Author Topic: Hard on keyboard?  (Read 1301 times)

Offline carldong

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Hard on keyboard?
« on: December 14, 2016, 04:31:57 AM »
So, after beaten 7 floors on... Very Easy(Yeah, I am totally new to action rogues), I gave it a try on Hard. Well, it turns out(of course) that I have totally no clue on how to maneuver across a screen of blazing bullets. I do notice that, even with slow mode, a single keypress will move the mech quite some distance, and only 45 degrees. Just asking the hard core players, is it really possible to use keyboard on hard? Or am I just not fast enough?

I hope that I can turn on Hard pattern on Very easy, so I can at least see the full-powered AI.

Offline Misery

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Re: Hard on keyboard?
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2016, 05:52:41 AM »
The patterns and such certainly are not designed to be handled with a keyboard.  Particularly hard mode, which is my doing, and which was entirely tested on a controller.  The game is stuffed with bullet-hell elements at it's higher levels of challenge, and that genre is one of those where a controller of some sort is pretty much considered a requirement.  For a game with those elements, keyboard controls simply don't allow for fine-tuning your movement in the way that's necessary here.  At least, not in comparison to an actual controller.

Now, the 45-degrees bit, by which I assume you mean 8-direction movement (the only type that's possible with WASD controls), the game IS tested for that.  When using the controller to test and tune these things, I use the dpad, actually, not the analog stick, when it comes to movement.  It's an old habit: Most of the games that inspire much of the design in here actually ONLY use 8-way movement... no analog.  So the game ends up tested in that way when I'm working on it.


Now, does all of this mean that Hard mode is impossible with a keyboard/mouse?  Nah.  But it certainly limits you, yes. Even for someone who is very good at these, this would be true.  Even an analog stick will give you better control.  If you have a PS4 or Xbox 360/1/whatever controller, I'd recommend using those instead.  Also, regardless of wether or not you're using a controller or keyboard, look in the options menu and make sure that "shmup movement" is turned on.  This removes the bit of momentum that the mech otherwise experiences, causing it to stop dead in it's tracks.


Though, there's also the fact that you're leaping into Hard so early.  Hard mode is designed for those that have completely mastered Normal mode.

Offline carldong

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Re: Hard on keyboard?
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2016, 01:54:44 PM »
Well, looks like I should try to get a controller then. For Hard, I am just.. trying to see how "hard" it would be.

And keyboard/mouse in large battle requires a hell lot of multiprocessing.

Offline Logorouge

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Re: Hard on keyboard?
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2016, 05:42:51 PM »
I'll have to try playing with a controller too. It might make Hard runs a little less exhausting.
You'd think I would have tried switching after all this time...  :P

Offline Mánagarmr

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Re: Hard on keyboard?
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2016, 01:44:22 AM »
Well, looks like I should try to get a controller then. For Hard, I am just.. trying to see how "hard" it would be.

And keyboard/mouse in large battle requires a hell lot of multiprocessing.
As someone who has beaten the game multiple times on Normal...Hard is HARD. I have yet to beat it on hard. It's really freaking hard.
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Offline carldong

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Re: Hard on keyboard?
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2016, 02:51:26 AM »
Well, looks like I should try to get a controller then. For Hard, I am just.. trying to see how "hard" it would be.

And keyboard/mouse in large battle requires a hell lot of multiprocessing.
As someone who has beaten the game multiple times on Normal...Hard is HARD. I have yet to beat it on hard. It's really freaking hard.

I look forward to the day when Misery mode is finished :)

Offline Misery

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Re: Hard on keyboard?
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2016, 03:26:54 AM »
As someone who has beaten the game multiple times on Normal...Hard is HARD. I have yet to beat it on hard. It's really freaking hard.


Offline Mánagarmr

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Re: Hard on keyboard?
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2016, 04:25:08 AM »
I have a feeling that once I beat Hard and try Misery mode, I will find you and I will punch you.
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Offline Misery

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Re: Hard on keyboard?
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2016, 09:43:27 AM »
I really have to wonder how many times I've heard a line like that over the years.

Hm.  I'd probably never get an accurate count.

Offline carldong

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Re: Hard on keyboard?
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2016, 04:27:23 PM »
Just to ask, what exactly is a D-pad? The cross shaped keys on an XBox stick?

I don't have one at hand for now, but would it be easier to use that than an analog stick?

