Author Topic: The Return of the Zeph!  (Read 4869 times)

Offline Misery

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Re: The Return of the Zeph!
« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2016, 11:45:43 PM »
Bah, just how bloated do I need to make that damn boss?  Alright, I've changed him.  He now has way more HP than anything else in the game.  Like, a lot more.  Good luck taking it down quickly now... I buffed his two guardians too.  It's possible I may have gone overboard.

Anyway I've been working on the enemy HP, I'll have something sent in within the next few days here, in time for Chris to be able to send it out when he's available. 

Some enemies were a little... off, yes.  I found one that had 15 HP.   15!  And it was a local guard, too.  I'd like to say "it probably made sense at the time" but.... no, it probably didn't.

On the note of defensive drones, they do need a couple of changes.  Granted, it's a problem with any defensive item in this game, really.  It's very difficult to actually get the things right as balance goes.  I'm going to actually test a few ideas on my end, with those.  But just looking at that fight in the video, there's no way Terminus could have put up all that much of a fight with those in place, even if he'd lasted a lot longer and regardless of stat balance.  It's pattern would have to be absolutely berserk to pierce that defense, not much I can do without going overboard.

Well, no.... technically there's one other thing I could do for that boss but I've been reluctant to do that.  But we'll see.

Offline Pepisolo

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Re: The Return of the Zeph!
« Reply #16 on: May 12, 2016, 08:57:37 AM »
Regarding Terminus, I actually may have mislead a bit. It's the two guardians that seemed to really need the HP boost, although a bit of a boost to Terminus itself is fine, too. The first guardian, especially, hardly needed to have its attacks dodged because it went down so fast.

As for the Defender Drones, really, balancing those is probably just a matter of altering the fire rate of their bursts. The design itself seems fine. Currently the bursts are every 20 seconds. Basically, how long does the player need to fend for themselves before they get a shot clearing burst? 20 seconds seems fairly reasonable, but maybe you could push that out to 30 seconds.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2016, 10:22:50 AM by Pepisolo »

Offline Misery

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Re: The Return of the Zeph!
« Reply #17 on: May 12, 2016, 04:35:08 PM »
Regarding Terminus, I actually may have mislead a bit. It's the two guardians that seemed to really need the HP boost, although a bit of a boost to Terminus itself is fine, too. The first guardian, especially, hardly needed to have its attacks dodged because it went down so fast.

As for the Defender Drones, really, balancing those is probably just a matter of altering the fire rate of their bursts. The design itself seems fine. Currently the bursts are every 20 seconds. Basically, how long does the player need to fend for themselves before they get a shot clearing burst? 20 seconds seems fairly reasonable, but maybe you could push that out to 30 seconds.

With Terminus I just boosted everything; The guardians HP was low, yes, really low, but when I went and looked at the main boss itself, well... it wasn't very high either, but the bosses before it, on floor 6, were.  They were much higher!  As opposed to say, the Warden VS bosses before it. 

The guardians didn't get THAT much of a boost (basically, enough to equal a boss on floor 6, though guardian #2 got less of one); one way or another each one is just one pattern, and they're not what I call "attrition" patterns; they're not made difficult by spending large amounts of time in them.  But the patterns used by the main boss are, as that's how they were made from the start.  Kinda like the Warden's 5th phase (which has a lot more HP than it's other phases).  Like the Warden the fight overall just plain needed to be longer, as Altar said in the other topic.

And yes, those drones, they mostly need to fire slower.   Those and the slowdown drones though should only appear once though; frankly, MOST items in the game should only be appearing once, but specifically for those two, it doesn't help to have more than one.  The slowdown one can cause problems with some patterns as it is (creating walls, slowing down bullets isn't always the best defensive move, heh) and as mentioned elsewhere the drone with the defensive flare is useless when you already have one, so there's no reason to throw another in the player's face.  I do think the price on that one needs to go up, it's good enough even if slowed down, to be a "buy every time" sort of item.

Though the main thing that was more of an actual "problem" since I assume it wasn't supposed to be like this was the part where the last couple of floors are only selling those two drones and the flame trail one... 

