Arcen Games

Games => Starward Rogue => Topic started by: WolfWhiteFire on May 26, 2017, 04:56:22 PM

Title: SPOILERS So that ending?
Post by: WolfWhiteFire on May 26, 2017, 04:56:22 PM
I recently got the game when it was on sale, tried all the difficulties working down one at a time until I could survive, in other words very easy mode, with the plan to work up from there as I gain experience, and I reached the final boss (huge difficulty spike there btw), managed to beat it, then... nothing? Just VICTORY! on screen and then the credits that didn't even have any special music or anything. I was at least expecting a few words from Rodney, possibly a surprise fight against him, at least seeing or hearing him, but he apparently had nothing to say about me saving him from that prison. Is it better on harder difficulties perhaps? Because otherwise it is kind of disappointing, the AI War Classic ending didn't have much either, but TLF had a few words from the ship's AI and an interesting song that really made me question my methods once I actually listened to the lyrics, not sure if the other games have anything. So is that really all there is to the ending or is there some secret or something I am missing? EDIT: Also I just noticed that the achievement I got said "final" boss, so does that mean that under certain circumstances you do fight Rodney or some other boss afterwards?
Title: Re: SPOILERS So that ending?
Post by: Logorouge on May 26, 2017, 05:28:47 PM
As far as I know, the ending is currently the abrupt victory screen. No fanfare or anything. You get a few words from Rodney in the menu just before you start another run though.
I did find some victory pictures in the files where you see the final boss defeated, but those are unused at the moment. I know the guys had more plans for story-related content they wanted to add to the game, but so far I think that's it.

One thing though: When you say you reached the final boss, do you mean the final boss or the "final" boss?
Title: Re: SPOILERS So that ending?
Post by: WolfWhiteFire on May 26, 2017, 05:36:49 PM
The Warden, when I made my edit I asked if there was another boss afterwards because the achievement said "final" which suggests it isn't really the final boss.
Title: Re: SPOILERS So that ending?
Post by: WolfWhiteFire on May 26, 2017, 05:51:33 PM
So I know rogue-likes often have serious consequences for killing a shopkeeper, I didn't even know they existed despite going through the game on very easy but anyway I bumped into a shopkeeper which annoyed him and made me have to kill him, how much will that make me suffer later on?
Title: Re: SPOILERS So that ending?
Post by: Logorouge on May 26, 2017, 06:00:22 PM
The Warden, when I made my edit I asked if there was another boss afterwards because the achievement said "final" which suggests it isn't really the final boss.
Good news: You still have more stuff to look forward to. Once you kill the 3 wardens, you'll open the way to the real final boss. Just be prepared, as the later floors will get pretty brutal.

As for killing shopkeepers, that will make that type of shop (ex: weapon shop) empty for the rest of the run. All other shops will be unaffected, so it's not a big deal. If you kill him while there's still some items for sale, they will get replaced by special challenge items. Something to keep in mind if you feel like putting a twist on a run.
Title: Re: SPOILERS So that ending?
Post by: Misery on May 26, 2017, 06:41:16 PM
I'm just gonna warn you right now:  Don't expect much else in the way of story upon hitting the ending, just like in AI War.

Unfortunately, the last bit of the story was a casualty of the game's overly short initial development time, and the initial bad sales. 

Granted, this genre typically isn't exactly big on story anyway, but yeah.  It just abruptly hits that victory screen after the actual final boss.  Well, for now anyway.  Hoping to finally put in the bloody ending with the game's expansion (which we are working on), so we'll see what happens there.

So yeah, that's what happened with that.  The other missing thing is Misery Mode, the highest difficulty, because argh.  There's no way in heck I could have actually completed that in the initial development time (I have to make that one on my own, for reasons, so it's a very, very slow process), and since then there's just been too many other things taking priority.  It's coming however with the expansion.  About bloody time.

There's also another special end-boss coming, that's one thing I'll hint at.  If you've played Isaac, think The Hush or Delirium.


Anyway, if you've any other feedback or questions, please feel free to post them here.
Title: Re: SPOILERS So that ending?
Post by: TheVampire100 on May 26, 2017, 06:54:27 PM
Uhm, about the new final boss, are there special unlock conditions or is it enough if we beat the current final boss once?
Anyway, the story was something that made me always curious about the game but I was disappointed, when this was put aside for later and then got pushed back even further.
I hope there isn't only one ending for beating the super ultimate final boss. there could be 3 different endings if you beat each of the three final bosses once (similiar to what Isaac did but less confusing).
Title: Re: SPOILERS So that ending?
Post by: WolfWhiteFire on May 26, 2017, 07:49:05 PM
the 3 wardens
Do you mean 3 wardens? The 3 makes it sound like they are in the same run, but after killing one the credits started.
Title: Re: SPOILERS So that ending?
Post by: Draco18s on May 26, 2017, 08:38:18 PM
the 3 wardens
Do you mean 3 wardens? The 3 makes it sound like they are in the same run, but after killing one the credits started.

