Author Topic: So. Sacrifice Shops.  (Read 3359 times)

Offline Draco18s

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So. Sacrifice Shops.
« on: February 15, 2016, 03:11:07 PM »


Cost: 3 of 10.

How many (max) hitpoints will I have after purchasing it?
« Last Edit: February 15, 2016, 03:13:04 PM by Draco18s »

Offline crazyroosterman

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Re: So. Sacrifice Shops.
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2016, 03:48:43 PM »
em 7?.........if there's meant to be a screenshot there I'm afraid I cant see it at all.
c.r

Offline ptarth

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Re: So. Sacrifice Shops.
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2016, 03:59:23 PM »
Depends on how many other sacrifice items you've purchased? Current price is: X +2(n+1). Where X is the listed price and n is the number of sacrifice items you have purchased.
Note: This post contains content that is meant to be whimsical. Any belittlement or trivialization of complex issues is only intended to lighten the mood and does not reflect upon the merit of those positions.

Offline steelstiletto

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Re: So. Sacrifice Shops.
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2016, 04:06:01 PM »
em 7?.........if there's meant to be a screenshot there I'm afraid I cant see it at all.
Imgur links seem to be having issues embedding on forums recently... If you right click, you can view the link and see the picture. He has 6 current health and 10 max health in the screenshot. I'm not familiar enough with the mechanics myself, but I would guess that it spends used health first, so you would be at 6 of 7 after purchase.

Depends on how many other sacrifice items you've purchased? Current price is: X +2(n+1). Where X is the listed price and n is the number of sacrifice items you have purchased.

So it will cost more than it actually says it will? That seems misleading and like a UI issue...

Offline crazyroosterman

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Re: So. Sacrifice Shops.
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2016, 04:19:07 PM »
em 7?.........if there's meant to be a screenshot there I'm afraid I cant see it at all.
Imgur links seem to be having issues embedding on forums recently... If you right click, you can view the link and see the picture. He has 6 current health and 10 max health in the screenshot. I'm not familiar enough with the mechanics myself, but I would guess that it spends used health first, so you would be at 6 of 7 after purchase.

Depends on how many other sacrifice items you've purchased? Current price is: X +2(n+1). Where X is the listed price and n is the number of sacrifice items you have purchased.

So it will cost more than it actually says it will? That seems misleading and like a UI issue...
still nothing but ptarths already answered pretty well so it doesn't really matter.
c.r

Offline Draco18s

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Re: So. Sacrifice Shops.
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2016, 04:44:54 PM »
Ok, so it is a misleading UI issue.  I am not fond of hidden costs.  If it says it's going to cost 3, it better cost 3.  There have been times where I look at a part and go "sure, for 5 hp that looks like a good deal" and it ends up costing me 7.  Half my hitpoints was fine, 70% was not.  If I'd known it was going to be 7 instead of 5 I'd have said "nope!" and moved on.

The other thing is that the UI determines if I can buy something based on the listed cost.  Now, I haven't seen an instance where it was right on the threshold (e.g. "costs 6 of 7") but I have seen things over the threshold (e.g. "8 of 5"), but I can damn well be sure that if it read "costs: 5 of 7" and was red I'd be confused, because 5 is less than 7.  And if it was green and I did buy it and died as a result I'd be pretty upset.

(Also, try refreshing the image, I've noticed occasionally that the image host I uses does something odd: it'll look fine for me, but tiny as hell for everyone else.  Finally saw one of the tiny versions when I posted this and dig around to get the url to the full size and edited the post).

Offline Misery

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Re: So. Sacrifice Shops.
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2016, 05:03:03 PM »
Ok, so it is a misleading UI issue.  I am not fond of hidden costs.  If it says it's going to cost 3, it better cost 3.  There have been times where I look at a part and go "sure, for 5 hp that looks like a good deal" and it ends up costing me 7.  Half my hitpoints was fine, 70% was not.  If I'd known it was going to be 7 instead of 5 I'd have said "nope!" and moved on.

The other thing is that the UI determines if I can buy something based on the listed cost.  Now, I haven't seen an instance where it was right on the threshold (e.g. "costs 6 of 7") but I have seen things over the threshold (e.g. "8 of 5"), but I can damn well be sure that if it read "costs: 5 of 7" and was red I'd be confused, because 5 is less than 7.  And if it was green and I did buy it and died as a result I'd be pretty upset.