Offline windlesszephyr

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Re: The Return of the Zeph!
« Reply #18 on: May 13, 2016, 05:26:17 AM »
I just finished recording the next run, and a thought occurred to me that I feel I need to ask whether or not my commentary is actually helpful or entertaining. I mean, I found myself talking a lot about criticisms I have of the game and of things that I think need changed, even though I'm not sure I have the right to be so... critical, I guess. Finding little things so often to gripe about feels like nitpicking, which doesn't necessarily feel good to do, and I imagine it's probably annoying to listen to.

...dunno where I'm going with this, it's just late and I feel contemplative about things. I guess I just want to know if I'm actually doing things right by you guys, even though I keep asking for things to be altered more or less on a whim while I'm talking. Commentary is hard, yo.

Offline Misery

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Re: The Return of the Zeph!
« Reply #19 on: May 13, 2016, 08:18:45 AM »
Haha, feel free to nitpick as much as you want.  If there's something that seems annoying for whatever reason, feel free to say so.   That doesn't necessarily mean that thing in question will actually get a change mind you, but it's easiest to find problems by listening to honest feedback.  Keyword there being "honest", I for one don't want someone telling me something is good when it's actually not.  I'm betting that Chris would also have similar thoughts on this.  When something is off, it's best to hear about it.

And really you'd be surprised at how complainy I get about the game myself.  Well, okay, maybe it's not actually surprising.  But I can get REALLY negative about it.  So I've no trouble with some negative comments from others.  And yes I absolutely will get irked by things I made myself. 

There are certain issues I'm definitely aware of and will be fixing but just haven't done yet (for example, the chompers with the extra long range) so some things you mention may already be in the "going to do something about it" category.

Anyway, you're not annoying to listen to.  I don't know about the others, but I don't bother watching videos from someone on YouTube if I find that person's commentary to be at all annoying ;)


Though, if you have any particularly major complaints, if some enemy/boss seems like a bloody disaster or if some item or other is OP or useless or... anything really...  the best thing to do with THOSE is to post them on the forums here.  It's one thing to hear about them in the video, but for me at least my memory is very bad.  The others might not have that issue, but I sure do, so having it down in writing here on the forums helps ALOT.

Offline Pepisolo

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Re: The Return of the Zeph!
« Reply #20 on: May 13, 2016, 09:16:58 AM »
Basically, what Misery said. :)

I think our perspective as Freaking Volunteers is a little different in that we find feedback and criticism of the game pretty useful, so we maybe like these types of videos more than your average viewer. Personally, I'm always entertained by your videos, aside from maybe when you were getting super-frustrated with the game before the latest patch. Constructive criticism is always helpful, even if it's a bit nitpicky, although as Misery says we can't guarantee that every piece of feedback will bring about changes.

Offline ptarth

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Re: The Return of the Zeph!
« Reply #21 on: May 13, 2016, 03:47:48 PM »
It depends on how you want to style your content and develop your Youtube Career, and I don't know enough about your plans to provide much direction. Youtube commentators have a wide range of roles, personalities, and areas of expertise. The simplest way might be to identify which current Youtubers you think you want to be like and then consider how you are different (or not) and what steps you feel like taking in response to that. As an illustration consider the differences between PewDiePie, TotalBiscuit, and The Yogscast. Each of them are very popular, but their content and their on camera attitudes are all very different (and all of them are very scripted as well, even if it doesn't seem like it to the casual users). Once you have an idea on what you want to do, then the rest should follow. One caveat is to also consider the impact that success and their adopted personalities had upon their own lifestyles and health. It may not seem important now, but changing your style midcareer causes it own issues.

Note: This post contains content that is meant to be whimsical. Any belittlement or trivialization of complex issues is only intended to lighten the mood and does not reflect upon the merit of those positions.

Offline windlesszephyr

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Re: The Return of the Zeph!
« Reply #22 on: May 14, 2016, 03:55:29 AM »
Okay, this is good to hear on all counts, thanks guys. I'm happy knowing that I'm doing something right at least, and I suppose if I encounter anything that's super jarring I'll point it out here instead of moaning about it in my videos. If it's something tiny though, welllllllll... I may just rag on it for comedic effect ;D

And ptarth, I appreciate the advice. Believe me, I've spent a lot of time researching professional gaming on youtube, and while I may not be where I want to be yet I know full well what I'm getting myself into. I'm kinda modeling what I do after Northernlion, Bisnap, and Sleepcycles (all of whom would probably love Starward Rogue, come to think of it), since their styles are based less on heavy editing and personas and more on commentary and gameplay. Ideally, I'd stream more often than I do, but since youtube has to contend with my job, I don't often find the time I'd like to devote; yt is a lot more resource management friendly, insofar as time is a resource of which I have a limited amount.

