Arcen Games

Games => Starward Rogue => Topic started by: carldong on December 14, 2016, 04:31:57 AM

Title: Hard on keyboard?
Post by: carldong on December 14, 2016, 04:31:57 AM
So, after beaten 7 floors on... Very Easy(Yeah, I am totally new to action rogues), I gave it a try on Hard. Well, it turns out(of course) that I have totally no clue on how to maneuver across a screen of blazing bullets. I do notice that, even with slow mode, a single keypress will move the mech quite some distance, and only 45 degrees. Just asking the hard core players, is it really possible to use keyboard on hard? Or am I just not fast enough?

I hope that I can turn on Hard pattern on Very easy, so I can at least see the full-powered AI.
Title: Re: Hard on keyboard?
Post by: Misery on December 14, 2016, 05:52:41 AM
The patterns and such certainly are not designed to be handled with a keyboard.  Particularly hard mode, which is my doing, and which was entirely tested on a controller.  The game is stuffed with bullet-hell elements at it's higher levels of challenge, and that genre is one of those where a controller of some sort is pretty much considered a requirement.  For a game with those elements, keyboard controls simply don't allow for fine-tuning your movement in the way that's necessary here.  At least, not in comparison to an actual controller.

Now, the 45-degrees bit, by which I assume you mean 8-direction movement (the only type that's possible with WASD controls), the game IS tested for that.  When using the controller to test and tune these things, I use the dpad, actually, not the analog stick, when it comes to movement.  It's an old habit: Most of the games that inspire much of the design in here actually ONLY use 8-way movement... no analog.  So the game ends up tested in that way when I'm working on it.


Now, does all of this mean that Hard mode is impossible with a keyboard/mouse?  Nah.  But it certainly limits you, yes. Even for someone who is very good at these, this would be true.  Even an analog stick will give you better control.  If you have a PS4 or Xbox 360/1/whatever controller, I'd recommend using those instead.  Also, regardless of wether or not you're using a controller or keyboard, look in the options menu and make sure that "shmup movement" is turned on.  This removes the bit of momentum that the mech otherwise experiences, causing it to stop dead in it's tracks.


Though, there's also the fact that you're leaping into Hard so early.  Hard mode is designed for those that have completely mastered Normal mode.
Title: Re: Hard on keyboard?
Post by: carldong on December 14, 2016, 01:54:44 PM
Well, looks like I should try to get a controller then. For Hard, I am just.. trying to see how "hard" it would be.

And keyboard/mouse in large battle requires a hell lot of multiprocessing.
Title: Re: Hard on keyboard?
Post by: Logorouge on December 14, 2016, 05:42:51 PM
I'll have to try playing with a controller too. It might make Hard runs a little less exhausting.
You'd think I would have tried switching after all this time...  :P
Title: Re: Hard on keyboard?
Post by: Mánagarmr on December 15, 2016, 01:44:22 AM
Well, looks like I should try to get a controller then. For Hard, I am just.. trying to see how "hard" it would be.

And keyboard/mouse in large battle requires a hell lot of multiprocessing.
As someone who has beaten the game multiple times on Normal...Hard is HARD. I have yet to beat it on hard. It's really freaking hard.
Title: Re: Hard on keyboard?
Post by: carldong on December 15, 2016, 02:51:26 AM
Well, looks like I should try to get a controller then. For Hard, I am just.. trying to see how "hard" it would be.

And keyboard/mouse in large battle requires a hell lot of multiprocessing.
As someone who has beaten the game multiple times on Normal...Hard is HARD. I have yet to beat it on hard. It's really freaking hard.

I look forward to the day when Misery mode is finished :)
Title: Re: Hard on keyboard?
Post by: Misery on December 15, 2016, 03:26:54 AM
As someone who has beaten the game multiple times on Normal...Hard is HARD. I have yet to beat it on hard. It's really freaking hard.

(https://hellyontherun.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/my-job-here-is-done.jpg)
Title: Re: Hard on keyboard?
Post by: Mánagarmr on December 15, 2016, 04:25:08 AM
I have a feeling that once I beat Hard and try Misery mode, I will find you and I will punch you.
Title: Re: Hard on keyboard?
Post by: Misery on December 15, 2016, 09:43:27 AM
I really have to wonder how many times I've heard a line like that over the years.

