Author Topic: Steam-exclusive AGAIN?  (Read 10339 times)

Offline Wacky Willy

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Steam-exclusive AGAIN?
« on: February 07, 2016, 05:40:06 PM »
I know this is a repeat from the Bionic Dues thread, but I only buy games DRM-free after getting burned in the past.  Once Bionic Dues came out on GOG, I snatched it right up, but not before.

Why didn't you include a DRM-free option on Humble?  Why didn't you release on GOG?

And screw buying "DRM-free" games off steam then extracting the files to burn onto disk.  Half the supposedly DRM-free games I bought that way were programmed to save to the steam cloud so I had no save data, and a lot of the other ones would crash consistently when choosing certain game modes.

I realize weirdos like me are a niche market, but you make some pretty niche games.

Offline Aklyon

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Re: Steam-exclusive AGAIN?
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2016, 05:53:04 PM »
They didn't release on GOG because it got rejected, I believe was said in another thread.

Offline Misery

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Re: Steam-exclusive AGAIN?
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2016, 06:09:26 PM »
They didn't release on GOG because it got rejected, I believe was said in another thread.

Yeah, the version that GOG saw was VERY early; I personally think they should have waited to show them the game until far later (particularly considering how well it ended up coming out!).  Was pretty much a different game at that point and missing much of the content.  So that was regrettable. 

Also I dont think any of Arcen's games use the DRM stuff on Steam whatsoever.  I often run them without Steam running (when I'm using my laptop mostly), no special methods necessary or anything.  Heck, Valley Without Wind 2, I *have* the Steam version but for whatever reason I think I've *always* run it entirely without Steam.

If I recall correctly, Chris's explanation of the whole DRM thing is that Steam doesnt FORCE the DRM onto anyone; individual developers make the choice to use it or not.  If you have specific questions about it in regards to any game... ask the developers.  In other words, if you're avoiding the game because of DRM, you're avoiding the game because of something that doesnt exist on it.  But you can ask Chris or Keith for more details.

I personally though have always just ignored DRM for all other games.  I've never seen why people get so annoyed by it on Steam considering how unintrusive Steam is (I dont think I've *ever* had a problem getting any Steam game running regardless of current circumstances or any lack of a connection, either; the games and Steam itself just dont seem to give a crap).  But that's just me and that doesnt really have anything to do with this game.

Offline Cinth

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Re: Steam-exclusive AGAIN?
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2016, 07:00:30 PM »
You can copy ANY Arcen title out of the steam directory and put it on a thumb drive and it will work just fine.  Steam is just the delivery platform here.
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Opened your save. My computer wept. Switched to the ST planet and ship icons filled my screen, so I zoomed out. Game told me that it _was_ totally zoomed out. You could seriously walk from one end of the inner grav well to the other without getting your feet cold.

Offline Matruchus

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Re: Steam-exclusive AGAIN?
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2016, 08:30:51 PM »
I think the problem is in Steam as the delivery method since Steam is widely accepted (in drm-free socitey) as drm since it forces a client on you as a user + most games are bound to the client and are not playable without it. So anybody who is serious about drm-free will shun this game until gets to Humblestore, gog.com or Arcen games store as a separate drm-free build. And yes Starward Rogue does have automatic steam cloud syn turned on which should be of interest to the op. The biggest issue at the moment is that the game while it can be used without Steam does not yet include a built in updater (at least not in the game UI) so its not really drm-free yet (depends on Steam for updates).

Still waiting to see if the Humblestore is going to be updated with a drm-free build anytime soon (was supposed to happen a week ago) and I know quite a few people that are holding back cause of that. Personally I'm waiting for a gog.com release (whenever that will be). Still bought and gifted the Humble version away for support.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2016, 08:35:30 PM by Matruchus »

Offline Cinth

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Re: Steam-exclusive AGAIN?
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2016, 08:53:39 PM »
The steam cloud functionality is a rather moot point.  You can disable the cloud and it has absolutely no impact on the game (all saves are local).  Also there is an updater in the files (though I haven't tried using it).  So the game should function to expectation outside of the Steam environment.
Quote from: keith.lamothe
Opened your save. My computer wept. Switched to the ST planet and ship icons filled my screen, so I zoomed out. Game told me that it _was_ totally zoomed out. You could seriously walk from one end of the inner grav well to the other without getting your feet cold.

