So. Sacrifice Shops.

[Draco18s]

The "acquire all life-cost items on floor" challenge item should be moved deeper.  I've seen it spawn on floor 2 and 3 where I have had, at most, 16 hp.

A mere three 3-cost items will cost, in total, after the increasing costs:
3, 3, 3
2, 4, 6
=====
5+7+9

21 HP.

Except I have never seen a shop spawn with three 3-cost items, usually there's only one (and yes, I'm looking at prices before buying something!) and the other two are 5-cost.  That puts my minimum viable HP at 26.

Actually, better idea, don't spawn it unless it would be possible to have enough HP.  If there's two life-shops (which I've seen) the costs just get crazy (60 hp for all six 3-cost items).  I'm fine if it makes an optimistic guess, assuming I can find shards and a couple of hp from leveling up, but walking into a level with 9 hp and seeing that challenge...I don't even spend the time picking it up.

[NickAragua]

I screwed around with buying stuff from those my first couple of runs, then I stopped. The stuff in there just isn't good enough.

[Misery]

I screwed around with buying stuff from those my first couple of runs, then I stopped. The stuff in there just isn't good enough.

Alot of that stuff can be better than it looks.

Space Dandy in particular is a bit of an overpowered mess; completely overwhelming, that one.

The one that gives full knowledge of each floor is one that I always grab whenever possible; it not only shows future sacrifice rooms (and everything else) but it also shows the location of the "secret" rooms, which are typically harder to find, but contain things that are free instead of costing you anything.  You cant go wrong with free.

That all being said, a bunch of things found in there are going to be getting looked at, when I get around to them.  Expect buffs to them and such.

[Draco18s]

but contain things that are free instead of costing you anything.

I have not yet seen "free" stuff.  And I've found damn near every secret room (I habitually blow things up for health shards and those same containers are switches).  In fact, pretty sure every one of them has been a health-cost shop, or at least has displayed costs on its contents.

[Misery]

but contain things that are free instead of costing you anything.

I have not yet seen "free" stuff.  And I've found damn near every secret room (I habitually blow things up for health shards and those same containers are switches).  In fact, pretty sure every one of them has been a health-cost shop, or at least has displayed costs on its contents.

Yep, you havent found the second type of hidden room yet, then.  There are two types, the sacrifice rooms (health-cost ones) and what are internally just called "secret" rooms.  Items in secret rooms are free (no cost displayed, either).  However, if there are more than one item in a particular secret room, you may only choose one, the others will vanish (if the item you grabbed replaces one you are holding though, the dropped item will sit there like normal and not vanish).  There are always a few of these rooms in every playthrough.  But good luck finding them.  They have a funky round icon on them.

That's why I take the mapping device.   It ends up more than paying for itself.  Not to mention that simply knowing the layout can be really good in it's own right, particularly on higher difficulties.  Lets me bolt straight for the item room or health storage room, or whatever.

[Draco18s]

Played a run this eve (on Easy rather than Normal) and got a couple of them, yeah.  Was not thrilled with the contents but that's an unrelated matter.  Especially when it generates a gun I'm unfamiliar with and I can't equip it to see if I like it's spread/range/firerate/whatever.

On another note: I'm disappointed in the level that gave me the "finish with two drones" and no drone shop.  Thanks.
Or the level (floor 1!) that generated zero keycards and two locked doors.

[Cinth]

On another note: I'm disappointed in the level that gave me the "finish with two drones" and no drone shop.  Thanks.
Or the level (floor 1!) that generated zero keycards and two locked doors.

RNG doing what RNG does best.  As long as it isn't the norm, I think it's ok for now.  Eventually probations will get a pass.

[Misery]

Yeah, some of the probations do need some work.

On the note of those, I think the time-limit one doesnt work whatsoever.  It's bloody impossible to do on most floors.  Maybe replace it with something else?  Heck if I know what.


