Author Topic: New player: Thoughts on the different mechs so far!  (Read 224 times)

Offline Valtiel

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New player: Thoughts on the different mechs so far!
« on: October 05, 2018, 09:46:13 AM »
I haven't really got to play around with the Humble, Zephyr, or Penumbra mechs yet.

White Gloss

100% vanilla and a good choice for new players. The rain cannon is a decent secondary for the inexperienced, but there are better options out there; this is good because it encourages swapping stuff in and out. The large health pool is a nice safe buffer for new players, while people who want to take risks can use it to bling themselves out in the Sacrifice shops.

Verdict: Solid, good for players of all experience levels.


Flame Tank

I love this one. The design is simple, but it just works so well! The guardian blaster essentially works as a replacement for blocking enemy shots with missiles, allowing you to conserve them for breaking walls and dealing damage. The double shield is great for new players, and I like not having to worry about finding a better primary weapon.

My first Normal difficulty success was with the Flame Tank. I got lucky with the perks, though:
  • Energy converter
  • Resupply
  • +100% missile damage boost
  • ...and I found a triple missile launcher.
I might even have found that 300% missile damage sacrifice item. Bosses just melted when I opened up with the missile barrage.

Verdict: Great, probably more new-player-friendly than the White Gloss.

Indigo Dipole

I don't like this at all. It's extremely good at surviving, but it can't kill anything. To make matters worse, this mech doesn't actually have a special ability as far as I can tell, it just has a very interesting energy and missile weapon at the start - which means that when you replace them, you're left with an inferior White Gloss. And you will have to replace them because otherwise you have no real source of damage.

I'm not sure how to fix it. A better primary weapon would go a long way. I'd gladly trade some health or shield for more damage output.

Verdict: A miss.

Green Envy

Fun to play, but I'm afraid I have to critique the design a little - its "extra cash drops from enemies" ability is good, but thematically it overlaps with the Humble Mech that does the whole shopping spree thing much better (I know you came up with the Envy first, so it's not like it was a bad idea when you thought this would be the treasure-hunter mech). The other small issue is that the "find items a floor earlier" stops being useful on the lowest floors, but really that's not a huge problem.

Part of the fun of treasure hunting is nullified when you find items that you don't want. So here's an alternative to the Envy's cash drops, designed to encourage you to constantly change weapons and try new things, and add a "yay!" whenever you find a new weapon, attachment, or consumable even if it's not quite as good as your current one.

Innovator - Whenever you pick up a new energy weapon, missile system, attachment or consumable, you gain XP but the item you dropped is lost.

Verdict: Good concept, needs a small tweak to differentiate it from the Humble.

Deep Blue

"Hard to use" is right; I haven't got the hang of this one yet. Coming straight into it after the Flame Tank's missile frenzy was a bad call. I'll try again later and hopefully have a bit more luck.

My second attempt went a bit better. Still died, but that was simply poor tactical planning rather than not knowing how to handle the mech. I've concluded that I don't like the Spine Ballista, mainly because there's no charge-up SFX so you can't really get a feel for it getting more powerful as you hold down the button.

I think the biggest problem with Deep Blue is an RNG issue. Its biggest benefit is the increased effect from energy boosts, but you're not guaranteed to find any, and without them it's a bit lacklustre. With them, though, I imagine it would be very interesting, using the drone assist to get through the early floors and masses of energy later.

Verdict: Solid, but I wish charge-up weapons had a better sound or visual indicator.

Redshift

I love it. The only problem is that it forces me to use the keyboard and mouse, since you can't aim with a gamepad without firing and thus letting time run again. I can't really compare it to anything else since it's such a different game. I think one run with this might be enough for me, though, since it's not exactly quick going!

The biggest weakness (in terms of power level, not fun) of the Redshift is the crappy primary weapon. In my run, it took a long time before I found a good replacement, but once I did I was destroying everything. Hilariously, I ended up with the railgun primary, the precision railgun secondary, and a railgun module attachment. Yo dawg, I heard you like to snipe, so I put a railgun on your railgun so you can snipe while you snipe.

Verdict: Great.

Alpha

I hear you like front-loading your power level? Starts with a fantastic basic weapon, a perfectly respectable energy weapon, and can get lucky and get top-tier perks (like the +30% Brute perk, large energy pack, or Berserker) right from the start of the game.

