Author Topic: Hard on keyboard?  (Read 2611 times)

Offline Logorouge

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Re: Hard on keyboard?
« Reply #30 on: December 18, 2016, 10:16:18 PM »
I see that there are "test room" somewhere, but I don't seem to find it. Where can I enable that thing? I would like to practise a bit on the Boss Fights.
For some reason, it's the Mod button on the main menu.

Offline carldong

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Re: Hard on keyboard?
« Reply #31 on: December 18, 2016, 10:32:50 PM »
I see that there are "test room" somewhere, but I don't seem to find it. Where can I enable that thing? I would like to practise a bit on the Boss Fights.
For some reason, it's the Mod button on the main menu.
Ahh, a strike on a Mod button looks like "disable all mods" and I didn't click it once.

Offline carldong

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Re: Hard on keyboard?
« Reply #32 on: December 18, 2016, 10:47:13 PM »
.....Well.  That probably doesn't help very much then, does it... 

Er... it's hard to outright explain how to deal with a bullet-hell pattern, really.  Well, first phase: Mostly use small, short movements to deal with it... just keep slowly shifting around, at your max range.  The shots that break into even more shots aren't random... that's all aimed shots; one shot from each little burst is always directly at you, the others are at angles away from you.  So where all the chaos goes is dependent on where you are.  Move too much and it'll just get wonkier.

Second phase:  Stay far away, and start doing circles around it.  You pretty much *have* to do this.  Clockwise or counter-clockwise, it doesn't matter, choose one and start circling.  You wont be able to turn around.  It constantly re-creates that circle of green shots:  never go inside of that, always stay outside.  With the way the pattern works, as you're constantly rotating around the outside of the arena, the boss will effectively throw out walls of shots in your way, slow down and pass through those, and keep going, still don't turn around (and certainly don't stop).  MOST of your movement here should be with the slowdown function used.  If you don't pass through those little walls quickly enough, they'll distort and hit you, so you may need a burst of slightly faster movement at times.

Hope that helps without being too confusing.

So, although I always die at the same spot trying to pass through the walls, but I see that keyboarding through is definitely possible. I really hoped that my field of view can be larger so that I can see whether I am actually doing any damage, and currently my visibility is quite assymmetric depends on where I am, because of the wide screen.

Offline Misery

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Re: Hard on keyboard?
« Reply #33 on: December 18, 2016, 11:11:28 PM »
Test rooms are found in the "mods" section on the main screen.

Offline carldong

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Re: Hard on keyboard?
« Reply #34 on: December 18, 2016, 11:49:47 PM »
Test rooms are found in the "mods" section on the main screen.

I just figured out. However, I think that icon really looks as if it means "disable all mods"...

Offline ptarth

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Re: Hard on keyboard?
« Reply #35 on: December 19, 2016, 12:27:38 AM »
There are several screen options that can change your field of view.
First, the obvious screen resolution options
Settings>Graphics>Windowed Mode Settings (set to your size) for Windowed
Settings>Graphics>Fullscreen Settings (set to your size and check the use Fullscreen option) for Fullscreen

Also though, there is:
Settings>Graphics>Screen Scale (bar on the left, I set this to 1)
Settings>Graphics>Zoom (bar on the bottom right, I set this to 0.64)

If you mess up your settings and it doesn't want to load or let you revert, you'll need to delete the configuration files

...Steam...\Starward Rogue\RuntimeData\settings.bak
...Steam...\Starward Rogue\RuntimeData\settings.dat

The Mod icon is supposed to be the head of a hammer and a pen I believe. A crest of arms of sorts.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2016, 12:29:56 AM by ptarth »
Note: This post contains content that is meant to be whimsical. Any belittlement or trivialization of complex issues is only intended to lighten the mood and does not reflect upon the merit of those positions.

Offline carldong

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Re: Hard on keyboard?
« Reply #36 on: January 05, 2017, 08:17:59 AM »
Just got a PS4 stick because I am blaming the joystick for my inability to beat Normal.