Also yes, it's kinda obnoxious when the secret room contains something you really just dont need.  Though, things found there hopefully will get more desirable as balance work continues.  Upcoming patch (not ready yet, I think) is going to have a bunch of changes to some things, with each of us working on different parts.  I'm doing weapons right now, I can sure say that the Riot Suppressor is a ton better.  As always patch notes are already available if anyone wants to see some of the stuff that's upcoming.

And tomorrow I'm probably going to stick a bit of boss stuff in too.  I was going to do it today, but things hurt, so that's a nope.

[Draco18s]

On the note of those, I think the time-limit one doesnt work whatsoever.  It's bloody impossible to do on most floors.  Maybe replace it with something else?  Heck if I know what.

Absolutely not.  I found that and I went "haha yeah right."  Time on it was 3 minuets.

Some other...items I've found highly suspect too, like "+4HP until you use a missile."  Sorry mate, I'm using that missile as soon as I see a health shard box.  And it doesn't reset when you travel to a new room, no.  It's never ever use missiles ever again.  And I paid money for it (admittedly it was dirt cheap and I used the missile to get a shard as soon as I could to see if it was per room or forever).

I think I'm also going to not look at loot chests until I've fully cleared the level, because +1 shield after the level, but your shields are drained now item is just too risky (and it vanishes if you leave the room, which is not noted anywhere in the UI).

[Pumpkin]

Increasing life cost: explain or remove.

Explained. Thank you!

[Misery]

On the note of those, I think the time-limit one doesnt work whatsoever.  It's bloody impossible to do on most floors.  Maybe replace it with something else?  Heck if I know what.

Absolutely not.  I found that and I went "haha yeah right."  Time on it was 3 minuets.

Some other...items I've found highly suspect too, like "+4HP until you use a missile."  Sorry mate, I'm using that missile as soon as I see a health shard box.  And it doesn't reset when you travel to a new room, no.  It's never ever use missiles ever again.  And I paid money for it (admittedly it was dirt cheap and I used the missile to get a shard as soon as I could to see if it was per room or forever).

I think I'm also going to not look at loot chests until I've fully cleared the level, because +1 shield after the level, but your shields are drained now item is just too risky (and it vanishes if you leave the room, which is not noted anywhere in the UI).

Yeah, I dont like the missile one much either.  Pretty bad. Missiles are just too useful for stuff. It may have been thought up before health shards were in the game, I'm not sure.  Now, it might be a bit better if it was "dont use missiles till end of floor to get this bonus" instead of "never use again".  But still, I dont like the missile restriction idea too much.

If anyone has any suggestions for new types of Probation items, by all means, let us know.  I would indeed like to see the non-fitting ones replaced with ones that work well with the current balance of the game.

[Logorouge]

On the note of those, I think the time-limit one doesnt work whatsoever.  It's bloody impossible to do on most floors.  Maybe replace it with something else?  Heck if I know what.

Hm, instead of "clear the floor in 3min" what if it was "kill this floor's boss in 5min"? This way you at least have a chance on most floors AND you don't have to sacrifice absurd amounts of XP/credits/treasures.

Edit: Could the time be adjusted depending on which floor you picked it up? Adding a minute per floor the further you are would keep it feasible for longer.

[Hearteater]

If anyone has any suggestions for new types of Probation items, by all means, let us know.  I would indeed like to see the non-fitting ones replaced with ones that work well with the current balance of the game.

What about changing that missile item to: "+X max hp, take 1 damage each time you use a missile." Pick an X that works. Not a prohibition item anymore, but more interesting and useful.

[Draco18s]

What about changing that missile item to: "+X max hp, take 1 damage each time you use a missile." Pick an X that works. Not a prohibition item anymore, but more interesting and useful.

There is a possible downside here and its worth noting:
"Take no damage" is both a challenge (floor reward doodad) and shows up as something else too (not recalling what right now).

I am  unsure if making that "take 1 damage when you use a missile" should avoid that restriction ("take no damage AND use no missiles" is kind of harsh) or what.

[Hearteater]

No, remove the "don't use missile restriction" entirely. You are getting more max hp permanently. But you are also taking 1 dmg whenever you use a missile for the rest of your run.