My first run with an Alpha mech was an absolute kerbstomp of everything that stood in my way, but I think I got lucky - it was another Missile Party build, including a 100% missile damage perk, the 300% missile damage sacrifice item, a Torpedo Launcher to help conserve missiles for boss fights, a Big Leaky Battery to ensure every room started with a beautiful torpedo barrage, and finishing off Terminus with the aid of a "double damage for ten seconds" consumable. To help this, I got some credit-boosting items and saved up my money to buy the entire contents of a robot shop. Twice. Six drones? Yes, please. Between the slow-field drone, the shot-interceptor drone, the  defender drone, and the shot-clearing blade attachment, I was untouchable.

Verdict: Solid.

Warhog

Good grief that's an amazing pair of starting weapons. I don't get what's going on with the missiles, though - does the Warhog just fire the whole stockpile all at once? I guess it kills bosses pretty well, but it's terrible for the things you actually want missiles for: Blocking shots and revealing health shards. Because of that, the "tough" Warhog will actually end up with less health than other mechs just because it can't collect health as easily.

I get hit a lot when playing this mech. It's big and slow, and I haven't yet got the hang of using sprint in combat, but I think I'll do better once I get more practice.

The biggest problem (in both power level and fun) with the Warhog is health shard collection. The only way to do it economically is to empty your missile stockpile into a miniboss or a difficult room, then pick up one (and only one) missile, find a shard, spend the missile, find another single missile, find another single shard... it's tedious, and it means that four-missile packs feel like a wasted opportunity.

I don't know how to fix this. You could give the Warhog an explosive-damage secondary weapon like the torpedo launcher, but losing the sentries would be a huge shame. You could make health shards spawn under different conditions (from bosses and minibosses rather than in blocks, maybe?), but I don't know if that's possible in the engine; or just let the Warhog automatically gain one or two permanent HPs every floor. You could let it start with a consumable that turns the primary weapon damage into explosive-type for a short while, but that only lets you get shards from one floor and then you're not likely to find another one. Or you could just accept it's not going to be collecting many shards and give it more starting health.

Verdict: Good concept, and it feels powerful and 'military', but it would benefit from a small tweak.

Paladin

I cannot for the life of me get the hang of the shield weapon. I think this might have to be another keyboard-and-mouse job, or just a case of "get a replacement secondary ASAP".

This would be so much better if firing the secondary weapon moved the shield in front of the mech rather than having to turn left-side-on to attacks. Does anyone know how to mod that? The Paladin is unusable for me at the moment and it's a real shame.

Verdict: Super cool concept, but I struggle with the secondary too much to really review it.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2018, 10:39:49 AM by Valtiel »

Offline Draco18s

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Re: New player: Thoughts on the different mechs so far!
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2018, 02:14:10 PM »
Indigo Dipole

I don't like this at all. It's extremely good at surviving, but it can't kill anything. To make matters worse, this mech doesn't actually have a special ability as far as I can tell, it just has a very interesting energy and missile weapon at the start - which means that when you replace them, you're left with an inferior White Gloss. And you will have to replace them because otherwise you have no real source of damage.

Indigo is my main. Well, flame tank is my main, but I feel its a little too easy for my skill level. :P

You're right about swapping secondary and missile weapons, which is why I often don't. Not unless I find the upgraded version of the secondary or a really solid missile weapon (the shot attractor is neat, but I almost never use it for that anyway). The repulsion mines are really good. Don't expect it to be dealing damage, use it to get up close and personal with bosses and hide behind it. Any method of increasing your energy capacity is a godsend (except the leaky battery: avoid that one).

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Warhog

Good grief that's an amazing pair of starting weapons. I don't get what's going on with the missiles, though - does the Warhog just fire the whole stockpile all at once? I guess it kills bosses pretty well, but it's terrible for the things you actually want missiles for: Blocking shots and revealing health shards. Because of that, the "tough" Warhog will actually end up with less health than other mechs just because it can't collect health as easily.

Yes, it fires all of its missiles at once. The more it consumes, the bigger the AOE and the more damage it does.

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Paladin

This would be so much better if firing the secondary weapon moved the shield in front of the mech rather than having to turn left-side-on to attacks. Does anyone know how to mod that? The Paladin is unusable for me at the moment and it's a real shame.

That's intentional. I didn't design it, but I know its an intentional choice.

