Author Topic: Starward Rogue Unlock Overhaul Brainstorming  (Read 1247 times)

Offline Draco18s

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Re: Starward Rogue Unlock Overhaul Brainstorming
« Reply #15 on: May 28, 2018, 11:59:30 AM »
I don't think there's a single circuit that players will miss not having in the game, they're really just padding the game out with bad content at the moment.

Eh, I would convert a handful (three?) to standard consumable items.
"Gain 20 credits" is a nice boon early-game. Especially as I'm not opening robot shops on the first floor because I don't have the requisite minimum 40 credits to BUY A FRIEND (so why waste a keycard?).

(It used to be minimum 30, but somehow the first floor drones got more expensive with our latest additions, I now regularly see 40, 50, and 70 credit drones on the first floor)

Offline Logorouge

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Re: Starward Rogue Unlock Overhaul Brainstorming
« Reply #16 on: May 28, 2018, 01:22:25 PM »
(It used to be minimum 30, but somehow the first floor drones got more expensive with our latest additions, I now regularly see 40, 50, and 70 credit drones on the first floor)
The only times I buy those on the 1st floor is when I go for the Blood Money sacrifice. An early crystal drone is pretty hilarious.

As for the circuits, I could give them the same treatment as the probations but we could also convert them into something else. For the positive ones, I'm thinking of powerup-like uncommon drops from enemies you could get during fights. Getting a temporary frenzy/firerate boost like that for example would be much more exciting I think.

Offline Draco18s

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Re: Starward Rogue Unlock Overhaul Brainstorming
« Reply #17 on: May 28, 2018, 02:29:26 PM »
(It used to be minimum 30, but somehow the first floor drones got more expensive with our latest additions, I now regularly see 40, 50, and 70 credit drones on the first floor)
The only times I buy those on the 1st floor is when I go for the Blood Money sacrifice. An early crystal drone is pretty hilarious.

My problem is, I tend not to see another robot shop again until floor 4. :\
It's like "stop teasing me, game!"

As for the circuits, I could give them the same treatment as the probations but we could also convert them into something else. For the positive ones, I'm thinking of powerup-like uncommon drops from enemies you could get during fights. Getting a temporary frenzy/firerate boost like that for example would be much more exciting I think.

Oh that could be neat.

Offline Misery

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Re: Starward Rogue Unlock Overhaul Brainstorming
« Reply #18 on: May 29, 2018, 12:39:03 AM »
Aye, the circuits can be safely removed or transferred into some other mechanic.  They really are just a broken remnant at the moment so they aren't accomplishing anything in their current state.

Offline Valtiel

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Re: Starward Rogue Unlock Overhaul Brainstorming
« Reply #19 on: October 01, 2018, 06:51:11 AM »
I have a few ideas for overhauling Mysterious Circuits.

The easiest fix: Drop the "unidentified" aspect. Throw out all the detrimental circuits, and fold the helpful ones into existing consumables and/or passives.

The easy fix: All Circuits are unidentified when you start a new save file, but the first time you use them, that circuit will become identified for every future run on that file. This turns them into a form of progression between runs. Since all runs on a save file happen in the same "continuity", just with different heads in the mech, this makes sense - the Hydral can keep a recording of what happens every time it tests out a new circuit.

Complete overhaul idea #1 - double-edged sword:
  • Mysterious Circuits are all passive, not consumable.
  • Mysterious Circuits always have a harmful effect that triggers when you get hit.
  • Collecting a SECOND Mysterious Circuit adds a positive effect, and a very strong one at that.
  • Collecting a third circuit multiplies the positive effect.
  • At first, mysterious Circuits only appear in unlocked chests, because it sucks to spend a key to access something that initially hurts more than it helps. Collecting your first circuit allows them to start spawning in locked chests and in shops.
In short, having one is bad. Having two is a toss-up. Having three or more is good, and it only gets better the more you collect. The idea is that the circuits aren't really compatible with your mech, but they are very compatible with each other, so you need several of them to unlock their potential. If you pick one up, you're kind of committing to hunting for more.

(Example harmful effects: Chance to take +1 damage from hits, chance for hits to bypass shields, damage temporarily reduces movement speed, damage temporarily reduces rate of fire, damage causes loss of energy, damage has a chance to consume a missile, enemy shots knock your mech back, increased damage from environmental hazards, reduced mercy invulnerability)

The positive effect - since you need two circuits to even see it - probably shouldn't be random. I'm thinking something like greatly boosted critical hits, since that's the closest I can think of to the sort of advantage that improved circuitry might give you (identifying enemy weak points), and you can make it highly visible.