Offline Pepisolo

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Re: The Return of the Zeph!
« Reply #23 on: May 14, 2016, 08:24:40 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssrxA5UWVkc

Next Episode: True Sniper

SPOILERS


This episode has a very interesting build. Redshift Mech, so Precision Railgun, and the Sky Hammer is picked up early, so.....Dual Snipers! Throw in Magnetic Offense and Two Shield Drones and you're looking at a very strong build. Criticism from Zeph: Magnetic Offense appears too often. Anangu Boomerangs apparently can't be destroyed, not sure if this is good or bad. Looks like this is going to be a pretty successful run, although Zeph is having to concentrate rather than just decimating everything without thought. A question, Limiter Removal...this kind of sucks and needs an overhaul?

Offline Logorouge

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Re: The Return of the Zeph!
« Reply #24 on: May 14, 2016, 08:42:56 PM »
Anangu Boomerangs apparently can't be destroyed, not sure if this is good or bad.
I haven't seen the episode yet, but the boomerangs can definitely be destroyed if you cancel their core.

Offline Misery

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Re: The Return of the Zeph!
« Reply #25 on: May 14, 2016, 08:51:20 PM »
Let's see....

I've no idea about Magnetic offense.  Sounds like RNG.  MANY items though, should be set to only appear once.  Most aren't.  That should be changed, to force the game to keep variety going throughout (which is the exact reason why many games of this type do that; nobody likes that feeling of "What?  But this appeared earlier and I didn't want it then either!  That's disappointing!"). Only certain items should be able to appear more than once.   I might set a bunch of these myself so don't be surprised if I suddenly send in something like that.

Anangu boomerangs will receive no changes for now.

Shield drones, bah.

And Limiter Removal.... terrible.  There's no reason to ever use it.  I cant think of a possible way to make it NOT suck, it's one of those occaisional items that maybe made some sense early on in development (when a totally different style of enemy attacks was planned, though I never figured out why anyone thought that'd happen with me being on the project...) but makes no sense whatsoever now.  It should be replaced, honestly.


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Okay, this is good to hear on all counts, thanks guys. I'm happy knowing that I'm doing something right at least, and I suppose if I encounter anything that's super jarring I'll point it out here instead of moaning about it in my videos. If it's something tiny though, welllllllll... I may just rag on it for comedic effect ;D

And ptarth, I appreciate the advice. Believe me, I've spent a lot of time researching professional gaming on youtube, and while I may not be where I want to be yet I know full well what I'm getting myself into. I'm kinda modeling what I do after Northernlion, Bisnap, and Sleepcycles (all of whom would probably love Starward Rogue, come to think of it), since their styles are based less on heavy editing and personas and more on commentary and gameplay. Ideally, I'd stream more often than I do, but since youtube has to contend with my job, I don't often find the time I'd like to devote; yt is a lot more resource management friendly, insofar as time is a resource of which I have a limited amount.

Yeah, I agree with that style of commentary and such.  I subscribe to all 3 of those guys, and their style keeps me coming back.  I particularly like that they actually stay on the bloody topic.  When I've watched certain other popular ones, such as Game Grumps, well... ugh.  I just cant watch those guys.  They'll be playing the game, on topic for like 2 minutes, and then one of them will start to tell some loooong and supposedly funny story about something that happened to some friend at a McDonalds are something.  A lot of Youtubers do this, it just... bugs me.  I mean going off topic a little bit every now and then is okay, certainly NorthernLion and Sleepcycles do that (and Sleepcycles can get hilariously nonsensical with that) but they get back to the actual game commentary quickly.   I mean, if I wanted to watch people just yap about whatever the whole damn time, there's other videos I could go to, surely.

