Energy, shields, and basic loot

[Ayrix]

I can only take this response to mean that running through caltrops in empty rooms is a common problem. There is only 1 mech that has more than 1 shield to start, and only 2 ways to get +1 shield: The level-up perk and the no shield for one floor challenge. So most people have only 1 shield for most of their run, and under this proposal would still get that one shield back after each room they clear. The only way they get hurt is if they are taking damage in empty rooms.

Anyway, I would actually be surprised if it is normal rooms that are the barrier to most players as opposed to bosses, where this change would have no impact. I don't know about anyone else, but I find the rooms vastly easier than Isaac, but bosses much harder.

*raises hand as one of those guys*
Find bosses often near trivial, but caltrops kill me. Especially the mazes of them you have to navigate in slow mode.

Also most mini-bosses are harder than the bosses, but have no health. (need their movement/bullet speeds nerfing, and HP increases?)

[Misery]

I can only take this response to mean that running through caltrops in empty rooms is a common problem. There is only 1 mech that has more than 1 shield to start, and only 2 ways to get +1 shield: The level-up perk and the no shield for one floor challenge. So most people have only 1 shield for most of their run, and under this proposal would still get that one shield back after each room they clear. The only way they get hurt is if they are taking damage in empty rooms.

Anyway, I would actually be surprised if it is normal rooms that are the barrier to most players as opposed to bosses, where this change would have no impact. I don't know about anyone else, but I find the rooms vastly easier than Isaac, but bosses much harder.

*raises hand as one of those guys*
Find bosses often near trivial, but caltrops kill me. Especially the mazes of them you have to navigate in slow mode.

Also most mini-bosses are harder than the bosses, but have no health. (need their movement/bullet speeds nerfing, and HP increases?)

For the time being, I dont think the minibosses need changing.  Honestly I think this is the first time I've heard someone say that they're harder than the actual bosses.  I know I'm not the best judge of difficulty here, since as far as I'm concerned, basically everything is easy, but still, the minibosses are mostly free kills.  Arcoris manages to smack me in the face with a quick bolt every now and then, but the others.... I actually think they need a buff.  I cant remember the last time I took a hit from any of them.    You should be using your sprint button during these fights.   


On a total side note, that item that gives you +4 HP so long as you dont use missiles..... yyyyyyep, can die from that even if you've ended the floor, despite what it says.  That.... might be an issue... ugh.   That thing might need a couple of small changes actually.

Guardian blade (I think that's what it's called) REALLY needs a nerf too.  Or should be the sort of item that is very rare (appearing in the second type of secret room only, perhaps). And the basic drones need to cost more.  Double, I'd say.   Bullet-cancelling items are a tad overly strong right now and it's too easy to get alot of them. 

[Hearteater]

Yeah, blade module got me my first win . Seriously OP. On a side note, Blade Module hits shop keepers, and in some cases they are nearly in range the instant you walk into the room. Bad times.

[crazyroosterman]

should blade module as well as being persifick to a certain floor perhaps be a sacrifice item? I cant remember the last time I used an item from the hss at early game I don't like losing 5 health on usual and at later game there simply not use full to me.

[Misery]

should blade module as well as being persifick to a certain floor perhaps be a sacrifice item? I cant remember the last time I used an item from the hss at early game I don't like losing 5 health on usual and at later game there simply not use full to me.

Yeah, I've had that thought, it maybe should be a sacrifice item.  It's certainly strong enough to be one.

Something's going to be done about it, anyway.  I just have to figure out exactly what.  I'll come up with something.  Mad science experiments must be done first. 

[crazyroosterman]

should blade module as well as being persifick to a certain floor perhaps be a sacrifice item? I cant remember the last time I used an item from the hss at early game I don't like losing 5 health on usual and at later game there simply not use full to me.

Yeah, I've had that thought, it maybe should be a sacrifice item.  It's certainly strong enough to be one.

Something's going to be done about it, anyway.  I just have to figure out exactly what.  I'll come up with something.  Mad science experiments must be done first.

yea if I came across that in a sr id certainly be the first sacrifice item in ages id actually consider buying.

[Misery]

Hm, you're not finding any of the other things in there to be useful at all?

[ptarth]

Were the sacrifice items fixed so that they do not kill you if it would drop you to negative current health but still positive maximum health?