Offline Pepisolo

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Re: Steam-exclusive AGAIN?
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2016, 10:04:19 PM »

Quote
They didn't release on GOG because it got rejected, I believe was said in another thread.

Yeah, it's unfortunate that the game was rejected, but as Misery says the first build that GOG received was very very different from the game as it currently is today, so it's kind of understandable. I'm not sure if there have been any new applications since then, though. Starward Rogue is on a GOG wishlist thingy, so if you want it to be released then you can show your support there.

http://www.gog.com/wishlist/games/starward_rogue

Offline allison

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Re: Steam-exclusive AGAIN?
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2016, 02:04:55 AM »
Will piggyback on this topic - loyal customer here still waiting on the Arcen store release  :'( :'(

Offline ERISS

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Re: Steam-exclusive AGAIN?
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2016, 02:32:52 AM »
how unintrusive Steam is (I dont think I've *ever* had a problem getting any Steam game running regardless of current circumstances or any lack of a connection, either)
. Arcen and GOG stores are even less intrusive... they don't compel to install a 3rd party program (such is Steam).
. The "Steam offline" feature is not so offline: It let you about 2 weeks of offline playing, then, if I well understood, your game is blocked (?, at least it had made angry the moderator of the forum of a french pc magazine).
« Last Edit: February 08, 2016, 02:37:44 AM by ERISS »

Offline Misery

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Re: Steam-exclusive AGAIN?
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2016, 03:10:20 AM »
how unintrusive Steam is (I dont think I've *ever* had a problem getting any Steam game running regardless of current circumstances or any lack of a connection, either)
. Arcen and GOG stores are even less intrusive... they don't compel to install a 3rd party program (such is Steam).
. The "Steam offline" feature is not so offline: It let you about 2 weeks of offline playing, then, if I well understood, your game is blocked (?, at least it had made angry the moderator of the forum of a french pc magazine).

That last bit I dont believe for a second.

Been offline for months (not weeks) on my laptop with multiple games (that is to say, most of the ones I own are installed on there too, with Isaac, NT, and Arcen's stuff getting the most repeated plays).  No problems.  The thing is basically only used when I'm travelling, and that means hotels, and that means broken wi-fi that I dont want to bother with, so only the iPad ever goes online (or I should say, only ATTEMPTS to go online) when travelling.  The laptop doesnt, because it's waaaaaaaaaayyyyyyy too irritating to set that thing up even for a GOOD connection, let alone a potentially bad one; I installed everything on there once and then havent gone online with it in a long while (does mean I need to update NT though, but... feh, screw it).  But all the games I constantly play on it, all of which are from Steam, work just fine.  Valve isnt dumb.  They know full well that sometimes, their customers are in places where it's just bloody impossible to get a real connection of any sort going.

Really, people blow this one WAY out of proportion.  Way, way, way out.   I've been using Steam for years; it's the most harmless thing on this machine.  It's less harmful than the bloody OS (and I'm absolutely dead serious when I say that, that's not just me being sarcastic), and one of the only pieces of software I have that has never crashed in some way.

And here's another way to look at it:  Again, that DRM crap isnt even chosen by Valve, they only offer it.  The devs choose to use it if they do.  Or the publisher, whatever.   Alot of those that DO use it?  If it werent there... they'd just come up with their own, dramatically more obnoxious, way of doing it in many cases.   Think UPlay, for example.... just as a starter.  Or they'd try to get even more "creative".  Like those old "code wheels" from back in the day, except in digital form.  I can only imagine how obnoxious some of them could get.  Though it's hard to beat UPlay or Origin really.