Hm.  I'd probably never get an accurate count.
Title: Re: Hard on keyboard?
Post by: carldong on December 15, 2016, 04:27:23 PM
Just to ask, what exactly is a D-pad? The cross shaped keys on an XBox stick?

I don't have one at hand for now, but would it be easier to use that than an analog stick?

Hopefully I can beat Easy after switching to a better input device. Can't imagine that I can't clear Easy or pass 1st floor on Normal while I can streamroll Very Easy. Plus I just found that my laptop keyboard won't respond to extreme speed presses, and sometime responds twice. Ultrabooks are probably not designed for gaming.
Title: Re: Hard on keyboard?
Post by: Monkooky on December 16, 2016, 02:23:40 AM
Dirty secret, I actually prefer Mouse+Keyboard. I've got trouble aiming properly with the controller.
With mouse+keyboard, it helps a ton to hold down ctrl when you're doing precision dodging- this'll slow you down to about half speed.
Title: Re: Hard on keyboard?
Post by: ptarth on December 16, 2016, 02:27:12 AM
Ditto.
Title: Re: Hard on keyboard?
Post by: Mánagarmr on December 16, 2016, 04:13:27 AM
Just to ask, what exactly is a D-pad? The cross shaped keys on an XBox stick?

I don't have one at hand for now, but would it be easier to use that than an analog stick?

Hopefully I can beat Easy after switching to a better input device. Can't imagine that I can't clear Easy or pass 1st floor on Normal while I can streamroll Very Easy. Plus I just found that my laptop keyboard won't respond to extreme speed presses, and sometime responds twice. Ultrabooks are probably not designed for gaming.
D-pad = Directional Pad. So yes, it's the crosshaped thing. I'd say you're better off using analogue controls in this game (the being the stick) than direction digital controls (D-pad). If you must use digital input, use the keyboard. It's faster, more accurate and the D-pad on the Xbox controller sucks MASSIVE unicorn wang. It's awful, terrible, inaccurate and is a disgrace to controllers the world over. I don't think I've ever used a worse D-pad in my life, and yes, that includes the N64 which is renowned for being awful.

So either use the Xbox controller stick or use KB+M.
Title: Re: Hard on keyboard?
Post by: Misery on December 16, 2016, 05:47:02 AM
Just to ask, what exactly is a D-pad? The cross shaped keys on an XBox stick?

I don't have one at hand for now, but would it be easier to use that than an analog stick?

Hopefully I can beat Easy after switching to a better input device. Can't imagine that I can't clear Easy or pass 1st floor on Normal while I can streamroll Very Easy. Plus I just found that my laptop keyboard won't respond to extreme speed presses, and sometime responds twice. Ultrabooks are probably not designed for gaming.
D-pad = Directional Pad. So yes, it's the crosshaped thing. I'd say you're better off using analogue controls in this game (the being the stick) than direction digital controls (D-pad). If you must use digital input, use the keyboard. It's faster, more accurate and the D-pad on the Xbox controller sucks MASSIVE unicorn wang. It's awful, terrible, inaccurate and is a disgrace to controllers the world over. I don't think I've ever used a worse D-pad in my life, and yes, that includes the N64 which is renowned for being awful.

So either use the Xbox controller stick or use KB+M.

Ack, yes, I'd forgotten about that.  Normally dPads are muuuuuuuuch better than analogs for games like this.  Or fighting games.


....Unless you're using an Xbox controller of any sort.  Then it's about as accurate and coordinated as a drunken spider on a trampoline during an earthquake.  It is possible, and I'm not exaggerating here, for you to push UP on the dpad and have the game think you pushed DOWN.   It's THAT bad.  It really is a disgrace, yeah.   

I used to be stuck playing bullet-hell shmups with that little nightmare.  That I ever got anywhere in them is a wonder to me. 


If you have access to a PS3 or PS4 controller, though, just use those.  Those things work perfectly.  The PS4 one is what I use for this and basically everything else.  Dpad on that has no issues whatsoever.


....Really though, that Xbox controller.  What were they thinking?  And HOW has it not been fixed yet?  Do they really sit around and go "well nobody plays games that use the dpad anyway" or something?  I mean, it's been what, a freaking decade or so that they've had to fix it?  Ridiculous.