Complete overhaul idea #2 - AI circuitry

Mysterious circuits only ever have a beneficial effect, but they also house a malignant AI that will try to take over your mech. Extra "glitch" enemies will start appearing in rooms, and get steadily nastier the more circuits you have. If you have five circuits, then at the end of the run you get to fight an extra "glitch" boss as the AI makes one last attempt to take over. This is sort of the reverse of overhaul #1 above, in that they start off mostly beneficial and get more troublesome the more you have.

Circuit effects should aim to be *visible* above all else - +10% damage is good, but it's a bit hard to tell it's happening outside of boss fights. Circuit effects should be passive, because nobody wants a one-off effect that makes the entire rest of the run harder.

While this is cool and thematic, it's also the most time-consuming to implement, especially the "extra boss" thing.

Offline Valtiel

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Re: Starward Rogue Unlock Overhaul Brainstorming
« Reply #20 on: October 01, 2018, 09:48:55 AM »
For each of the "kill final boss with X mech" achievements, I'd like to see a pickup that gives you a mini version of that mech's special power.

AchievementItem nameDescription
Kill Final Boss With White Gloss MechWhite Gloss PaintAll your above-average stats are reduced by one. All your below-average stats are increased by one. Then, gain two health.
Kill Final Boss With Flame Tank MechFlaming Tank of MissilesGain double missile capacity and an immediate full refill of missiles, but halve energy capacity.
Kill Final Boss With Indigo Dipole MechMagnetic MonopolesYour secondary weapon repels enemy shots.
Kill Final Boss With Green Envy MechEnvious Imp-1 health, -1 missile capacity, enemies have a chance to drop credits or keycards.
Kill Final Boss With Deep Blue MechDeep ContemplationReduced rate of fire on primary weapon but increased energy capacity and more powerful drones.
Kill Final Boss With Redshift MechRetired ShiftworkerTime slows down when you're not moving.
Kill Final Boss With Humble MechHumble BragGain a damage boost every time you buy something from a shop.
Kill Final Boss With Alpha MechAlf's Budget AIRandomized perks and a small boost to XP rate.
Kill Final Boss With Penumbra MechPenultimate WeaponGreatly increased damage on primary weapon, greatly reduced health.
An Entourage Befitting a HydralNeinzul MicrohiveFiring a missile spawns a short-lived Neinzul Youngling that acts as a drone.
UntouchableMC HammerGain a damage boost that goes away when you take damage but is refreshed when you enter a new room.
NoncommittalPolyarmouryPermanently replace your consumables slot with a second attachment slot. Press the "use consumable" button to switch them around so you can choose which to replace when you pick up a new attachment.
Conspicuous NonconsumptionVow of PovertyYou lose all your credits and no more will spawn for the rest of the run, but shops will always have one item they will give you for free.
SafariHunted to ExtinctionConsumable. Next time you kill an enemy, no further enemies of that type will spawn in this run.
Do you actually have any cheese?Cheesed OffAngry shopkeepers will spawn as enemies, and drop large piles of credits when they die.
Perfect Clear: All Mini BossesHandicap MatchMiniboss rooms contain two minibosses.
Unlock All ItemsParadox...wait, an item you can only unlock by unlocking all items? What is this, some kind of j-*boom*

For each of the "boss perfect clear", I'd ideally like a weapon reminiscent of that boss's attacks. I'm not sure what to do with the "Kill Super-Final Boss with X Mech" achievements.

"Find All Items" is a terribly awkward achievement to get, so I'd honestly prefer it didn't unlock anything.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2018, 10:41:31 AM by Valtiel »

Offline Draco18s

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Re: Starward Rogue Unlock Overhaul Brainstorming
« Reply #21 on: October 01, 2018, 04:29:27 PM »
For each of the "boss perfect clear", I'd ideally like a weapon reminiscent of that boss's attacks. I'm not sure what to do with the "Kill Super-Final Boss with X Mech" achievements.

You will like what was done.

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"Find All Items" is a terribly awkward achievement to get, so I'd honestly prefer it didn't unlock anything.

There's a neat unlock for it, but that possibility is still on the table (we're even having problems verifying that it can be done).

Offline Valtiel

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Re: Starward Rogue Unlock Overhaul Brainstorming
« Reply #22 on: October 02, 2018, 05:08:41 AM »
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"Find All Items" is a terribly awkward achievement to get, so I'd honestly prefer it didn't unlock anything.