I've honestly never found GOG or any of the others easier to use than Steam; usually the direct opposite.  More annoying, less convenient, less features, AND the selection is pretty bad in those cases compared to what I'm used to.  If there's a reason why I'd want more annoying / less convenience / bad selection, I've yet to find it.

Well, that's my thoughts on it anyway.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2016, 03:12:06 AM by Misery »

Offline TheVampire100

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Re: Steam-exclusive AGAIN?
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2016, 03:18:39 AM »
To be honest, I find downloading and playing stuff via Steam easier compared to download "drm-free" stuff, like from GOG.
I have over 300 games in my Steam library and almost 200 more from friends. I'm a collector. Sorting all this on the computer without a clear client or worse, having all this as physical copy, would make finding a single game really uncomfortable. I want also to note that the download process with a browser is rather painful while Steamdownload runs smooth.
It's not only about findign the games. Also managing the updates of all these games manually would eat my time, Steam does this automatically, even when I'm currently playing a game.
For people that play only 10 games in their live I can understand why they want to go to GOG but for people who have hundreds of games it is just easier to use steam. I see it more as a tool and not as something I'm chained to. I don't have to use Steam if I want. But I want.

Offline allison

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Re: Steam-exclusive AGAIN?
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2016, 03:39:48 AM »
Regardless of anyone else's thoughts on Steam, I would prefer not to have it on my computer.

Is there something in the current build of the game that makes it only functional with Steam?

If Arcen will no longer be releasing games on their own store for business reasons or otherwise, I'll understand, but for now I am waiting.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2016, 03:51:52 AM by allison »

Offline ptarth

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Re: Steam-exclusive AGAIN?
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2016, 04:18:04 AM »
Relevant point
Once you have Starward Rogue downloaded and installed once, it does not require Steam further. You can transfer that installation directory where-ever and however you like. The game patcher may or may not work completely yet, although it should be functional soon. The title should be on the Arcen website, DRM-free soon. It should also be on Humble Bundle, soonish. As for GOG, no one knows due to some miscommunication.

  • Steam is a system that is DRM because you have to use Steam to download and install any software you have the rights to on Steam.
  • Some Steam managed software doesn't have further DRM and once downloaded you can do what you want with it. Arcen titles have this level of functionality.
  • GOG does not have DRM. You can login to your account, grab the executable, and you are set. You do not need their client (although they have one, which is less developed that Steam.
  • Many like Steam because it offers features they find convenient.
  • Many dislike Steam because of a strong DRM-stance.
  • Many dislike Steam because it adds another level of obstruction between their software and their control.
  • Many dislike Steam because if you choose not to use Steam, you have lost access to the majority of your software managed by Steam.
  • Many dislike Steam because it could be terminated in the future.
    • Stardock's Impulse platform is an example of a system like Steam being discontinued. Impulse did transform into the GameStop App, but has since been canned by Gamestop. It somewhat works now, but support is poor. When I had issues they were very happy to give me a list of keys to items I had on my account. Keys which are useless, because nothing really accepts them.
    • Desura is another example.
    • Because of the size of Valve it is unlikely to occur soon. Gabe has promised things in regard to this, but this is a situation that has no guarantee beyond his word. If Steam goes under, they will not have any legal responsibilities beyond that.
    • If you think that it will never, ever happen, consider this: IBM no longer makes PCs. In its day the PC was an IBM machine. Now they have left the market entirely. They are still in business but have shifted away from the PC to business level operations and support.
  • Many dislike Steam because the offline functionality was very poor. However, it has been rectified[/u] and I have not experienced an issue in months.
  • I find both Steam and Gog to be functional. I have 721 titles on Steam, 134 titles on GoG, some on Amazon, some on Impulse/GameStop App, some on Humble Bundle, and in other random places..
  • Dismissing either side of the argument because you don't understand how someone else could have a different belief is insulting. It may be grounded in your opinion, but people have very different understandings. This thread is a great demonstration with the large amount of misinformation in it.
  • I prefer GOG and nonDRM titles. It supports my belief about a better world view. However I'm also realistic/sell-out enough to also use Steam.