Nah, just that you have to beat the warden 3 times. Once per run.
Title: Re: SPOILERS So that ending?
Post by: WolfWhiteFire on May 26, 2017, 10:23:08 PM
That is what I was asking if you meant, though I guess I could have phrased the question more clearly.
Title: Re: SPOILERS So that ending?
Post by: Misery on May 27, 2017, 05:08:26 AM
Uhm, about the new final boss, are there special unlock conditions or is it enough if we beat the current final boss once?

Not going to be unlock conditions in the way you're thinking about it.

If you've played Isaac, it really is very similar to how the Hush, Boss Rush, Mega Satan, or Delirium work.  On any given run, with certain conditions met, you then have the OPTION of going to one of those three places.  You don't have to go to them, and can simply continue onwards towards the normal ending on the Chest or Dark Room.  But if you think your build is good enough, you can give them a go.

It's going to be like that.  And I'll warn you right now, the entire reason why it's going to like this is because this is meant to be a *very* difficult boss.  It'll still be divided up into the different difficulty modes, but compared to other stuff on a given mode, it's going to be very tough.  On Misery mode it's going to be outright ridiculous, because of course it will be... I don't have to be kind whatsoever on that mode.  Not to mention that this thing will have what I'm calling "anti-rampage" mechanics to it on all modes... I'll leave how that works as a surprise (and I'm still testing it anyway), but it means nothing in the game will let you flatten it in 5 seconds, or anything like that.  Dodge or die, here.  You'll still want a decently powerful build for it, though.  This is the only boss that will use such a thing, and the other half of the reason why it's optional.   It's likely to be a long fight.

In other words, it's meant to be the game's greatest challenge, for those that want it.  Specifically, *my* idea of this type of challenge.  But those that don't want it, can just ignore it.   No achievements for this guy, because I want this to be *completely* optional.  I don't want another Delirium driving players up the wall because getting 100% of achievements requires doing absurd things against him.  None of that crap here, thanks.  There's no reason to get all frustrated and aggravated against this guy if it's not the sort of challenge you're after.  Similarly, Misery mode will have no achievements either for that very reason.

As for what the conditions for reaching the horrid thing will be, that's undecided.  What IS decided is that unlike the Hush, the entrance to this fight will appear at the very end, after Terminus is defeated.  You can either go into it (if you've gotten it to open), or just end the run with a win.  The choice is entirely yours. I expect most players will just end it normally.

I will say that actually making the thing is not exactly the most fun process in the world.  I'd been dreading that particular task for awhile.  Though maybe a little less irritating than trying to make the patterns for the Obscura ships in TLF.  What with the turn-based combat and the giant bloated hitbox of the player's ship.  I'm glad those came out well, but good grief, they were a total pain to make.
Title: Re: SPOILERS So that ending?
Post by: WolfWhiteFire on May 27, 2017, 02:18:14 PM
This isn't really related to the subject, but I may have found a bug? I am running through the game my second time, this time with the guy with the beam drone, with a weapon I found that can shoot through walls and a really good defensive module that makes it where if I take damage all shots are repulsed away from me and enemies can be damaged by them. I ended up fighting the Labyrinth boss (not sure where the labyrinth part came from, just 4 beams blocking my way to him), and after noticing that when I take damage my repulsor gets rid of the lasers, I jumped in with him. Killed him, wondered why the lasers are still on, guess that it is because of those 4 things in the corners, then realize I only have 1 hp left. I thought I was doomed so just ran into the laser to end it but I passed through unharmed. Is it that lasers can't kill you, or can't kill you on easier difficulties, or is it a bug?
Title: Re: SPOILERS So that ending?
Post by: Misery on May 27, 2017, 10:23:35 PM
Lasers seem to do that sometimes... heck if I know why.  They're supposed to do damage every time.
Title: Re: SPOILERS So that ending?
Post by: z99-_ on May 28, 2017, 07:25:18 PM
Hoping to finally put in the bloody ending with the game's expansion (which we are working on), so we'll see what happens there.

Do you have any more info on the current plans for this? The threads that discussed it are a bit outdated (I think the last mention of a fundraising time was Chris saying he was considering postponing the kickstarter to January) and I know how quickly plans can change. I'm just curious about general stuff, like if the plan is still for it to be funded through kickstarter, and if there are any ideas about a release time (this year vs next year, fall vs winter, something like that). Or maybe the plan is to wait until after AIW2 is released, so Keith can get in to do some engine work?
Title: Re: SPOILERS So that ending?
Post by: Misery on May 29, 2017, 04:56:25 AM
I'd say the expected release is... er... a couple of months off? 2, maybe?  I wish it could go faster, but... yeah, just a few volunteers does not make for a speedy development team.  A good chunk of content has also been slow to be made because a very specific feature needs to be present first.  That, I'm hoping, will finally be ready soon.  And a couple of other things have happened that have slowed things down.  Of course, I'd rather it go slow, than be rushed and crappy.  That never helps anyone.  So it's fine by me really. 