Offline Logorouge

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Re: New player: Thoughts on the different mechs so far!
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2018, 07:56:50 PM »
Alpha

I hear you like front-loading your power level? Starts with a fantastic basic weapon, a perfectly respectable energy weapon, and can get lucky and get top-tier perks (like the +30% Brute perk, large energy pack, or Berserker) right from the start of the game.
Glad to hear you had fun with Alpha (also known as Roulette). Although many players find the mech too fragile, it quickly becomes quite powerful after a few levelups.

Warhog

The biggest problem (in both power level and fun) with the Warhog is health shard collection. The only way to do it economically is to empty your missile stockpile into a miniboss or a difficult room, then pick up one (and only one) missile, find a shard, spend the missile, find another single missile, find another single shard... it's tedious, and it means that four-missile packs feel like a wasted opportunity.
One thing you can use to deal with that is the magic hat sacrifice item, so you'll be able to regain missiles as you go. Missile-on-kills perks can also do the trick, but those are much less reliable.

Paladin

I cannot for the life of me get the hang of the shield weapon. I think this might have to be another keyboard-and-mouse job, or just a case of "get a replacement secondary ASAP".
Do you use the shield to bash the enemies in addition to blocking bullets? I started liking that secondary a lot more once I started shieldbashing my way through enemies.


I'm curious to hear your thoughts on Penumbra once you play with it. The reactions to that one differ a lot from player to player.  :P

Offline Pepisolo

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Re: New player: Thoughts on the different mechs so far!
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2018, 12:24:36 PM »
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I don't like this at all. It's extremely good at surviving, but it can't kill anything. To make matters worse, this mech doesn't actually have a special ability as far as I can tell, it just has a very interesting energy and missile weapon at the start - which means that when you replace them, you're left with an inferior White Gloss. And you will have to replace them because otherwise you have no real source of damage.

I'm not sure how to fix it. A better primary weapon would go a long way. I'd gladly trade some health or shield for more damage output.

I think the combination of the gravity based secondary and missile launcher are what give this mech its personality. This mech is more defensive, with its bullet repelling ability, so it's not really meant to have much attack power at the start. A more powerful primary might be possible, but I think it's nice to have a mech that is mostly all about defense.

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The biggest problem (in both power level and fun) with the Warhog is health shard collection. The only way to do it economically is to empty your missile stockpile into a miniboss or a difficult room, then pick up one (and only one) missile, find a shard, spend the missile, find another single missile, find another single shard... it's tedious, and it means that four-missile packs feel like a wasted opportunity.

Yeah, it's meant to be poor at resource gathering. It is unusual but this allows us to really ramp the power of the mech up while also making the mech play quite different mechanically. The more missile capacity you have the bigger explosion.

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I don't know how to fix this. You could give the Warhog an explosive-damage secondary weapon like the torpedo launcher, but losing the sentries would be a huge shame. You could make health shards spawn under different conditions (from bosses and minibosses rather than in blocks, maybe?), but I don't know if that's possible in the engine; or just let the Warhog automatically gain one or two permanent HPs every floor.

The mech does have a -1 damage reduction from the start, so over the course of a run that's going to save you quite a bit of health.

Quote
Part of the fun of treasure hunting is nullified when you find items that you don't want. So here's an alternative to the Envy's cash drops, designed to encourage you to constantly change weapons and try new things, and add a "yay!" whenever you find a new weapon, attachment, or consumable even if it's not quite as good as your current one.

Innovator - Whenever you pick up a new energy weapon, missile system, attachment or consumable, you gain XP but the item you dropped is lost.

Fantastic idea, potentially as a new Green Envy ability or some kind of item. At the moment, it's probably not feasible in the current engine, though. Probably... although I can think of one possible way to implement it, although that's a bit of a longshot.

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Solid, but I wish charge-up weapons had a better sound or visual indicator.

Yeah, I agree. It's unfortunate, but we're quite limited in what the engine is capable of in terms of charge SFX and visuals. This is why we pretty much avoid charge type weapons for the most part as it's hard to make them satisfying.

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This would be so much better if firing the secondary weapon moved the shield in front of the mech rather than having to turn left-side-on to attacks. Does anyone know how to mod that? The Paladin is unusable for me at the moment and it's a real shame.

Yeah, this is deliberate to make the shield more skill based. We already have a combat shield in the game that covers the front of your mech but often it seems too powerful. This shield is more difficult to use, but should be more satisfying once you get used to it.

Thanks for the detailed feedback on all the mechs! That's much appreciated. :)