Author Topic: Redshift with shields  (Read 679 times)

Offline Chthon

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Redshift with shields
« on: September 24, 2016, 11:59:05 PM »
Apparently Shield tech can give Redshift shields, despite pretty much every shield item being removed from the game for it, and no shield perks. Did you forget to remove the shield tech for Redshift?

Playing Redshift with a shield is easy mode. :)


Offline Chthon

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Re: Redshift with shields
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2016, 12:05:58 AM »
Also, the main gun that destroys shots. It can't hit the charging enemies at all, no matter how you dodge. Perhaps something should be done about that since it pretty much forces you to use missiles if you don't have an energy weapon that can deal with them.

Offline Misery

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Re: Redshift with shields
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2016, 12:32:55 AM »
Which charging enemy are you referring to?

Offline Draco18s

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Re: Redshift with shields
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2016, 12:34:13 AM »
Bulldogs, probably.

Offline Chthon

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Re: Redshift with shields
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2016, 01:20:10 AM »
The ones that put a double diamond bullet in front of them and move very quickly when they are close. The main gun that destroys enemy shots repeatedly removes their shot, but they immediately put up a new shot preventing you from ever hitting them. I had to spam missiles to kill them which is sub optimal.

Offline ptarth

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Re: Redshift with shields
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2016, 02:31:52 AM »
Energy weapon?
I'm not sure if this is a feature or a problem. Based on the mechanics, it is behaving as specified. But is it "right"? I dunno.
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Offline Misery

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Re: Redshift with shields
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2016, 03:52:22 AM »
If it's a situation where the player requires either an energy weapon or missiles to destroy something and cant use the main gun, it's somehow broken.  Requiring that the player use a limited resource to kill something due to main gun ineffectiveness is a big no-no here.

I'm not sure what to suggest for this particular enemy though.  Not exactly the sort of problem I normally deal with when it comes to enemy patterns and such.  For the most part we've been really good about avoiding this issue.

Offline Mánagarmr

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Re: Redshift with shields
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2016, 07:26:46 AM »
Main weapon can't harm the Bulldogs? I wasn't aware.
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Offline Pepisolo

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Re: Redshift with shields
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2016, 09:31:34 AM »
Quote
Main weapon can't harm the Bulldogs? I wasn't aware.

Only when using the Guardian Gun apparently. Although, I just tested it and you can hit them consistently if you get really close and circle fast although that's probably a bit too difficult. I can probably just put a fix in so that the Bullrush Horns can't be intercepted.

Offline Chthon

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Re: Redshift with shields
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2016, 11:04:23 AM »
Guardian gun, that was it. Yeah, it has problems with those rushing enemies, especially in narrow corridors. Even if I dragged them into the open, I didn't seem to be able to circle around them fast enough to deal with them.

I was going to complain about centrifuge with that gun, but I managed to beat him without damage, despite the fight taking a long time. The gun does say it's difficult to use after all. What ended up getting me was the Bulldogs when I ran out of missiles. I couldn't hit them at all no matter what I tried.

It was an interesting weapon though, allowing strategies you wouldn't normally try, and it rewarded high attack speed over high damage as well. It just breaks when you have an enemy that instantly replaces it's shot the second you shoot it, and keeps that shot between you and it.

Other interesting enemies that required a change of tactics: Bastille, you can normally shoot his walls, but now you can shoot through several walls, which affords you some breathing room to avoid that nova of his.
Those disc enemies with the 3 blades, they can get scary if you don't kill them quick as when you shoot a blade it breaks it's pattern, and the disc enemy will summon 3 more after a second. He might end up with dozens of those spinning blades making it hard to hit him at all.
Saucer enemies are usually a headache because of the large shot size, but once I remembered what my gun did, I could just erase their shots and move in for the kill.
The boomerang guys also can't throw a broken boomerang, hehe.

Anyways, back to what the original post was about. Is Redshift supposed to be able to get shields? I was under the impression that shields were a no-no for it. Hence why I never see shield options anywhere else other than shield tech.

Offline Draco18s

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Re: Redshift with shields
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2016, 11:35:48 AM »
Did you ever try using your energy weapon?  When I last used the Guardian Gun I wrecked house with it.  Yes, the bulldogs gave me problems, but not deadly ones.

Offline Chthon

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Re: Redshift with shields
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2016, 12:03:56 PM »
The point Draco is not that the energy weapons cannot destroy them, but that they are limited use, so you could find yourself in a situation that you cannot even hurt them. Another situation is not having an energy weapon or having the energy shield weapon which doesn't really do damage.

Offline Pepisolo

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Re: Redshift with shields
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2016, 04:15:56 PM »
Quote
Anyways, back to what the original post was about. Is Redshift supposed to be able to get shields? I was under the impression that shields were a no-no for it. Hence why I never see shield options anywhere else other than shield tech.

I'm not sure, really. I don't remember a specific no shields policy for Redshift, but the mech was implemented by Chris, I think, and the perks maybe originally set up by Dayton. There might  be a way to stop Shield Tech from seeding on Redshift runs, although maybe not. It doesn't sound too crazy to allow that one item on Redshift runs to me, but I don't play that mech much.

Offline Logorouge

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Re: Redshift with shields
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2016, 04:30:24 PM »
I'm not sure, really. I don't remember a specific no shields policy for Redshift, but the mech was implemented by Chris, I think, and the perks maybe originally set up by Dayton. There might  be a way to stop Shield Tech from seeding on Redshift runs, although maybe not. It doesn't sound too crazy to allow that one item on Redshift runs to me, but I don't play that mech much.
I always thought his disadvantage was having no starting shield as opposed to no shield at all.
Is he that powerful with a shield? I'm terrible with him regardless of how many layers of shield I got, so I don't know either.

Offline Chthon

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Re: Redshift with shields
« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2016, 08:32:56 PM »
I'm not sure, really. I don't remember a specific no shields policy for Redshift, but the mech was implemented by Chris, I think, and the perks maybe originally set up by Dayton. There might  be a way to stop Shield Tech from seeding on Redshift runs, although maybe not. It doesn't sound too crazy to allow that one item on Redshift runs to me, but I don't play that mech much.
I always thought his disadvantage was having no starting shield as opposed to no shield at all.
Is he that powerful with a shield? I'm terrible with him regardless of how many layers of shield I got, so I don't know either.
He starts with no shield, and very few hp. He's meant to be a glass cannon, able to absorb one, maybe two hits before dying. However you can stop at any time to consider your actions. I think the intention was that every mistake has a cost. A shield breaks that as you can now make a mistake every room without any cost whatsoever.

That's just my interpretation from what the game says and how it feels. I mean you could stack HP and damage reduction until your mistakes are pretty meaningless, but that comes with a cost of what you could have had if you spent that HP on other things. The shield tech has literally no downside for him as he has no shields to lose for the floor, so no reason not to ever take it.

I shudder to think of how easy it would be to have 2 shields if you get lucky enough to find 2 shield techs.