Author Topic: Finally have beaten the Warden!  (Read 1660 times)

Offline crazyroosterman

  • Master Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,558
  • Cluck.
Re: Finally have beaten the Warden!
« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2016, 11:20:58 PM »
hey so I just beat the warden and holy shit that was intense my heart was pounding by the end of it.
c.r

Offline Misery

  • Global Moderator
  • Core Member Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,099
Re: Finally have beaten the Warden!
« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2016, 10:09:08 AM »
Okay, who buffed the Warden? Second time I ran across him and his second phase completely murdered me. Way too many shots with too few gaps xD

Hasnt been buffed, heh.  What's happening is you're moving too much.  The pattern is designed to attack the player specifically by getting them to panic-dodge.  The more you move around, the more distorted the pattern gets.  Move around too much and it becomes an impossible wall.  Take it super slow, and it's probably the easiest pattern he has.

Now if you think THAT is hard though, just wait'll you meet Terminus and his little friends.  *evil cackle*


It was however only thanks to the Backfire exploit  :P
I started with the Flame tank Mech and got somwhere towards the end the railgun (maingun, not secondary) which made him really easy.
I also picked upthe thing that gives you 50% more damage but removes criticals (forgot the name). I like to rely on steady damage output and not on luck (the reason why I hate isaac but love this game).
The damage output at the end was so high, I killed the warden in a few shots in ech of his stages. I wouldn't say it was too easy because he still gave me a challenge but he is a lot easier when you rely more on offense instead of defense. The only thing you want to have is at least a single basic drone that blocks bullets. makes his thiird stage easier.
Congrats!
I yet have to vet see it for the first time :-\.
Well I guess that is the price for me insisting on doing it at least on Normal ;D.

I also prefer normal. I started super easy once and was disgussted immideatly how easy it was. No offense for the game makers, I guess some people just need these baby things on your feet, but I found myself kinda offended how easy it was. I only finished one room and directly abandoned the run.
I haven't seen easy but I guess it's not that bad.

I think super easy is okay for children or people that don't have any clue what the game is about but for everythign else it just offends tehir skills.
However, i bet Misery says the same for Normal, so who am I to say somethign like that?


Sadly, that sort of difficulty level is an absolute and total necessity nowadays.  There's no way the game could get away without having that.  AAA games in particular have taught alot of players to just expect wins to be handed to them, so when they run into REAL difficulty, they're put off by it badly.  Thus.... the easy modes.  Yes, I hate them too.  Heck, I did not even once test them; this is the reason for the original set of bugs the Warden had.  I hadnt spotted the issue that caused him to work just fine in normal, but to get all weird in easy/very easy. 



All that said, I'm still kinda surprised everyone is having so much trouble with this boss.  What you're meeting on Normal is actually the toned-down version of it.  The Hard mode one originally WAS the Normal version.   I had thought it was fine, but I admit I'm not the best judge of this...

Offline Garthor

  • Newbie Mark III
  • *
  • Posts: 32
Re: Finally have beaten the Warden!
« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2016, 09:30:02 PM »
Sadly, that sort of difficulty level is an absolute and total necessity nowadays.  There's no way the game could get away without having that.  AAA games in particular have taught alot of players to just expect wins to be handed to them, so when they run into REAL difficulty, they're put off by it badly.  Thus.... the easy modes.  Yes, I hate them too.  Heck, I did not even once test them; this is the reason for the original set of bugs the Warden had.  I hadnt spotted the issue that caused him to work just fine in normal, but to get all weird in easy/very easy.

Or maybe they're a difficulty level for people who have never played a game like this before, young children, older people who don't have the reaction speeds they used to, people who actually just want to experience a game's story without having to stress over the difficulty, or people who are just REAL BAD at video games.  Video games becoming more popular amongst people who previously wouldn't have played them is something to be celebrated, not derided.

Offline Misery

  • Global Moderator
  • Core Member Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,099
Re: Finally have beaten the Warden!
« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2016, 09:55:01 PM »
Sadly, that sort of difficulty level is an absolute and total necessity nowadays.  There's no way the game could get away without having that.  AAA games in particular have taught alot of players to just expect wins to be handed to them, so when they run into REAL difficulty, they're put off by it badly.  Thus.... the easy modes.  Yes, I hate them too.  Heck, I did not even once test them; this is the reason for the original set of bugs the Warden had.  I hadnt spotted the issue that caused him to work just fine in normal, but to get all weird in easy/very easy.

Or maybe they're a difficulty level for people who have never played a game like this before, young children, older people who don't have the reaction speeds they used to, people who actually just want to experience a game's story without having to stress over the difficulty, or people who are just REAL BAD at video games.  Video games becoming more popular amongst people who previously wouldn't have played them is something to be celebrated, not derided.

