Author Topic: Steam-exclusive AGAIN?  (Read 31589 times)

Offline Aklyon

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Re: Steam-exclusive AGAIN?
« Reply #45 on: March 01, 2016, 07:22:16 pm »
Well this got confusing fast.

To sum up, GOG are dicks, we want SR DRM-free and aren't picky where we get it.
But also that it is coming, but Chris is pretty busy.

Offline x4000

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Re: Steam-exclusive AGAIN?
« Reply #46 on: March 01, 2016, 07:56:03 pm »
Well this got confusing fast.

To sum up, GOG are dicks, we want SR DRM-free and aren't picky where we get it.
But also that it is coming, but Chris is pretty busy.

And GOG aren't actually dicks, they're just trying to do a hard thing (effective curation) in a difficult situation (a super crowded market), and they happen to have made some choices that we don't specifically agree with.
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Offline KingIsaacLinksr

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Re: Steam-exclusive AGAIN?
« Reply #47 on: March 01, 2016, 10:19:11 pm »
Let's also keep in mind that Valve used to curate Steam pretty heavily not too long ago and they were absolutely terrible at it. Developers would be denied for the most base or dumbest of reasons. While others would simply walk in and be able to sell their crap game and make tons of money because it had the luster of being on Steam. So yeah, GOG aren't making the best decisions every single time (I have issues with some of their curation as well) but it's a far cry from what their biggest competitor did....
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Offline chemical_art

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Re: Steam-exclusive AGAIN?
« Reply #48 on: March 01, 2016, 10:29:27 pm »
Let's also keep in mind that Valve used to curate Steam pretty heavily not too long ago and they were absolutely terrible at it. Developers would be denied for the most base or dumbest of reasons. While others would simply walk in and be able to sell their crap game and make tons of money because it had the luster of being on Steam. So yeah, GOG aren't making the best decisions every single time (I have issues with some of their curation as well) but it's a far cry from what their biggest competitor did....

I would argue that the past is neat, but what matters is today. I would rather trust my judgement then have someone who has no idea what I want do it for me. I prefer steam's system of having third party groups curate and I get to select which groups I subscribe to, it seems like the best of both worlds. I get to see the widest selection of games and have the greatest freedom in selecting filters if I so choose. Much better for me then a more monolithic opaque process that just seems unwieldy.
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Offline KingIsaacLinksr

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Re: Steam-exclusive AGAIN?
« Reply #49 on: March 01, 2016, 10:41:10 pm »
Let's also keep in mind that Valve used to curate Steam pretty heavily not too long ago and they were absolutely terrible at it. Developers would be denied for the most base or dumbest of reasons. While others would simply walk in and be able to sell their crap game and make tons of money because it had the luster of being on Steam. So yeah, GOG aren't making the best decisions every single time (I have issues with some of their curation as well) but it's a far cry from what their biggest competitor did....

I would argue that the past is neat, but what matters is today. I would rather trust my judgement then have someone who has no idea what I want do it for me. I prefer steam's system of having third party groups curate and I get to select which groups I subscribe to, it seems like the best of both worlds. I get to see the widest selection of games and have the greatest freedom in selecting filters if I so choose. Much better for me then a more monolithic opaque process that just seems unwieldy.

Which would be nice if Steam had actually been updating their curator system since its inception. It hasn't gotten one.

Idk, I'm kind of mixed on both systems right now.
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Offline x4000

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Re: Steam-exclusive AGAIN?
« Reply #50 on: March 02, 2016, 12:37:31 am »
I think that the curator system would be just amazing if it worked fully properly.  I talked about this at length in a recent interview -- not the supershow one, but... I can't recall if this other one went live yet or not, actually.
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Offline Misery

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Re: Steam-exclusive AGAIN?
« Reply #51 on: March 02, 2016, 01:11:37 am »
Let's also keep in mind that Valve used to curate Steam pretty heavily not too long ago and they were absolutely terrible at it. Developers would be denied for the most base or dumbest of reasons. While others would simply walk in and be able to sell their crap game and make tons of money because it had the luster of being on Steam. So yeah, GOG aren't making the best decisions every single time (I have issues with some of their curation as well) but it's a far cry from what their biggest competitor did....

I would argue that the past is neat, but what matters is today. I would rather trust my judgement then have someone who has no idea what I want do it for me. I prefer steam's system of having third party groups curate and I get to select which groups I subscribe to, it seems like the best of both worlds. I get to see the widest selection of games and have the greatest freedom in selecting filters if I so choose. Much better for me then a more monolithic opaque process that just seems unwieldy.

Yeah, I agree with this completely.

I mean, one way or another, with curation, you absolutely are going to get games which you personally would really love... but which get shoved off by the curators, as one way or another, their opinions are involved, and opinions are tricky things.

I really, really prefer to be able to just see EVERYTHING, and do the research myself.  And really, if someone's buying games WITHOUT researching them a bit, and they get a bad one... it's their own fault.  They shoulda looked it up more.  And really, while Steam reviews arent totally perfect, I find that if I read a whole bunch of them, particularly those with good detail, I pretty much always get a very good idea of what I'm getting.  I cant remember the last time I made a purchase after doing that and being disappointed.  But with curation I mighta missed out on plenty.