Simply by reading the previous sentence you know how it actually goes. I don't know how you guys are holding a joystick, but I find it near impossible to press the D-pad quick enough to respond, except moving horizontally or vertically. For the analog stick, it is very good except when I need to micro in opposite directions, where I sometimes accidentally move at the wrong direction. Then I hope I can actuallly use the analog stick as analog stick, where it is not "on/off" type of control.

Do you expert D-pad users press the buttons with your thumb? Or do you use some fancy way to hold the stick, or somehow have four thumbs?

OK, I hope Misery can answer this question... You said you tested the game using D-pad, so I assume you can clear Misery Mode perfectly with it, right?

Offline Logorouge

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Re: Hard on keyboard?
« Reply #37 on: January 05, 2017, 10:41:46 AM »
OK, I hope Misery can answer this question... You said you tested the game using D-pad, so I assume you can clear Misery Mode perfectly with it, right?
But Misery mode isn't ready yet. Beating the placeholder wouldn't be much of an indication (although it would still be quite the feat).

Offline Misery

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Re: Hard on keyboard?
« Reply #38 on: January 05, 2017, 09:39:48 PM »
OK, I hope Misery can answer this question... You said you tested the game using D-pad, so I assume you can clear Misery Mode perfectly with it, right?

I can clear anything, really.  The game to me isnt particularly hard; I'm used to the really nasty bullet-hell games (not Touhou, I mean nastier). 

Yes I'm aware of how braggy that sounds.  Just being honest though.  ANd yes, that's with the d-pad.  Any bullet-hell game, or Isaac-like thing, I'll always use a dpad as long as it's supported.  And sometimes if it isnt I'll force it.

This though is also why I get the difficulty wrong sometimes and need to tone it down in this game.  If we patch it and you find that something is WAY too hard for the difficulty level it's on, that's why, since I find most things a bit easy so it's hard for me to tell if I've gone overboard.   Granted, there are some enemies that are specifically meant to be nastier than most things.


Anyway, misery mode isnt ready yet.  That's currently being worked on.  Bloody difficult to make, I'll say that.  Hard mode was tough enough to set up.


Now for the problem you mentioned, yes, generally you're supposed to use your thumb on a dpad... I cant even imagine doing otherwise. 

I'd be interested to see how exactly you're holding and using the thing.  Are you actually taking your thumb off of the dpad entirely when you go to switch directions?  If so, dont do that.   Just sorta roll/shift it.... you should never be lifting off of the thing.  It sounds mostly like you just arent used to the thing, that's all.  Which makes sense... alot of games these days simply dont use the thing.  Players get used to analog sticks.

Offline carldong

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Re: Hard on keyboard?
« Reply #39 on: January 05, 2017, 11:50:26 PM »
Just sorta roll/shift it.
OK, maybe it just takes some practise. Do you aim with analog, then?

yes, generally you're supposed to use your thumb on a dpad... I cant even imagine doing otherwis
I see some people use both their thumb and curled index finger(with the joint, maybe?). Those are PSP players, though, to simultaneously use analog and D-pad.

Oooh, and I just figured out what "The Creator" is, last night. Double enemies? Stats up? Hard pattern on Normal? Normal pattern on Very Easy? And 3 Health in an entire floor(that might just be RNG but I find it wayyyy to few)? Even with the additional EXP(spent on DMG bonus) factored in, the enemies have quite hefty HP.

And just another thing to notice. Impassable wall + Narrow Corridor + Wall-penetrating enemies(Spider, the thing with crossing "snakes", the something-turret(not blaze cannon)) is a very very difficult combo(for me) because I can't shoot at those nasty enemies, but they block my way. And worse, missiles don't seem to clear the cross-snaky thing.

And I get "All in the wrist" every single run. That is not intended, right? It is the thing that makes your normal shots clear missile blocks. Yes, I like it, but it feels that it is intended to be much rarer, but I got that in my previous 5 runs, all as an early Floor 2 perk. I used Deep Blue, Humble, and Treasure Hunter.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2017, 11:53:50 PM by carldong »

Offline Misery

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Re: Hard on keyboard?
« Reply #40 on: January 06, 2017, 03:30:37 AM »
I aim with analog sometimes, other times I'll use the face buttons.  In the case of actual aiming it's usually better to go with analog technically.  8-way MOVEMENT with the dpad works very well, but 8-way AIMING is a bit restrictive (though not that much).  But I'll sometimes pick one or the other at random.  Dont know why.  Either is viable in the end though.