Granted, there ARE worse controllers out there.  But.... not by much.
Title: Re: Hard on keyboard?
Post by: Mánagarmr on December 16, 2016, 07:52:29 AM
Case in point on Xbox 360 D-pad being arse: https://youtu.be/6mPZsOUp3V0?t=15m3s
Title: Re: Hard on keyboard?
Post by: carldong on December 16, 2016, 08:02:46 PM
Hah, the only controller I own are Xbox 360 and Xbox One. OK, then maybe I should get a PS4 one, or just stick with my slow keyboard.

Just asking, what do you press to slow D-Pad movement? There is only the "press the L stick" option.

Oh, and I actually just tried XBox Analog stick, and it is a bit(read "very") difficult for me for now. Looks like no magic happens.

Although my laptop has a touch screen.... Maybe I will try using this to get laser-guided-precision aiming.
Title: Re: Hard on keyboard?
Post by: Misery on December 16, 2016, 11:25:39 PM
Well, you can change the bindings as you see fit... when I'm using the dpad I use L2 to handle the slowdown thing.

A big tip when dealing with controllers, at least in my opinion, is:  Don't use the "thumbstick buttons" for anything if you don't have to.   Bloody awkward things, I'll never quite know why they exist in the first place. 
Title: Re: Hard on keyboard?
Post by: carldong on December 17, 2016, 01:37:02 AM
Then let me try with those XBox stick first.... Hopefully still better than my keyboard that doesn't respond fast enough.

And, touch-screen-god's-hand-guidance doesn't quite work because, you know, the hand will block your view severely.

And as a side note, I encountered a Krill Spitter in a narrow corridor, and failed to kill it in one shot.

Instant later, the entire walkway is filled with stuff(krills?). I had to hang outside the corridor and waited for that thing to randomly zip by the entrance to kill it with the money-shooter(Humble, you know). Otherwise I have no way to close in without being stormed to death.

What is a better way to deal with these things? Maybe they are slightly less deadly than Pearls(or Banshees. I pray to not meet them.) but no less annoying in a walkway that is just slightly wider than my Mech.
Title: Re: Hard on keyboard?
Post by: Misery on December 17, 2016, 02:13:54 AM
Krills, well, firstly make sure other things in the area are already destroyed. Krills are Jumpscare type enemies so they will not attack or even move unless you get close. Other than that, try to get them in areas that aren't super open. Preferrably somewhere with corners that you can duck around.  Krills always fire directly at your position... this means you can lead their main shot into crashing into a wall, thus spawning less of the wandering shots.   Leading enemy shots in directions that make them easier to deal with is an important technique overall in a game like this. 

As for Banshees, they actually can be very easy.... the trick is to make sure that the Banshee is the final enemy on the screen.   Why?  Because when you then focus-fire it, and it explodes, the big shot that it's charging will vanish along with it.  So the big scream-wave never fires.    Banshees do absolutely nothing until you hit them with something, so... don't hit them with anything until you're ready to finish them in one go.  And don't fire missiles at them during the charge, as it causes their shot to go bonkers instantly.  AKA, right in your face.   There's a certain other enemy in the late-game that this approach works on as well.

And Pearls are... Pearls.  Haha.  They pretty much do exactly as they were designed to.  The only advice is "don't die".  Well, that, and try to lead their shots if you can.  They're no smarter than the Krills.
Title: Re: Hard on keyboard?
Post by: carldong on December 17, 2016, 02:21:13 AM
Well, guess I need to change the habit from Very Easy of spamming shots everywhere without looking what is in sight.

Then, each game run is soooooo long that sometimes I need to quit and resume later, and forgot what perks I already have.

BTW, I've seen you videos demonstrating boss fights in some sort of test room. However, I can't find that option in the UI(I'd like some practise). Is it well hidden somewhere, or need some command line arguments, or some magic keypresses?
Title: Re: Hard on keyboard?
Post by: carldong on December 17, 2016, 02:44:04 AM
Oh WOW, after I spent 2 minutes rebinding keys for my preferences -> Slow on LT, Fast on LB, Missile RB, Energy RT, I feel like I am playing a toal different game!

And now Normal feels like Easy on keyboard.

Although I have to complain about a specific room, which is composed of totally indestructable maze, lasers, and spikes, with a generator surrounded by maze and spike, and enemies hidden in all places. Yes, finding those enemies are difficult and time consuming, but that is fine.

The infuriating part is that, when I tried to destroy the generator, I missed 5 missiles because I either do that or risk stepping on spikes(I am already half step on it).