I mean, heck, GoG turns down THIS game, and it turned out fantastic.   Granted, I could be biased, being on the dev team for it.  But.... reviews so far and basically all reactions I've seen from people say that it turned out pretty good.  To be fair GoG got an early view of the game... too early... but they should have been thinking of that fact when making decisions.  I mean, heck, that was back when the player was still a ship instead of a mech (geez that seems like a million years ago now).  And it's an Arcen game.  It's an Arcen tradition that a game starts out as one thing, and a month later, is almost a different genre  :P

Offline ptarth

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Re: Steam-exclusive AGAIN?
« Reply #52 on: March 02, 2016, 01:57:13 am »
To be fair, GoG has relatively limited resources to work with. It has around 10% of the market share of digital sales compared to Steam's 60%.

Let's say there is one guy, Craig, who does the curration. Ptarth says, 'Hey Craig, check this new thing out." Craig says, "Okay, I'll put it into my queue." Then 3 weeks later Craig is able to get through his queue and takes a look at Ptarth's entry(3 weeks? Yep, seems that way: https://www.reddit.com/r/gamedev/comments/46o3fj/a_little_story_about_gogcom_and_my_experience). At that point he thinks it doesn't fit with the image they are trying to project and emails Ptarth telling him, "I don't think it works for us." Then Ptarth says, "But wait, check out this new version..." Then Craig has to decide if he is going to look at it now, put it on his queue, or never look at it again. It sounds simple with just 1 game, but if your current workload let's you make a decision every 3 weeks, then if you have to give a second opinion to everyone, you are now needing an extra 52 weeks per year to handle that load.

But wait, it gets worse. Let's say that the game is rejected a second time, and Ptarth wants to  a third review, you now have tripled your workload. And worse yet, you've now trained Ptarth that it's okay to make multiple submissions, since he is now following a "Well, it will eventually it get through, I just have to keep submitting" strategy. In order to keep things reasonable, you do need an absolute criterion. Sometimes you miss out, but you have to consider the cost of each additional operation relative to the potential incomes it gives.

The second problem is flavor. GoG has a idea about the kind of products it wants to sell, let's say waffles. Who are we to demand that they sell pancakes instead? Furthermore, if they don't want to sell pancakes and we then threaten to bad mouth them all over the internet, that's not very fair. If they want to sell waffles, then celebrate their desire to sell waffles, even if what we want are pancakes.
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Offline x4000

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Re: Steam-exclusive AGAIN?
« Reply #53 on: March 02, 2016, 01:59:18 am »
I think that's a really good way to look at it, yes.  Also that's why I've not asked for them to take another look just yet.
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Offline Misery

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Re: Steam-exclusive AGAIN?
« Reply #54 on: March 02, 2016, 03:51:14 am »
Who are we to demand that they sell pancakes instead?

The consumers, really.

If a store of some sort doesnt vary their selection enough, yet another similar one DOES, then in all honesty, they deserve to lose the customers.  Consumers will tend to gravitate not just to where they can get the best products, but to where they can get the best CONVENIENCE.  People underestimate just how big of an effect that one has.  It's one of the biggest reasons why Steam is so effective.  If people use Steam, they can get everything they want all in one place.  If they use GoG, they can get a fraction of what they want in one place.  How big of a fraction that is depends on the individual, of course.  But it's no wonder that people gravitate towards the place where they can actually get things easily. 

Harsh, maybe, but that's how it works.  In so many cases, you either bend to the consumers in an overall sense... as in, not just the ones you already have... or you're sunk.

I, personally, want the damn pancakes.  If they're not going to give me the damn pancakes, I'll go to somewhere else that WILL, particularly if that other place ALSO has the waffles.  It's how I deal with any store of any sort, really, and I know I'm sure as heck not the only one that does that.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2016, 03:53:04 am by Misery »

Offline mrhanman

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Re: Steam-exclusive AGAIN?
« Reply #55 on: March 02, 2016, 03:57:56 am »
The pancake analogy is really falling flat with me.bah-dum-tis

Offline Draco18s

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Re: Steam-exclusive AGAIN?
« Reply #56 on: March 02, 2016, 04:16:06 am »
I think that the curator system would be just amazing if it worked fully properly.  I talked about this at length in a recent interview -- not the supershow one, but... I can't recall if this other one went live yet or not, actually.

Something something, curator system, something something.

I need a freaking curator for the curators.  There are almost as many curators as there are games.

Offline x4000

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Re: Steam-exclusive AGAIN?
« Reply #57 on: March 02, 2016, 01:39:12 pm »
That was one thing I talked about, too.
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Offline Draco18s

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Re: Steam-exclusive AGAIN?
« Reply #58 on: March 02, 2016, 04:24:34 pm »
Heh, not surprised.

Offline KingIsaacLinksr

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Re: Steam-exclusive AGAIN?
« Reply #59 on: March 02, 2016, 04:34:29 pm »
Yeah, there's a lot of things that could be done with the current curator system.
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