Now I'm going back to making sure my <loop> tags are <loop/> tags.
Note: This post contains content that is meant to be whimsical. Any belittlement or trivialization of complex issues is only intended to lighten the mood and does not reflect upon the merit of those positions.

Offline Misery

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Re: Steam-exclusive AGAIN?
« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2016, 12:11:59 PM »
To be honest, I find downloading and playing stuff via Steam easier compared to download "drm-free" stuff, like from GOG.
I have over 300 games in my Steam library and almost 200 more from friends. I'm a collector. Sorting all this on the computer without a clear client or worse, having all this as physical copy, would make finding a single game really uncomfortable. I want also to note that the download process with a browser is rather painful while Steamdownload runs smooth.
It's not only about findign the games. Also managing the updates of all these games manually would eat my time, Steam does this automatically, even when I'm currently playing a game.
For people that play only 10 games in their live I can understand why they want to go to GOG but for people who have hundreds of games it is just easier to use steam. I see it more as a tool and not as something I'm chained to. I don't have to use Steam if I want. But I want.

Yeah, same here.   I dont use Steam because I have to:  I use Steam because  "Why the bloody hell wouldnt I?"   I've used GOG before.  Not helpful, *just* annoying.  Not like, Origin or UPlay annoying, but still... it didn't help. It made me think "And this is useful.... how, exactly?" I dont even remember why I bought from them a few times (likely it was to get certain friends of mine to shut up about it, which is the reason why every now and then I'll do things I otherwise wouldnt) but suffice it to say, I bought the Steam versions of those few games not that long after because it was getting on my nerves.  Which is pretty much about the biggest insult a vendor could get from me.

Thusly, I've never seen the point, and not one person, not ONE, has ever been able to give me a good reason as to why not to use Steam, really.   People act like it's a damn virus (?) without even trying it (every single person I've met that does this though, will then happily go and download OTHER things of the sort that make me facedesk over and over). I often say that UPlay is terrible, but I've been in a position to A: use it alot, and B: carefully examine and mess with it, this being because it's technically on this machine for quite some time.  Even UPlay though is technically harmless and is no different from any other program in that it'll only run if I tell it to.

If these companies were putting out programs that could damage your machine or whatever... it'd not go so well for them, to put it mildly. But anyone saying it does is, frankly, just saying it, nothing more (same if they said it of Origin or whatever).  I dont use GOG because I HAVE used them in the past, and found it to be really obnoxious/useless.   I didn't decide not to use it just because "I sorta hear from people that it's bad somehow!" or because of some bizarro belief that it'd damage something or slow down the PC or some nonsense.

It hasnt happened yet but if there's a particular game that could only be gotten from GOG, I'd probably just go and do it.  Annoying, but... whatever.  Was the same with UPlay really.  Definitely dont like it, but... eh.  I only have to put up with it for Anno, so... feh, whatever.

Either way though, if you're waiting for this particular game to end up elsewhere.... be prepared to wait for quite some time, or indefinitely.  I have the distinct feeling it's not happening anytime soon.   Not from anything said by Chris or anything like that, no, that's just me considering all current evidence/trends in the way things have been going here.  But you can complain at GOG themselves about it, really; THEY decided not to have it on there, after all.   I know *why* they do this, but I think it's a really damn derpy system, to be honest.  But that's just me.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2016, 12:14:34 PM by Misery »

Offline Mánagarmr

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Re: Steam-exclusive AGAIN?
« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2016, 02:02:01 PM »
That said, as far as GoG goes GoG Galaxy is pretty much Steam but for those old and DRM-free games. Now, me and GoG have very different ideas on DOSBox settings, so generally I download the games separately anyway and put them in my Dosbox folder so I can run them with my settings. But for those who don't care much and just want to run the games, GoG Galaxy is great! Also keeps your games up to date automatically.
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