And that is first floor. I am on Humble, and thus have no shield. This room has only one set of teleporter, which doesn't really help passing through. I didn't note down the room name because I forgot to do so
Title: Re: Hard on keyboard?
Post by: Misery on December 17, 2016, 03:02:14 AM
Yeah, if you see that room again, get the room name and give that to me and I can fix whatever it is.  There's a number of rooms that need fixing probably, but finding out which ones they are exactly is hard.   In particular we need to get some rooms not taking so bloody long.  "Finding enemies" is something that even Chris had big complaints about and is definitely a problem.... not a fun aspect.  It really screws with the pacing of the game but usually doesn't actually add much challenge.   So when you find rooms that do that too much, or are just too crazy, just post the room name on the forum here.  The good thing is that room fixes take hardly any time to do.
Title: Re: Hard on keyboard?
Post by: carldong on December 17, 2016, 03:13:23 AM
Oh, and sort of a final "complaint" of this post. There is a kind of blue/green enemy of swarmer type(I think its leader is called Omega something), which creates a terrible high pitch noise when firing. I and some people, especially younger ones, are extremely sensitive to high frequencies like that, and this enemy stings my head, physically, in real life. I hope that the SFX can be changed.
Title: Re: Hard on keyboard?
Post by: carldong on December 17, 2016, 03:15:58 AM
Oh, and sort of a final "complaint" of this post. There is a kind of blue/green enemy of swarmer type(I think its leader is called Omega something), which creates a terrible high pitch noise when firing. I and some people, especially younger ones, are extremely sensitive to high frequencies like that, and this enemy stings my head, physically, in real life. I hope that the SFX can be changed.

Incorrect memory. It's called Swarm-bot, terrible, terrible sound.
Title: Re: Hard on keyboard?
Post by: Pepisolo on December 17, 2016, 04:31:25 PM
Oh, and sort of a final "complaint" of this post. There is a kind of blue/green enemy of swarmer type(I think its leader is called Omega something), which creates a terrible high pitch noise when firing. I and some people, especially younger ones, are extremely sensitive to high frequencies like that, and this enemy stings my head, physically, in real life. I hope that the SFX can be changed.

Incorrect memory. It's called Swarm-bot, terrible, terrible sound.

Ah, yeah. Might be a bit high pitched that one. I'll look for a different SFX, cheers!
Title: Re: Hard on keyboard?
Post by: carldong on December 18, 2016, 08:40:43 PM
Well, looks like that so long as I don't go too crazy, I can consistently beat up to the first form of Boss in Floor 1, on Hard. As long as my keyboard doesn't troll me too much by ignoring inputs.

Although I have no idea how to deal with Sunder.
Title: Re: Hard on keyboard?
Post by: Misery on December 18, 2016, 09:19:27 PM
This shows how to deal with Sunder on Hard mode:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owT7SrzQLEQ


I seem to have shown that video a lot at this point.  You sure aren't the only one to have trouble with that boss.
Title: Re: Hard on keyboard?
Post by: carldong on December 18, 2016, 09:33:48 PM
Can't see Youtube stuff in China, though.
Title: Re: Hard on keyboard?
Post by: Misery on December 18, 2016, 09:43:20 PM
.....Well.  That probably doesn't help very much then, does it... 

Er... it's hard to outright explain how to deal with a bullet-hell pattern, really.  Well, first phase: Mostly use small, short movements to deal with it... just keep slowly shifting around, at your max range.  The shots that break into even more shots aren't random... that's all aimed shots; one shot from each little burst is always directly at you, the others are at angles away from you.  So where all the chaos goes is dependent on where you are.  Move too much and it'll just get wonkier.

Second phase:  Stay far away, and start doing circles around it.  You pretty much *have* to do this.  Clockwise or counter-clockwise, it doesn't matter, choose one and start circling.  You wont be able to turn around.  It constantly re-creates that circle of green shots:  never go inside of that, always stay outside.  With the way the pattern works, as you're constantly rotating around the outside of the arena, the boss will effectively throw out walls of shots in your way, slow down and pass through those, and keep going, still don't turn around (and certainly don't stop).  MOST of your movement here should be with the slowdown function used.  If you don't pass through those little walls quickly enough, they'll distort and hit you, so you may need a burst of slightly faster movement at times.

Hope that helps without being too confusing.
Title: Re: Hard on keyboard?
Post by: carldong on December 18, 2016, 09:54:00 PM
OK, so I think the second phase is what I am doing incorrectly... But then my weapon don't seem to have enough range if I move at the outer ring, or maybe I am just imaging it.