And yeah, those 3 possibly might like Starward.  All 3 of them were contacted, but nothing came of it.  Though, to be fair, they only have so much room on their plates for so many games, each can only really concentrate on a very few at a time since they're focused on putting out LOTS of videos.  And I cant see them going for anything that doesn't have a quite large fanbase already (risky time investment, regardless of what they may think personally).
« Last Edit: May 14, 2016, 08:52:56 PM by Misery »

Offline Draco18s

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Re: The Return of the Zeph!
« Reply #26 on: May 14, 2016, 11:17:49 PM »
nobody likes that feeling of "What?  But this appeared earlier and I didn't want it then either!  That's disappointing!"

OTOH there's "I don't have the money and I want it, why did it have to show up on Floor 1?" or "It was in a room I couldn't get into because I didn't have any keys."

If it was possible to shove items back into the to_seed collection if they're never even viewed, that would be rather handy.

Offline Pepisolo

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Re: The Return of the Zeph!
« Reply #27 on: May 15, 2016, 09:27:21 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuDqNk1vDT8

Episode 41: Flow

SPOILERS


This seems like one of the first low DPS runs. Zeph is running a very strong defensive build.  Redshift Mech, The One, Sky Hammer, Double Shield Drones, +1 Max Shields, and that's about it. Even though some DPS boosting items have been taken, the Warden still took 7 minutes to take down. Even Wallmaster V2 seemed fairly tanky with this build. (Wallmaster V2 note from Zeph, maybe give the guy some different, harder patterns to V1).  The lack of offense is mostly due to running only a Tier 1 main, having no offensive familiars, and also having no offensive modules.  Zeph seems to be really feeling the lack of DPS, but will this still apply to floors 6 and 7? It probably should unless some more offensive upgrades are taken, or this will be further evidence that floors 6 and 7 are a bit off. Also, there was a nice compliment about the game that Misery should appreciate, along the lines of Starward Rogue making Zeph interested in possibly trying out a proper Touhou game (something I should do myself actually, I have no experience of those games).

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I haven't seen the episode yet, but the boomerangs can definitely be destroyed if you cancel their core.

Ah, good to know, thanks.

Offline ptarth

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Re: The Return of the Zeph!
« Reply #28 on: May 15, 2016, 09:45:34 PM »
His DPS isn't actually that low. The Sniper Rifle is a Tier 1 weapon, but he has been picking up + damage items. He would get about double damage switching to a Tier 3 weapon. The confusion comes from his massive collection of fire rate increasers, which keeps DPS constant, but increases his fire rate (at the cost of damage). He is mostly talking about his damage PER shot being low, which it is. The other half of this is because of the building of fire rate, the building of raw damage has also suffered. As the the use of the weapon, The Sniper Rifle depends on critical hit chance and piercing to do extra damage, which requires lining up enemies, and continuing to improve critical hit range further. He noted in the video that his damage went up (1 shot kills again), but it was actually a string of critical hits doing the work.

And interesting preference question is: Is Redshift better with fast fire rate weapons or slow ones. WZ is of the opinion that slow fire rate weapons are best (i.e., sniper rifle, but then he spends his credits building fire rate). I think that the fast fire rate weapons are better, but to be honest this is a gut feeling and I haven't checked any math on it.
Note: This post contains content that is meant to be whimsical. Any belittlement or trivialization of complex issues is only intended to lighten the mood and does not reflect upon the merit of those positions.

Offline Pepisolo

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Re: The Return of the Zeph!
« Reply #29 on: May 16, 2016, 08:53:37 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQliKsX7NAo

Episode 42: Noncommittal

SPOILERS


Note to self: the consumable that blasts fire is bugged and seems to produce a second laser sight.

Floor 6 did seem to provide some challenge, although the lack of DPS wasn't as noticeable as pre-Warden. A few damage boosting choices were made, though. Contaminated ammo was taken. Aggressor seemed to be taken down very quickly. Much more easily than the Warden. Zeph rushed straight to Terminus on floor 7. One of the phases of Terminus seemed to be largely cheesed by using the Shield Drones to clear the spawning bullet.  Terminus did pose some threat, though, even with the 2 Shield Drones for protection., and the run could have been in danger of being a loss (assuming that Zeph didn't realize he had Nanite Leeches). 2 Shield Drones...yeah, very strong, but not super broken, at least. There are possibly a few more boss bullets that need to be made immune to interception, though.