(Probably) Tiny Exploits

[Monkooky]

Neither of these things are huge deals (probably). But, they can be abused.

First, teleport wossnames with explosive weapons.
Using a teleporter kills all bullets in an area for a short while, effectively stopping your projectiles from doing damage. Explosive weapons, however, still go boom.
You can abuse this by swapping back and forth and firing your grenade launcher, and being close enough to the enemy that they are hit by the explosion.
However, this is extremely clunky to exploit, so it doesn't greatly affect the game.

Second, the shield drone with walls. Untested- use compact molecules?
Normally, the shield drone is slightly bigger than your mech. When you stand flush against a wall, the shield drone overlaps you. This makes you mostly invincible while the drone is in the portion of it's orbit facing the wall. I need to test more to see how reliable this is, and I really need to test what happens when compact molecules join the party.
This one might be incredibly broken, but I've not played with it enough to say.

[Pepisolo]

Interesting possible exploits. I've never completely liked the teleporter destroying your shots behaviour, although it was necessary to prevent cheese tactics. If we could think of a better alternative, that'd be cool. This missile exploit does seem clunky enough that it's not a big problem, though, yeah.

The familiar wall behaviour was a great annoyance to Keith I think. Maybe familiars should just go through walls, I can't remember why we didn't go down that route.

[Misery]

The familiar wall behaviour was a great annoyance to Keith I think. Maybe familiars should just go through walls, I can't remember why we didn't go down that route.

It would open up a whole new box of cheese.

[ptarth]

Also, I believe that familiar enemies would then also be able to hide in walls.

[Pepisolo]

The familiar wall behaviour was a great annoyance to Keith I think. Maybe familiars should just go through walls, I can't remember why we didn't go down that route.

It would open up a whole new box of cheese.

Specifics? I'm not saying there aren't any, but nothing's coming immediately to mind. Presumably familiars wouldn't be able to shoot through walls. How does Isaac do it, doesn't that have mostly orbital familiars?

Also, I believe that familiar enemies would then also be able to hide in walls.

Yeah, but orbital familiars don't really take damage in the game. Only one I can think of is that consumable one that isn't very good, and even then it'd have to rotate out of the wall at some point. I dunno, the orbital squished against a wall behaviour has always seemed a bit odd to me.

Edit: just had a quick test, it looks like 1 tile thick walls would be the main problem. The familiars could just about orbit beyond these and thus cheese possibilities would surface. Maybe if the orbit distance was reduced this would not be a problem, but I'm presuming we already went through this back during the alpha, which is why the behaviour was changed. I can't recall that myself, though.

[Misery]

For player familiars, chances are with walls that are one block thick, the player could use them to fire through those, effectively.   There may be other tricks too.

Isaac gets around this by not getting around this.  Seriously, it doesn't do anything about it.  You can chop up enemies through walls with orbital flies and whatever.


For that other bit, he means enemy familiars.  If they end up passing into/through a wall you cant shoot them; it just ends up taking too long for no reason.

[Pepisolo]

For player familiars, chances are with walls that are one block thick, the player could use them to fire through those, effectively.   There may be other tricks too.

Isaac gets around this by not getting around this.  Seriously, it doesn't do anything about it.  You can chop up enemies through walls with orbital flies and whatever.


For that other bit, he means enemy familiars.  If they end up passing into/through a wall you cant shoot them; it just ends up taking too long for no reason.

Doh, I just edited my post after some testing. Yeah, 1 block thick walls are the problem......although it does look like a reduced orbiting distance could help with that but maybe not. I see, on the enemy familiar thing, although I would think that enemy familiars would need a different behaviour anyway. But then why have two different familiar set ups, I guess. Oh well, things work currently. If it ain't broke...etc.

[Monkooky]

So the teleporter cheese. Really clunky with explosive weapons, sure.
Deep Blue's familiar is also unhindered by teleporting.

Is it possible to flat out disable the player's shooting?
If so, no shooting+phase out would be a much cleaner solution than the anti-bullet field.