I see that there are "test room" somewhere, but I don't seem to find it. Where can I enable that thing? I would like to practise a bit on the Boss Fights.
Title: Re: Hard on keyboard?
Post by: Logorouge on December 18, 2016, 10:16:18 PM
I see that there are "test room" somewhere, but I don't seem to find it. Where can I enable that thing? I would like to practise a bit on the Boss Fights.
For some reason, it's the Mod button on the main menu.
Title: Re: Hard on keyboard?
Post by: carldong on December 18, 2016, 10:32:50 PM
I see that there are "test room" somewhere, but I don't seem to find it. Where can I enable that thing? I would like to practise a bit on the Boss Fights.
For some reason, it's the Mod button on the main menu.
Ahh, a strike on a Mod button looks like "disable all mods" and I didn't click it once.
Title: Re: Hard on keyboard?
Post by: carldong on December 18, 2016, 10:47:13 PM
.....Well.  That probably doesn't help very much then, does it... 

Er... it's hard to outright explain how to deal with a bullet-hell pattern, really.  Well, first phase: Mostly use small, short movements to deal with it... just keep slowly shifting around, at your max range.  The shots that break into even more shots aren't random... that's all aimed shots; one shot from each little burst is always directly at you, the others are at angles away from you.  So where all the chaos goes is dependent on where you are.  Move too much and it'll just get wonkier.

Second phase:  Stay far away, and start doing circles around it.  You pretty much *have* to do this.  Clockwise or counter-clockwise, it doesn't matter, choose one and start circling.  You wont be able to turn around.  It constantly re-creates that circle of green shots:  never go inside of that, always stay outside.  With the way the pattern works, as you're constantly rotating around the outside of the arena, the boss will effectively throw out walls of shots in your way, slow down and pass through those, and keep going, still don't turn around (and certainly don't stop).  MOST of your movement here should be with the slowdown function used.  If you don't pass through those little walls quickly enough, they'll distort and hit you, so you may need a burst of slightly faster movement at times.

Hope that helps without being too confusing.

So, although I always die at the same spot trying to pass through the walls, but I see that keyboarding through is definitely possible. I really hoped that my field of view can be larger so that I can see whether I am actually doing any damage, and currently my visibility is quite assymmetric depends on where I am, because of the wide screen.
Title: Re: Hard on keyboard?
Post by: Misery on December 18, 2016, 11:11:28 PM
Test rooms are found in the "mods" section on the main screen.
Title: Re: Hard on keyboard?
Post by: carldong on December 18, 2016, 11:49:47 PM
Test rooms are found in the "mods" section on the main screen.

I just figured out. However, I think that icon really looks as if it means "disable all mods"...
Title: Re: Hard on keyboard?
Post by: ptarth on December 19, 2016, 12:27:38 AM
There are several screen options that can change your field of view.
First, the obvious screen resolution options
Settings>Graphics>Windowed Mode Settings (set to your size) for Windowed
Settings>Graphics>Fullscreen Settings (set to your size and check the use Fullscreen option) for Fullscreen

Also though, there is:
Settings>Graphics>Screen Scale (bar on the left, I set this to 1)
Settings>Graphics>Zoom (bar on the bottom right, I set this to 0.64)

If you mess up your settings and it doesn't want to load or let you revert, you'll need to delete the configuration files

...Steam...\Starward Rogue\RuntimeData\settings.bak
...Steam...\Starward Rogue\RuntimeData\settings.dat

The Mod icon is supposed to be the head of a hammer and a pen I believe. A crest of arms of sorts.
Title: Re: Hard on keyboard?
Post by: carldong on January 05, 2017, 08:17:59 AM
Just got a PS4 stick because I am blaming the joystick for my inability to beat Normal.

Simply by reading the previous sentence you know how it actually goes. I don't know how you guys are holding a joystick, but I find it near impossible to press the D-pad quick enough to respond, except moving horizontally or vertically. For the analog stick, it is very good except when I need to micro in opposite directions, where I sometimes accidentally move at the wrong direction. Then I hope I can actuallly use the analog stick as analog stick, where it is not "on/off" type of control.

Do you expert D-pad users press the buttons with your thumb? Or do you use some fancy way to hold the stick, or somehow have four thumbs?

