Author Topic: Asking for help about some minibosses and cursed rooms  (Read 812 times)

Offline carldong

  • Full Member Mark II
  • ***
  • Posts: 191
Asking for help about some minibosses and cursed rooms
« on: April 08, 2017, 09:49:58 PM »
Um. Again I am asking for some help on minibosses.

FIrst, Loco. Yes, I asked about this one before... But I still can't beat it with basic primary, like Minigun. The only way I could defeat it is to spam a huge burst damage on it, because I can't find a reliable way to dodge both its body and its shots. As advised, I stand mostly in the center, but the hard part is... If I move slowly, I can't avoid the boss. If I dash, I hit bullets. Are there more reliable ways to defeat it? Or, put in another word, if I don't shoot it, is there a reliable way to survive indefinitely?

Second, Paragon. Again, I can only defeat this miniboss with an alpha strike of everything I have. All three stages are quite difficult, but I can see that the first two stages are mostly the fault of my slow reflex. However, the third stage... I simply can't see how to get through a seamless wall of bullets fired randomly. If the boss starts firing away from me, that is fortunate and I can just keep myself safe. However, if it starts firing in my direction... In less than a second I would have to (a) Retreat to slide through the holes and thus out of range myself. (b) Fire a missile and hopefully create a large enough gap. (c) Fire everything I have and hopefully kill it before its shots hit me. (d) Dash through the bullets, and use the invincible period to kill it. Am I missing something? The last stage seems to be just random

As you see, my problem here is generally that I can't survive indefinitely under these bosses, which is quite an important point because they appear on first floor, possibly before I get any decent DPS upgrades. I have figured out the counters to all other minibosses's (that I can think of now) patterns, but just not these two.

And for cursed rooms... I think they are supposed to be hard (and honestly I don't think they are rewarding), so I generally don't touch them unless one blocks my way toward floor boss. There was a particular one that fires rings of orange fireballs outward and retracts them back at very high speed, which instantly drained my 11 HP on that run. I don't remember the name because I was too concentrated, bur the gaps between fireballs are quite small, probably narrower than my mech. I didn't quite see how to beat it (of course, I will try a bit in training room).

If you think telling me how to beat cursed room will be spoiler, then I will just try to figure it out. Yeah, my heart skips every time when I see a cursed room in my way. For me, it generally spells doom to that run.

Offline Misery

  • Global Moderator
  • Core Member Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,030
Re: Asking for help about some minibosses and cursed rooms
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2017, 11:51:19 PM »
Loco:  Actually, try not to move all that much when dealing with that thing.  It's a lot like many things in the game where the more you panic and the more wild your movements, the worse off you're going to be.   That being said, it's a lot different than many other things in the game of that size, since it's constant position changing can make things confusing. 

Paragon:  During it's berserk attack (the final one), just get as far away as possible.  Watch it's health bar:  It's sort of a self-destruct sequence, you don't have to even attack the thing during this part.  For the earlier phases though, like Loco try not to get too bonkers with movement; unlike Loco, this guy can force it by using those homing missiles.  Mostly, just pay attention to the timing on the huge beam it fires.  Like almost everything in the game, the beam has a very specific timer that determines when it fires.  If you get used to the timing, it's much easier.


Cursed rooms:  Ahh... there are no real tips to deal with these.  They tend to be extremely straightforward in terms of how they function, and what you're supposed to do.  The one with the concentric circles, for instance, only practice is going to get you through that.  Remember though that the game uses bullet-hell elements:  Your hitbox is quite a bit smaller than the size of the mech itself.  It's right in the center of the head.  If you want to see exactly where that hitbox is (and the hitboxes of everything else) just hit F7.   When dealing with dense attacks like that though (anything you need to "squeeze" through to dodge) it's very important to use the slow-movement buttons to keep precise control.   Cursed rooms are definitely meant to be more dangerous than minibosses, though.   

Offline carldong

  • Full Member Mark II
  • ***
  • Posts: 191
Re: Asking for help about some minibosses and cursed rooms
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2017, 12:55:17 AM »
It's sort of a self-destruct sequence
Oh WOW! Never found that out... Since I had no attention at all to trace the health bar. That would make things significantly easier. Timing wise, I sort of know it, I just haven't get used to it.

Loco... Next time I will try to move more slowly. And of course, practice a bit in training rooms.

Offline zharmad

  • Hero Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,066
Re: Asking for help about some minibosses and cursed rooms
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2017, 06:03:14 PM »
Loco: the glass versus tile floor design tells you where the Loco will and will not go, at least for as long as I've ever seen it alive - it always died before it managed to leave its tracks. So you should be able to move around on - the glass?, - and dodge just the bullets. You don't have to chase it everywhere, it'll just come back to you along its movement pattern.

Paragon: IIRC like the Arctoris, their shots are affected by movement direction. The third stage is indeed not easy if you want to speed up the death, I suppose you can practice dashing around a half-circle, and if you get hit by the stray missile that's just ill-luck.

With both of them, it might be easier to survive until your energy weapon can burst it down.

Cursed (condemned) rooms: I believe the ring one "Dance Master" is definitely the hardest of all the starting combos, but it's mainly because IIRC the bullets don't actually travel in a straight line, or at least the spinning graphics makes an illusion of it.

Offline carldong

  • Full Member Mark II
  • ***
  • Posts: 191
Re: Asking for help about some minibosses and cursed rooms
« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2017, 02:06:15 AM »
the glass versus tile floor design tells you where the Loco will and will not go

Oh WOW! I definitely need to try that! Never found it out.

Pargon is fine for me now, since I know it self destructs. I just never got the attention to actually trace the HP bar.

Offline Draco18s

  • Resident Velociraptor
  • Core Member Mark IV
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,903
Re: Asking for help about some minibosses and cursed rooms
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2017, 08:37:59 AM »
Loco: the glass versus tile floor design tells you where the Loco will and will not go, at least for as long as I've ever seen it alive - it always died before it managed to leave its tracks. So you should be able to move around on - the glass?, - and dodge just the bullets. You don't have to chase it everywhere, it'll just come back to you along its movement pattern.

In having opened up the room in the room editor, that pattern is super obvious. And like a lot of room designs that look like stuff, you can't see it when in-game.

Offline ricardol

  • Newbie Mark II
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: Asking for help about some minibosses and cursed rooms
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2017, 04:33:22 AM »
That's quite interesting you say that, the minigun works very good for me

Offline carldong

  • Full Member Mark II
  • ***
  • Posts: 191
Re: Asking for help about some minibosses and cursed rooms
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2017, 08:49:04 PM »
Loco: the glass versus tile floor design tells you where the Loco will and will not go, at least for as long as I've ever seen it alive - it always died before it managed to leave its tracks. So you should be able to move around on - the glass?, - and dodge just the bullets. You don't have to chase it everywhere, it'll just come back to you along its movement pattern.

In having opened up the room in the room editor, that pattern is super obvious. And like a lot of room designs that look like stuff, you can't see it when in-game.

Yeah, I try not to "spoil" myself looking at the level files... But, maybe I should do that since I am already asking for help anyways.

BTW, I never successfully use D-Pad for anything here, analog only (keyboard/mouse is OK-ish)... Not sure if anyone share the experience, but Dualshock 4's pad really strains my thumb. Too hard to press... I wish there are actual analog input in this game, but I guess that is a design choice.

Offline ricardol

  • Newbie Mark II
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: Asking for help about some minibosses and cursed rooms
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2017, 05:27:37 AM »
It's quite interesting you say that, for me the d pad works quite well.