Some of the sacrifice items make the game harder, would it be appropriate to have those items increase health instead of reduce health?

Were "until hit" items given text descriptions that specifies ANY damage, shield, hull, or whatever?

Likewise, the takes energy damage instead of damage item, it should probably talk about it blocking hull damage only and the conversion rate of energy per hull.

[Hearteater]

I just look in sacrifice shops for the heck of it, but basically never buy anything. The worst are the "until you get hit" abilities. I pay permanent health for a temporary ability. That silly infinite energy one I know by sight. Always, until Isaac, I ignore all the map/reveal items as then generally don't matter. I find almost all my secret/sac rooms collecting health shards (and I generally would rather the shard than a sacrifice room). So basically I find everything myself 4 out 5 times, and nothing is threatening enough that I need to rush a storage room or shop to hope for something to let me survive the floor.

[crazyroosterman]

Hm, you're not finding any of the other things in there to be useful at all?

its not really to do with use full ness its more to do with enthusiasm for me generally speaking at the point in the game were it might actually be worth it for me(around mid before I fight the warden) I simply never want anything I find in those rooms on the contrary when ever I go into drone rooms I generally try to buy everything in there(apart from the tag team I don't like that one) for some reason I really enjoy having lots of drones.

[Timerlane]

I can only take this response to mean that running through caltrops in empty rooms is a common problem. There is only 1 mech that has more than 1 shield to start, and only 2 ways to get +1 shield: The level-up perk and the no shield for one floor challenge. So most people have only 1 shield for most of their run, and under this proposal would still get that one shield back after each room they clear. The only way they get hurt is if they are taking damage in empty rooms.

There are completely-surrounded chests and/or items in some of those caltrops-maze rooms. One can completely avoid permanent damage by exiting and re-entering the room to reset one's shields and relying on the 'mercy invincibility' period to get back out of the gap(chests would require one to do this twice, as the chest takes a second to open and deploy its loot).

[Misery]

Were the sacrifice items fixed so that they do not kill you if it would drop you to negative current health but still positive maximum health?

Some of the sacrifice items make the game harder, would it be appropriate to have those items increase health instead of reduce health?

Were "until hit" items given text descriptions that specifies ANY damage, shield, hull, or whatever?

Likewise, the takes energy damage instead of damage item, it should probably talk about it blocking hull damage only and the conversion rate of energy per hull.

Hm, I'm not sure about that bit with the sacrifice rooms killing you; if that's not been put on Mantis, it probably needs to be.




Anyway, as items go, I'm going to start really digging into these later tonight and making changes and fixing what needs fixing.  I do intend on dealing with some of the descriptions too as I find them (some things still dont HAVE one, like "masochism"). The blade thing, the absurd machine gun the green mech starts with, and certain sacrifice room items are first on the list.

Some consumables may also get slightly increased durations, or things like that.  I'd like to see consumables become more desirable than they are right now.

If anyone has comments on any specific items, anything that seems particularly imbalanced or out of whack, now's a great time to bring it up!

[Captain Jack]

Make every option smaller, like half its size.

Can't think of anything else off the top of my head. Toss me any descriptions you aren't sure about, I have some free time tonight.

[Misery]

Anyway, as items go, I'm going to start really digging into these later tonight and making changes and fixing what needs fixing.  I do intend on dealing with some of the descriptions too as I find them (some things still dont HAVE one, like "masochism"). The blade thing, the absurd machine gun the green mech starts with, and certain sacrifice room items are first on the list.

I just realized how I phrased this.  What I meant for the blade and the stuff after that was that they're on the list for balance changes, not the list for descriptions.  Note to self, pay attention when typing.

Make every option smaller, like half its size.

Can't think of anything else off the top of my head. Toss me any descriptions you aren't sure about, I have some free time tonight.

Allright, that sounds better than me trying to think up how to write them out.  There's a bunch that are outright missing descriptions and then some that just plain arent accurate. 

[Rythe]

Don't nerf the STG-4377 too much (or at all)! D:

It's one of the few secondary weapons I look forward to finding with the white gloss mech. >.<

Personally, I'd prefer the STG-4377 to stay out there as is and just swap the starting weapons on the green envy and possibly red shift to something else.