OK, I hope Misery can answer this question... You said you tested the game using D-pad, so I assume you can clear Misery Mode perfectly with it, right?
Title: Re: Hard on keyboard?
Post by: Logorouge on January 05, 2017, 10:41:46 AM
OK, I hope Misery can answer this question... You said you tested the game using D-pad, so I assume you can clear Misery Mode perfectly with it, right?
But Misery mode isn't ready yet. Beating the placeholder wouldn't be much of an indication (although it would still be quite the feat).
Title: Re: Hard on keyboard?
Post by: Misery on January 05, 2017, 09:39:48 PM
OK, I hope Misery can answer this question... You said you tested the game using D-pad, so I assume you can clear Misery Mode perfectly with it, right?

I can clear anything, really.  The game to me isnt particularly hard; I'm used to the really nasty bullet-hell games (not Touhou, I mean nastier). 

Yes I'm aware of how braggy that sounds.  Just being honest though.  ANd yes, that's with the d-pad.  Any bullet-hell game, or Isaac-like thing, I'll always use a dpad as long as it's supported.  And sometimes if it isnt I'll force it.

This though is also why I get the difficulty wrong sometimes and need to tone it down in this game.  If we patch it and you find that something is WAY too hard for the difficulty level it's on, that's why, since I find most things a bit easy so it's hard for me to tell if I've gone overboard.   Granted, there are some enemies that are specifically meant to be nastier than most things.


Anyway, misery mode isnt ready yet.  That's currently being worked on.  Bloody difficult to make, I'll say that.  Hard mode was tough enough to set up.


Now for the problem you mentioned, yes, generally you're supposed to use your thumb on a dpad... I cant even imagine doing otherwise. 

I'd be interested to see how exactly you're holding and using the thing.  Are you actually taking your thumb off of the dpad entirely when you go to switch directions?  If so, dont do that.   Just sorta roll/shift it.... you should never be lifting off of the thing.  It sounds mostly like you just arent used to the thing, that's all.  Which makes sense... alot of games these days simply dont use the thing.  Players get used to analog sticks.
Title: Re: Hard on keyboard?
Post by: carldong on January 05, 2017, 11:50:26 PM
Just sorta roll/shift it.
OK, maybe it just takes some practise. Do you aim with analog, then?

yes, generally you're supposed to use your thumb on a dpad... I cant even imagine doing otherwis
I see some people use both their thumb and curled index finger(with the joint, maybe?). Those are PSP players, though, to simultaneously use analog and D-pad.

Oooh, and I just figured out what "The Creator" is, last night. Double enemies? Stats up? Hard pattern on Normal? Normal pattern on Very Easy? And 3 Health in an entire floor(that might just be RNG but I find it wayyyy to few)? Even with the additional EXP(spent on DMG bonus) factored in, the enemies have quite hefty HP.

And just another thing to notice. Impassable wall + Narrow Corridor + Wall-penetrating enemies(Spider, the thing with crossing "snakes", the something-turret(not blaze cannon)) is a very very difficult combo(for me) because I can't shoot at those nasty enemies, but they block my way. And worse, missiles don't seem to clear the cross-snaky thing.

And I get "All in the wrist" every single run. That is not intended, right? It is the thing that makes your normal shots clear missile blocks. Yes, I like it, but it feels that it is intended to be much rarer, but I got that in my previous 5 runs, all as an early Floor 2 perk. I used Deep Blue, Humble, and Treasure Hunter.
Title: Re: Hard on keyboard?
Post by: Misery on January 06, 2017, 03:30:37 AM
I aim with analog sometimes, other times I'll use the face buttons.  In the case of actual aiming it's usually better to go with analog technically.  8-way MOVEMENT with the dpad works very well, but 8-way AIMING is a bit restrictive (though not that much).  But I'll sometimes pick one or the other at random.  Dont know why.  Either is viable in the end though.


As for the bit wit the PSP, yeah, I've done that too.  Usually when playing Monster Hunter.  It was a HUGE complaint with that stupid thing, because for games like that there's no other way at all to control both character and camera at the same time.  The normal 3DS has the very same issue, and it's just as dumb on there.  There's a reason why controllers have more than 1 analog stick, really....

When it comes to the spiders and such, the best advice is just "take it slow".  This is important for most restrictive attack patterns.  The faster you move in a game like this, the more likely you are to get hit.  Make careful movements using the slowdown button, and stop moving entirely when needed.  And remember that your hitbox is smaller than it looks (hit F7 if you want to see exactly where it is and how big).  Enemies that have the ability to pierce walls, well, the reason it gives you trouble is indeed the entire reason they have that ability, heh.

