPers start LPs on these, but of course they choose the base difficulty, and as such they get just a few episodes in, and.... that's it, they just stop, because it's not being interesting at all.

It's also one of the reasons why I'm always clamoring for the difficulty to be raised ever higher.  The games just end up better that way.   Granted, I say this for ALOT of games, but it rings true even moreso with Arcen's stuff.

Offline zespri

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Re: "Docking Turns Added Back From DMG: 1"
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2014, 03:44:55 AM »
The Hydral lab missions are pretty boring. Standard eight-weapons-three-engines power configuration, spreadshot on autofire, circle until all enemies are dead.

The game kinda suffers an overall boringness due to this. There doesn't seem to be a lot of room for different strategies, with there being too obvious an optimum, resulting in having the game seem too easy/simple/grindy.
Like on nightmare?

Offline zespri

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Re: "Docking Turns Added Back From DMG: 1"
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2014, 03:47:07 AM »
I don't see how the higher difficulties are more fun. There's obviously less room for error, but I don't see the fun in that.

Combat is more fun when it requires me to change what I'm doing because the situation changed. I kind of like speeding up to get alongside someone, then putting full power to weapons and letting them have it. Then I divert more power to engines and blast away with my spreadshot at all of the small ships creeping up on me, and continue the cycle. It's a lot more entertaining than the absurdly boring Hydral lab, Assassin, and Burlust Warlord duels where all you need to do is fly around in circles shooting your highest DPS weapon out of the window.
I think the idea is that on higher difficulties your tried and proven boring strategies do not work any longer. So you have to come up with something else.

Offline Misery

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Re: "Docking Turns Added Back From DMG: 1"
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2014, 04:27:28 AM »
I don't see how the higher difficulties are more fun. There's obviously less room for error, but I don't see the fun in that.

Combat is more fun when it requires me to change what I'm doing because the situation changed. I kind of like speeding up to get alongside someone, then putting full power to weapons and letting them have it. Then I divert more power to engines and blast away with my spreadshot at all of the small ships creeping up on me, and continue the cycle. It's a lot more entertaining than the absurdly boring Hydral lab, Assassin, and Burlust Warlord duels where all you need to do is fly around in circles shooting your highest DPS weapon out of the window.
I think the idea is that on higher difficulties your tried and proven boring strategies do not work any longer. So you have to come up with something else.

Yep.

No kiting, or just spraying absolutely everything with the spreadshot.   Cant ignore your abilities either, like you can on Normal.   

All in all I find it very engaging overall, and I wouldnt if it was really simplistic.

Offline zespri

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Re: "Docking Turns Added Back From DMG: 1"
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2014, 05:59:06 AM »
Yep.

No kiting, or just spraying absolutely everything with the spreadshot.   Cant ignore your abilities either, like you can on Normal.   

All in all I find it very engaging overall, and I wouldnt if it was really simplistic.
Not everyone is as hardcore as you. I do not think that the default slider difficulty on normal is a problem. If anyone needs a challenge it's just a click away. Yes, of course if you mastered normal it's boring. And many people will come to that... eventually. So just turn the heat up. Others will never come this far and will be happy pwning on normal and still having fun. I know it can be hard to understand but it's true =) I actually think that if you turned the default up a notch, it would have overall negative effect in reviews/lets play/etc because people would find it frustratingly difficult. I think it's better off the way it is.

Offline DrFranknfurter

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Re: "Docking Turns Added Back From DMG: 1"
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2014, 06:12:25 AM »
I think Normal is just fine for catering to a wide range of abilities, ages, concentration and general experience with similar games without being too hard. I found Tidalis a little hard on normal and half wished the first few games were on a lower difficulty setting but once you get into a game, any game, the increase in difficulty keeps it engaging. You always need to have a difficulty setting that feels too far, something you can strive to beat and feel like you've mastered the game... like Difficulty 10 on AI war.

I'd like to see enemies using new weapons or even the odd ability to spice up those fights but I think that the added difficulty could make for bigger barrier to entry unless it's phased in slowly, like with the ship unlocks a few years into the game.