Hopefully I can beat Easy after switching to a better input device. Can't imagine that I can't clear Easy or pass 1st floor on Normal while I can streamroll Very Easy. Plus I just found that my laptop keyboard won't respond to extreme speed presses, and sometime responds twice. Ultrabooks are probably not designed for gaming.

Offline Monkooky

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Re: Hard on keyboard?
« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2016, 02:23:40 AM »
Dirty secret, I actually prefer Mouse+Keyboard. I've got trouble aiming properly with the controller.
With mouse+keyboard, it helps a ton to hold down ctrl when you're doing precision dodging- this'll slow you down to about half speed.

Offline ptarth

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Re: Hard on keyboard?
« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2016, 02:27:12 AM »
Ditto.
Note: This post contains content that is meant to be whimsical. Any belittlement or trivialization of complex issues is only intended to lighten the mood and does not reflect upon the merit of those positions.

Offline Mánagarmr

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Re: Hard on keyboard?
« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2016, 04:13:27 AM »
Just to ask, what exactly is a D-pad? The cross shaped keys on an XBox stick?

I don't have one at hand for now, but would it be easier to use that than an analog stick?

Hopefully I can beat Easy after switching to a better input device. Can't imagine that I can't clear Easy or pass 1st floor on Normal while I can streamroll Very Easy. Plus I just found that my laptop keyboard won't respond to extreme speed presses, and sometime responds twice. Ultrabooks are probably not designed for gaming.
D-pad = Directional Pad. So yes, it's the crosshaped thing. I'd say you're better off using analogue controls in this game (the being the stick) than direction digital controls (D-pad). If you must use digital input, use the keyboard. It's faster, more accurate and the D-pad on the Xbox controller sucks MASSIVE unicorn wang. It's awful, terrible, inaccurate and is a disgrace to controllers the world over. I don't think I've ever used a worse D-pad in my life, and yes, that includes the N64 which is renowned for being awful.

So either use the Xbox controller stick or use KB+M.
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Offline Misery

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Re: Hard on keyboard?
« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2016, 05:47:02 AM »
Just to ask, what exactly is a D-pad? The cross shaped keys on an XBox stick?

I don't have one at hand for now, but would it be easier to use that than an analog stick?

Hopefully I can beat Easy after switching to a better input device. Can't imagine that I can't clear Easy or pass 1st floor on Normal while I can streamroll Very Easy. Plus I just found that my laptop keyboard won't respond to extreme speed presses, and sometime responds twice. Ultrabooks are probably not designed for gaming.
D-pad = Directional Pad. So yes, it's the crosshaped thing. I'd say you're better off using analogue controls in this game (the being the stick) than direction digital controls (D-pad). If you must use digital input, use the keyboard. It's faster, more accurate and the D-pad on the Xbox controller sucks MASSIVE unicorn wang. It's awful, terrible, inaccurate and is a disgrace to controllers the world over. I don't think I've ever used a worse D-pad in my life, and yes, that includes the N64 which is renowned for being awful.

So either use the Xbox controller stick or use KB+M.

Ack, yes, I'd forgotten about that.  Normally dPads are muuuuuuuuch better than analogs for games like this.  Or fighting games.


....Unless you're using an Xbox controller of any sort.  Then it's about as accurate and coordinated as a drunken spider on a trampoline during an earthquake.  It is possible, and I'm not exaggerating here, for you to push UP on the dpad and have the game think you pushed DOWN.   It's THAT bad.  It really is a disgrace, yeah.   

I used to be stuck playing bullet-hell shmups with that little nightmare.  That I ever got anywhere in them is a wonder to me. 


If you have access to a PS3 or PS4 controller, though, just use those.  Those things work perfectly.  The PS4 one is what I use for this and basically everything else.  Dpad on that has no issues whatsoever.


....Really though, that Xbox controller.  What were they thinking?  And HOW has it not been fixed yet?  Do they really sit around and go "well nobody plays games that use the dpad anyway" or something?  I mean, it's been what, a freaking decade or so that they've had to fix it?  Ridiculous.

Granted, there ARE worse controllers out there.  But.... not by much.

Offline Mánagarmr

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Re: Hard on keyboard?
« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2016, 07:52:29 AM »
Case in point on Xbox 360 D-pad being arse: https://youtu.be/6mPZsOUp3V0?t=15m3s
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