As for the "all in the wrist" thing, I just.... what?  I dont think Iv'e even seen that.  It lets you break bombable walls by shooting them?   Hm.  That sounds a bit much to me, I"m not sure.  It DEFINITELY sounds like it shouldnt appear early on, that's for sure.

Yeah, you'd think I'd know this stuff already, but that'd make too much sense.
Title: Re: Hard on keyboard?
Post by: carldong on January 06, 2017, 08:40:05 AM
(hit F7 if you want to see exactly where it is and how big).
OK, another magic key I should try.

It lets you break bombable walls by shooting them? 
You erase them as if your shots are imaginary erasers of a level editor.

It DEFINITELY sounds like it shouldnt appear early on, that's for sure.
7 games in a row, got it on 2F every time. Very Easy and Easy, though. That may be the cause. I think I saw it on Normal once, too, but I only played one Normal game in these days. Also got it on 2F, I believe.
Title: Re: Hard on keyboard?
Post by: Draco18s on January 06, 2017, 11:54:22 AM
As for the "all in the wrist" thing, I just.... what?  I dont think Iv'e even seen that.  It lets you break bombable walls by shooting them?   Hm.  That sounds a bit much to me, I"m not sure.  It DEFINITELY sounds like it shouldnt appear early on, that's for sure.

Not bombable, breakable.  The shrubs, crystal reward pods, other temporary cover.  Your shots impact, completely destroy them, and (sometimes) keep going.
Title: Re: Hard on keyboard?
Post by: Pepisolo on January 06, 2017, 12:04:41 PM
Quote
Not bombable, breakable.  The shrubs, crystal reward pods, other temporary cover.  Your shots impact, completely destroy them, and (sometimes) keep going.

Actually, All in the Wrist was changed late in the Beta to also affect bombables in order to be more competitive with other perks of that tier (plus that was also it's original design). I can see why you thought it was just breakables, though, since it was like that for a long while. It's a level 4 perk that you will see 3/5 times on a run.

Currently up against: MapMaster, Resupply, Rally, and Keymaster. How does it look compared to those? Possibly is too overpowered, although I tend to not take it, myself.
Title: Re: Hard on keyboard?
Post by: ptarth on January 06, 2017, 01:07:41 PM
Note on boomable death effect.
Boomables don't have a death explosion. Normally you shoot them with missiles which have their own AOE effect, which provides a death effect. However, All in the Wrist makes your shots able to destroy them. Most (all) normal player shots also don't have a death effect, which results in the boomables dying without an effect and (sometimes) the shot also dying without an effect. I believe we can add a special boomable death effect, but since they are obstacles and not ships, I'm not quite sure.

This is also related to a similar problem with shot deaths. If you have a shot that destroys another shot, they both just cease to exist without an animation. This is unsatisfying. Unique shot deaths can be defined as a property of the shot entity (I think).

Title: Re: Hard on keyboard?
Post by: carldong on January 06, 2017, 06:58:49 PM
urrently up against: MapMaster, Resupply, Rally, and Keymaster. How does it look compared to those? Possibly is too overpowered, although I tend to not take it, myself.

I pretty much always choose that. Notice that shots also kills generator, which is a huge help because I hate trap rooms. I clear floors anyways so never map master; I don't remember what resupply and rally is, and I have more than enough keys with ability to destroy bombable blocks. I feel like that ability should appear later on.

And sometimes incinery(spell?) module make you automatically destroy any cover around, and now there is a purple bubble across the room? I actually saw this situation.
Title: Re: Hard on keyboard?
Post by: Frumple on January 07, 2017, 10:17:41 AM
Resupply and rally are start of level missile and health refill, respectively. Former's tempted me a few times, but I only very rarely have a mech that has enough health heal pickups don't top it off or near enough, which makes the latter pretty marginally useful... and if I do and I'm taking enough damage that I'd get much out of it, I'm probably dead even with the heal, ahaha.

Pretty uncommon to have enough capacity and be using enough missiles the situation isn't more or less the same, really. Just more common, heh. It'd be a lot more tempting if I already had in the wrist, actually, since I wouldn't be piecemealing out missiles to crack shard blocks and might be using them more actively in actual combat...