I know.   But this isnt a casual game in any respect; being labelled "bullet hell" *and* "roguelike / roguelite" immediately connects it with two of the hardest genres that exist.  By default, this type of game is difficult.  And that's their normal/easy difficulty. 

Particularly for a bullet-hell type thing, Normal on it's own is *very* tame in most places.  The Warden is where it starts to heat up a bit, and Terminus is the one that really pushes it, at least as far as that goes.  Not to mention the fact that you can take a great many hits before going down; all you have to do is spend some time exploring each floor and gaining items and EXP. 

Besides, I didn't mean it just in reference to THIS game.  It's more a blanket statement about the current state of the industry, and it's my genuine opinion.  Alot of games like this truly arent all that hard.  Alot of games, way back when, that really were designed for everyone (as in, they werent specifically made to be hard) were about as difficult as this is.  But the AAA side of things hadnt exploded yet, and hadnt lowered the bar yet; so players werent constantly trained to just EXPECT victory.  They would play the games, get a bit of practice, and after a time, beat them.  With many games, it really didn't take all that long even just for a more casual player.  And many of those are either as tough as this one on it's base or slightly lower difficulty, or they can be a little tougher (Hard mode in this game though IS quite a spike).

But major games in particular have just been handing out victories and such left and right that even those that consider themselves "hardcore" nowadays just cant deal with something like this anymore (and this, to me, is where the problem is).  Give them an older game on the NES or SNES, and it'll tear their faces off and beat them over the head with it.  The "major" games have lowered the bar SO much that you have to actually SEARCH for games that have something resembling actual challenge in them.  The closest that that side of the industry gets to this is probably the Souls games.  Aside from that?  Infinite continues, regenerating health, very slow enemies, easy bosses that jump up and down (slowly) and scream "HEY LOOK RIGHT HERE THIS IS MY WEAK SPOT!!! Okay I'm gonna stand still for 10 full seconds so you can shoot it for a bit", and so on.  AAA developers in particular dont ACTUALLY want the player to be able to lose; they might not complete the all-important story (ugh), might not feel like winners, and might not buy the next 20 sequels!

And that's just with single-player stuff.... I'm not even going to go into what happens when a player trained to expect victory goes into COMPETITVE gaming.  I'll just say.... I dont play games against friends much anymore.  It gives them ragequit moments, and gives me boredom.

I'm not saying that there shouldnt be easier games and such for different people.   But right now, on that side of the industry?  They're *all* easy.  Usually REALLY easy.  With, again, the Souls games being pretty much the only exception.

But that's all just me.  I know many dont agree with that... which is too bad, but fine.  But that's why I stick to indie games these days (because I aint getting anything worthwhile out of the big ones), and also why I tend to keep to myself most of the time; my friends are all into gaming, but I pretty much *never* discuss gaming with them.  Talk about a cure for insomnia...     This one forum is pretty much about as much gaming discussion as I get.   This isnt likely to change anytime remotely soon.

Offline Cinth

  • Core Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,527
  • Resident Zombie
Re: Finally have beaten the Warden!
« Reply #19 on: January 29, 2016, 10:09:34 PM »
I'm just going to say this.  I don't play any game that this title has been likened to, nor anything in their related genres.  It's not something I generally play at all.  That being said, I've been gaming for somewhere around 30 years.  Starward isn't a hard game, it's a challenging one.  For those who can't see the difference in that, Dark Souls was freaking HARD.  I bought that, played it, said nope several times over.  Hard makes you scream at the game over everything.  Here, things can get a bit over the top, but rng or not understanding patterns can put you in those spots.  I'm not screaming at the game for anything (though I do talk to those responsible for something I feel is off).

After all that, I can play the game just fine.  Warden has yet to be an easy kill.  You still have to dance with him to win against him.  Blood Reaper is another one that got complained about and is a reasonable challenge (now that it's been fixed).  Hard and Misery modes might actually be HARD but I haven't felt like I've gotten there yet.  I may never get there, but that's ok since the challenge I get from normal is good. 

My two cents, for what it's worth.  Carry on folks ;)
Quote from: keith.lamothe
Opened your save. My computer wept. Switched to the ST planet and ship icons filled my screen, so I zoomed out. Game told me that it _was_ totally zoomed out. You could seriously walk from one end of the inner grav well to the other without getting your feet cold.

Offline Misery

  • Global Moderator
  • Core Member Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,099
Re: Finally have beaten the Warden!
« Reply #20 on: January 30, 2016, 12:39:32 PM »
I swear I must be the only one that doesnt think the Souls games are hard.

They always remind me of the first Castlevania:  slow as a brick in sludge, and more based on memorization than anything else.  Though to be fair, I think basically everything is slow, but still, those are EXTRA slow.

Part of why I eventually lost interest in the series.  Nowadays it's just... feh.  Cant be bothered.