As for the bit wit the PSP, yeah, I've done that too.  Usually when playing Monster Hunter.  It was a HUGE complaint with that stupid thing, because for games like that there's no other way at all to control both character and camera at the same time.  The normal 3DS has the very same issue, and it's just as dumb on there.  There's a reason why controllers have more than 1 analog stick, really....

When it comes to the spiders and such, the best advice is just "take it slow".  This is important for most restrictive attack patterns.  The faster you move in a game like this, the more likely you are to get hit.  Make careful movements using the slowdown button, and stop moving entirely when needed.  And remember that your hitbox is smaller than it looks (hit F7 if you want to see exactly where it is and how big).  Enemies that have the ability to pierce walls, well, the reason it gives you trouble is indeed the entire reason they have that ability, heh.

As for the "all in the wrist" thing, I just.... what?  I dont think Iv'e even seen that.  It lets you break bombable walls by shooting them?   Hm.  That sounds a bit much to me, I"m not sure.  It DEFINITELY sounds like it shouldnt appear early on, that's for sure.

Yeah, you'd think I'd know this stuff already, but that'd make too much sense.

Offline carldong

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Re: Hard on keyboard?
« Reply #41 on: January 06, 2017, 08:40:05 AM »
(hit F7 if you want to see exactly where it is and how big).
OK, another magic key I should try.

It lets you break bombable walls by shooting them? 
You erase them as if your shots are imaginary erasers of a level editor.

It DEFINITELY sounds like it shouldnt appear early on, that's for sure.
7 games in a row, got it on 2F every time. Very Easy and Easy, though. That may be the cause. I think I saw it on Normal once, too, but I only played one Normal game in these days. Also got it on 2F, I believe.

Offline Draco18s

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Re: Hard on keyboard?
« Reply #42 on: January 06, 2017, 11:54:22 AM »
As for the "all in the wrist" thing, I just.... what?  I dont think Iv'e even seen that.  It lets you break bombable walls by shooting them?   Hm.  That sounds a bit much to me, I"m not sure.  It DEFINITELY sounds like it shouldnt appear early on, that's for sure.

Not bombable, breakable.  The shrubs, crystal reward pods, other temporary cover.  Your shots impact, completely destroy them, and (sometimes) keep going.

Offline Pepisolo

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Re: Hard on keyboard?
« Reply #43 on: January 06, 2017, 12:04:41 PM »
Quote
Not bombable, breakable.  The shrubs, crystal reward pods, other temporary cover.  Your shots impact, completely destroy them, and (sometimes) keep going.

Actually, All in the Wrist was changed late in the Beta to also affect bombables in order to be more competitive with other perks of that tier (plus that was also it's original design). I can see why you thought it was just breakables, though, since it was like that for a long while. It's a level 4 perk that you will see 3/5 times on a run.

Currently up against: MapMaster, Resupply, Rally, and Keymaster. How does it look compared to those? Possibly is too overpowered, although I tend to not take it, myself.

Offline ptarth

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Re: Hard on keyboard?
« Reply #44 on: January 06, 2017, 01:07:41 PM »
Note on boomable death effect.
Boomables don't have a death explosion. Normally you shoot them with missiles which have their own AOE effect, which provides a death effect. However, All in the Wrist makes your shots able to destroy them. Most (all) normal player shots also don't have a death effect, which results in the boomables dying without an effect and (sometimes) the shot also dying without an effect. I believe we can add a special boomable death effect, but since they are obstacles and not ships, I'm not quite sure.

This is also related to a similar problem with shot deaths. If you have a shot that destroys another shot, they both just cease to exist without an animation. This is unsatisfying. Unique shot deaths can be defined as a property of the shot entity (I think).

Note: This post contains content that is meant to be whimsical. Any belittlement or trivialization of complex issues is only intended to lighten the mood and does not reflect upon the merit of those positions.