(Also, try refreshing the image, I've noticed occasionally that the image host I uses does something odd: it'll look fine for me, but tiny as hell for everyone else.  Finally saw one of the tiny versions when I posted this and dig around to get the url to the full size and edited the post).

It's not a hidden cost.  It's a bug.  There's been issues with that whole thing lately... pretty annoying.

Offline Hearteater

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Re: So. Sacrifice Shops.
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2016, 05:05:26 PM »
As of 1.013, sac rooms cost the listed amount, plus 2. They appear to increment the "number of sacrifice items purchased" counter BEFORE deducting the health for the current purchase, which is why it costs 2 more health than it displays. There is already a mantis report for this.

Offline Draco18s

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Re: So. Sacrifice Shops.
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2016, 05:59:20 PM »
As of 1.013, sac rooms cost the listed amount, plus 2. They appear to increment the "number of sacrifice items purchased" counter BEFORE deducting the health for the current purchase, which is why it costs 2 more health than it displays. There is already a mantis report for this.

Attached my screenshots to that issue.

Offline zharmad

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Re: So. Sacrifice Shops.
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2016, 06:49:07 PM »
I died to this bug on Friday... -_-

Thinks: This sacrifice item costs 5 health, and I have 6. I'll survive with 1 health until I pick up more shards.
NOPE

Offline crazyroosterman

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Re: So. Sacrifice Shops.
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2016, 07:59:25 PM »
I died to this bug on Friday... -_-

Thinks: This sacrifice item costs 5 health, and I have 6. I'll survive with 1 health until I pick up more shards.
NOPE
hey at least that's better than the time I picked up an item(not sacrifice shop) and instantly died.
c.r

Offline Pumpkin

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Re: So. Sacrifice Shops.
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2016, 06:41:47 AM »
I have to say I'm not even found of this increasing price mechanism. I'm incredibly greedy with that sort of things (I used to take as much devil's deals I can in Isaac) and I wish it is more reliable. I don't fully understand the interest of this increasing price ; it's like if the items with a cash price would have an increasing price, it would be silly, right? So why can't I be very greedy and take all most life-costed items? There even is a "challenge item" for taking all life-costed items in a floor!

It's kind of like the increasing hacking price in AI War; I can understand that because players are encouraged to use HaP in diverse sorts of hacking, but I still feel my money has less and less worth. And it's lame. A game shouldn't do that for player's enjoyment's sake. For HaP in AI War it's okay, sort of, because else things could go haywire. But in Starward Rogue, I think it's just frustrating and arbitrary limiting.

Okay, look, the only reason I could imagine and I would accept is because money and life doesn't scale the same way as levels go; players gain a steady amount of money per level but an increasing amount of life per level, so the cash prices remain constant and the life prices increase. If this would be the reason, no problem; it would be pretty wise. But as far as I understand the game in its current state, this is not the case: life gain doesn't increase, and cash neither. So freaking why is life cost increasing?

Also, it's encouraging a bad strategy. Trading too much life in items is tempting to new players (and some advanced player too) and is not the best strategy. A moderate approach with balanced life and items is recommended. But by increasing life prices the game lures players into following a bad yet fun/appealing strategy. Mark Rosewater talked about that kind of bad design in Magic (MTG); I remember him saying they trashed many mechanisms because they tend to lure players into mana-screwing themselves. According to him, a fun mechanism leading to bad strategies is plain bad design. I feel this increasing-life-cost mechanism is exactly that.

TL;DR:
Increasing life cost: explain or remove.
Please.
Please excuse my english: I'm not a native speaker. Don't hesitate to correct me.
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Offline Cinth

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Re: So. Sacrifice Shops.
« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2016, 08:04:02 AM »
When you can run 7 floors, grab all the sac items you want and still have 50 life to play with....
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Offline Misery

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Re: So. Sacrifice Shops.
« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2016, 02:23:09 PM »
Yeah, pretty much.

These are powerful items, and it's just too easy to get them in alot of cases.  People were ending up all-powerful on like, floor 2.  Which shouldnt happen.

It was either that, or heavily weaken all of those items, so... yeah.   That happened.

Offline Hearteater

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Re: So. Sacrifice Shops.
« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2016, 03:16:41 PM »
Blade module aside, I don't see what sacrifice shop items are worth even buying. So technically, "When you can run 7 floors, grab all the sac items you want and still have 50 life to play with...." because I only want one item, and with 50 life I can certainly afford it. Maybe there are items I haven't unlocked yet.