Offline Cinth

  • Core Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,527
  • Resident Zombie
Re: Finally have beaten the Warden!
« Reply #21 on: January 30, 2016, 12:48:40 PM »
I'm sure if I took the time to memorize everything, it wouldn't have been so bad.  I just couldn't be bothered.  I can't say I enjoyed it t all.
Quote from: keith.lamothe
Opened your save. My computer wept. Switched to the ST planet and ship icons filled my screen, so I zoomed out. Game told me that it _was_ totally zoomed out. You could seriously walk from one end of the inner grav well to the other without getting your feet cold.

Offline Misery

  • Global Moderator
  • Core Member Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,099
Re: Finally have beaten the Warden!
« Reply #22 on: January 30, 2016, 01:58:51 PM »
Yeah, I didn't enjoy it much either.  Particularly the annoying PvP stuff.  That always got old really fast. Dodge roll! Dodge roll! Dodge roll!  Sigh...

Offline crazyroosterman

  • Master Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,558
  • Cluck.
Re: Finally have beaten the Warden!
« Reply #23 on: January 30, 2016, 02:09:10 PM »
yea pretty much agree with misery I haven't played any of the souls series(apart form dark souls 1 which I never got round to finishing) but I watch a couple of you tubers who are big into that series and you'd be amazed how incredibly easy they make those games look. (the games incredibly easy any way if you go the full magic souls build and one shot everything)
c.r

Offline Pepisolo

  • Global Moderator
  • Master Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,481
Re: Finally have beaten the Warden!
« Reply #24 on: January 30, 2016, 03:58:40 PM »
Quote
I swear I must be the only one that doesnt think the Souls games are hard.

I think that the difficulty of the games is exaggerated a bit. For me it has a nice difficulty level, challenging, but not crazy hard.

Offline Rujasu

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 59
Re: Finally have beaten the Warden!
« Reply #25 on: January 30, 2016, 08:04:53 PM »
It's more a marketing schtick than anything. They're very fair games, but don't spoon feed you success.

Offline TheVampire100

  • Master Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,352
  • Ordinary Vampire
Re: Finally have beaten the Warden!
« Reply #26 on: January 30, 2016, 09:38:40 PM »
I think it's always depending on the point of view.
Dark Souls (or the Souls games in general) are hard. Don't confuse hard with unfair. Unfair means, that the game has artificial difficulty (sections that are abnormal hard because of unforeseen events or challenges where the player don't have control)l. Hard means that you will see the game over/death screen more often as in usual games. In Dark Souls death is part of the game. If you die, you respawn anyway.
Dark Souls is definitely harder than, let's say, Skyrim. I died les in Skyrim as in Dark Souls. But, if you are prepared, you can beat both games, they just need different amounts of preparation.
Dark Souls challenges the player with surprising difficulty spikes, sudden traps and other stuff but you can avoid that if you are prepared.
Once you know hwta happens, Dark Souls get significant easier.

Of course it depends who plays. Some players are better in thinking, some are better in dodging stuff, some can better aim. I'm terrible at dodging, my aim is rather mediocore and I don't have the reflexes to react quickly to a situation that a game throws at me.
However, I am very good at tactics and strategies, in eevry game that offers something liek this, I shine. People say that Darkest Dungeon is unfair difficult and hard. I don't think the same.
every time when I play Sanctum with friends, I'm the one who plans the defenses. Everyone is good at something.

Offline TheVampire100

  • Master Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,352
  • Ordinary Vampire
Re: Finally have beaten the Warden!
« Reply #27 on: January 30, 2016, 11:10:52 PM »
Defeated the Warden, this time for real. Had a little luck with the drops, I got a seconary weapons that attracts enemy bullets with magnetic force, made the last stage of the warden fairly easy.
had also railgun (main gun), some drones and a lot of damage upgrades. Was a really cool run.


Offline NichG

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 125
Re: Finally have beaten the Warden!
« Reply #28 on: January 31, 2016, 05:53:06 AM »
I just now finished my first full-size run, and I found Terminus easier than the Warden, but that was a combination of three things. One: playing on Easy. Two: Redshift. Three: Blade attachment

It seems that at least on Easy, you can pretty easily stun-lock a lot of Terminus' patterns by destroying the leading bullet that starts the pattern. So for his last three stages, I could basically just camp in front of him and occasionally step back to get the blade timing right.

Before this last run I was really meh about the blade attachment, but now that I know it deletes bullets in the sweep I'm kinda in awe of it.

Offline Vacuity

  • Full Member Mark II
  • ***
  • Posts: 174
Re: Finally have beaten the Warden!
« Reply #29 on: January 31, 2016, 06:39:23 AM »
Before this last run I was really meh about the blade attachment, but now that I know it deletes bullets in the sweep I'm kinda in awe of it.
Wait.  What?!?  It does?  I've turned it down several times in favour of the attachment I already had each time, but if that's true it makes it awesome.