I have no idea about the Kickstarter thing.  That's never been my concern, that's up to Chris and the others.  It'd be a mistake to involve me in that sort of planning, so I tend to just skim over that stuff when it's being discussed.

I believe Keith is already scheduled to do certain engine things to get certain features running.  Someone correct me if I'm wrong.   There's so many freaking emails flying back and forth all the time, it's very hard for me to keep up with everything.  Yahoo's stupid mail system, you know.  Feh.  As I understand it though, the stuff he'd be doing isn't crazy complicated like what needs to be done for AIW2... not something that'd take giant piles of time.  I do know that some of it is like, half done, but there's only so much coding ability among the volunteers when it comes to direct engine stuff, which is why he'd be doing the other part of it.

Again someone correct me if I'm getting any of this wrong. 
Title: Re: SPOILERS So that ending?
Post by: z99-_ on May 29, 2017, 07:19:49 AM
I'd say the expected release is... er... a couple of months off? 2, maybe?

Hmm ... interesting. if that's accurate, I would guess the kickstarter is out. I mean, a month long kickstarter, plus the time before it needed to set it up and spread the word ... the expansion would be ready for release like the week after the kickstarter ended.

Of course, I'd rather it go slow, than be rushed and crappy.  That never helps anyone.  So it's fine by me really.

Yep, that's definitely my feeling too.  Any time I hear people complaining about release dates, I just think of KotOR II and shake my head. That being said, I know Arcen has been seriously hurt by releasing stuff at times of year that are especially competitive, so while things certainly shouldn't be rushed, it still may be good to keep the video game market cycle in the back of peoples' minds when thinking about when the expansion will probably be ready for release.

I believe Keith is already scheduled to do certain engine things to get certain features running.

For the stuff that I and others have suggested where the sticking point was they would require engine work, are those on keith's to-do list (not actually making the stuff, just tinkering with the engine so someone else can)? I was thinking about starting a thread that gathered up all those suggestions in one place so someone would have a comprehensive reference of all the engine work requested so far, but if someone's already done that internally, I don't want to waste my time ;)
Title: Re: SPOILERS So that ending?
Post by: keith.lamothe on May 29, 2017, 08:20:55 AM
I've done a few rounds of engine modifications; there's one more feature that may be on my list, but someone else started it so it's not clear which of us will be finishing it.
Title: Re: SPOILERS So that ending?
Post by: WolfWhiteFire on May 29, 2017, 09:55:21 AM
Is this expansion new news? I haven't heard mention of it before this thread, albeit I haven't gotten the game until shortly before this thread, but I try to track stuff like that. Also it is interesting how often in these forums something like this happens, not bad, just interesting, a thread talks about one thing, and then conversation ends up somewhere else completely, like a thread about the ending turning into a thread about an upcoming expansion. I am considering changing the subject so people know that an expansion is being talked about here and can come here  to join in the conversation.
Title: Re: SPOILERS So that ending?
Post by: Pepisolo on May 29, 2017, 12:40:48 PM
Quote
Hmm ... interesting. if that's accurate, I would guess the kickstarter is out. I mean, a month long kickstarter, plus the time before it needed to set it up and spread the word ... the expansion would be ready for release like the week after the kickstarter ended.

Yeah, we're not going to be running a Kickstarter for this now. We don't really have anyone to run the campaign. We're looking at a regular release, although we do need to start some kind of marketing push soon. We're trying for sometime in July as the launch date, although that might get pushed back a month or two.

Quote
That being said, I know Arcen has been seriously hurt by releasing stuff at times of year that are especially competitive, so while things certainly shouldn't be rushed, it still may be good to keep the video game market cycle in the back of peoples' minds when thinking about when the expansion will probably be ready for release.

July was the advised date in terms of being a good time to release, but we may not make that. We should really be in the polishing and balancing phase now, but we've been a bit slow on certain things. The good news is that in terms of raw content, we're 90% of the way there.

Quote
For the stuff that I and others have suggested where the sticking point was they would require engine work, are those on keith's to-do list (not actually making the stuff, just tinkering with the engine so someone else can)? I was thinking about starting a thread that gathered up all those suggestions in one place so someone would have a comprehensive reference of all the engine work requested so far, but if someone's already done that internally, I don't want to waste my time

Those are not on Keith's list no. If you can start a thread or compile a mantis report with that stuff, that'd be useful, cheers.
Title: Re: SPOILERS So that ending?
Post by: Pepisolo on May 29, 2017, 12:43:31 PM
Is this expansion new news? I haven't heard mention of it before this thread, albeit I haven't gotten the game until shortly before this thread, but I try to track stuff like that. Also it is interesting how often in these forums something like this happens, not bad, just interesting, a thread talks about one thing, and then conversation ends up somewhere else completely, like a thread about the ending turning into a thread about an upcoming expansion. I am considering changing the subject so people know that an expansion is being talked about here and can come here  to join in the conversation.

There's been a bit of talk about it, but not that much. Misery did do a thread showcasing a few things here:

https://forums.arcengames.com/starward-rogue/expansion-teaser-screenshots/