There's a neat unlock for it, but that possibility is still on the table (we're even having problems verifying that it can be done).

Can you change that achievement so it's "encounter all items" rather than "pick up all items"? There's a bunch of items I might never pick up because I'll read the tooltip and then decide I don't want them.

Offline Draco18s

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Re: Starward Rogue Unlock Overhaul Brainstorming
« Reply #23 on: October 02, 2018, 04:32:00 PM »
Can you change that achievement so it's "encounter all items" rather than "pick up all items"? There's a bunch of items I might never pick up because I'll read the tooltip and then decide I don't want them.

That's not the problem.
And I don't think I can do that, either.

Offline Pepisolo

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Re: Starward Rogue Unlock Overhaul Brainstorming
« Reply #24 on: October 02, 2018, 09:41:18 PM »
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The easiest fix: Drop the "unidentified" aspect. Throw out all the detrimental circuits, and fold the helpful ones into existing consumables and/or passives.

That's exactly what we have done for the upcoming patch, actually! :)

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The easy fix: All Circuits are unidentified when you start a new save file, but the first time you use them, that circuit will become identified for every future run on that file. This turns them into a form of progression between runs. Since all runs on a save file happen in the same "continuity", just with different heads in the mech, this makes sense - the Hydral can keep a recording of what happens every time it tests out a new circuit.

Interesting idea. That may work if we bring the circuits back in the future. That would fix the issue of the player not encountering enough circuits in a run to be meaningful, yeah.

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In short, having one is bad. Having two is a toss-up. Having three or more is good, and it only gets better the more you collect. The idea is that the circuits aren't really compatible with your mech, but they are very compatible with each other, so you need several of them to unlock their potential. If you pick one up, you're kind of committing to hunting for more.

Definitely an interesting new mechanic.

Quote
Mysterious circuits only ever have a beneficial effect, but they also house a malignant AI that will try to take over your mech. Extra "glitch" enemies will start appearing in rooms, and get steadily nastier the more circuits you have. If you have five circuits, then at the end of the run you get to fight an extra "glitch" boss as the AI makes one last attempt to take over. This is sort of the reverse of overhaul #1 above, in that they start off mostly beneficial and get more troublesome the more you have.

Another cool mechanic. It's also reminiscent of the glitchy bots from Bionic Dues. Implementation might be a problem with our current coding resources, though.

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For each of the "kill final boss with X mech" achievements, I'd like to see a pickup that gives you a mini version of that mech's special power.

Actually the unlock overhaul is already 99.9% complete. What we've gone with are items that are mostly themed to the mechs in question. The Flame Tank has a Fire Sword as an unlock, for example. Warhog has an assault shotgun and pickup that acts as an emergency cache of missiles. The Indigo Dipole has a gravity based shotgun etc.

It seems like you have a few good ideas for items in your list, although unfortunately none will probably make it into the overhaul, just because the overhaul is already 99.9% complete. We can certainly keep your ideas in mind, though. Personally I like Envious Imp, Retired Shiftworker, and Vow of Poverty. Those might also be currently feasible in the engine...maybe!

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For each of the "boss perfect clear", I'd ideally like a weapon reminiscent of that boss's attacks. I'm not sure what to do with the "Kill Super-Final Boss with X Mech" achievements.

As Draco says, you should be pretty happy with what we'v come up with for the boss perfect clear rewards then. :) As for the Kill Super-Final Boss with X Mech achievements, we have more powerful mech themed items.

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"Find All Items" is a terribly awkward achievement to get, so I'd honestly prefer it didn't unlock anything.

Yeah, we were half thinking about doing that before I read your recommendation, now it seems very likely that's what we're going to do. Just leave it without a reward since it's so difficult to get.

Thanks for your feedback. Sorry that it's a bit late for us to implement any of your suggestions. Currently the build is pretty much in lockdown in terms of new items and we're looking to push it soonish. Cheers!

Offline Valtiel

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Re: Starward Rogue Unlock Overhaul Brainstorming
« Reply #25 on: October 05, 2018, 09:47:47 AM »
Thanks for your feedback. Sorry that it's a bit late for us to implement any of your suggestions. Currently the build is pretty much in lockdown in terms of new items and we're looking to push it soonish. Cheers!

No worries at all, I thought it might be but I wanted to give feedback anyway, just in case. More unlocks are always good in a game like this.