Author Topic: AI War themed mech...?  (Read 4524 times)

Offline Logorouge

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Re: AI War themed mech...?
« Reply #45 on: February 25, 2018, 12:51:18 PM »
I am not a fan of free items but, if that is what you would be implementing what about credits= negative XP in a minor way?
I wonder if the XP machines could be tweaked to give negative XP with this mech.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: AI War themed mech...?
« Reply #46 on: February 25, 2018, 01:35:10 PM »
So, we'd need a way to be able to make leveling up immediately mandatory.
The simplest approach would be for it to automatically apply the level-up as soon as it became available, randomly picking a "perk".

Alternatively it can do the auto-apply if the player changes rooms while the "press E" text is showing.

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One other issue, if all items are free then what are credits going to be used for? I guess just removing all credits from runs is the way to go for this, although there might be some engine issues with that. I don't think it's currently possible to stop credits spawning that are placed via the map editor.
Is there not some generic effect for "replace all entities of type X with type Y?"

That said, it'd be nice to use the credit mechanic in some way. How about giving that mech the passive ability: "if you try to use energy but don't have enough, and you do have credits, the game automatically takes away 1 credit and gives you X energy (repeating if necessary)"? I don't know what X would be, but we could make it xml-tuneable.

Alternatively, having a minion-spawning thing that burns credits (to produce mercenaries, or neinzul railpods, or whatever) would make sense. But if it's a swappable system it's very easy to get back to a place where credits are there and useless.
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Offline Draco18s

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Re: AI War themed mech...?
« Reply #47 on: February 25, 2018, 02:46:26 PM »
Both "credits to energy" and "mercenaries, or neinzul railpods, or whatever" both sound really cool.
Not neccessarily at the same time, but like, as generic mechanics.

As for how much energy for a credit, 10 credits gets you 20 max energy, so I'd want to get AT LEAST 20 energy-right-now for a credit.

(Hmm, the Credit-Energy-Converter consumable is 5 -> 10, as many times as possible...I regularly have 100+ energy, sometimes as much as 200...I have never and probably would never use this consumable: 50 credits for a refill on energy is expensive and costs 7. The EnergyDrink consumable fills you to full--whatever that is--and costs 15 credits)

Offline Logorouge

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Re: AI War themed mech...?
« Reply #48 on: February 25, 2018, 03:04:02 PM »
(Hmm, the Credit-Energy-Converter consumable is 5 -> 10, as many times as possible...I regularly have 100+ energy, sometimes as much as 200...I have never and probably would never use this consumable: 50 credits for a refill on energy is expensive and costs 7. The EnergyDrink consumable fills you to full--whatever that is--and costs 15 credits)
Yeah, that consumable is just bad. I'm trying to rethink it to make it worth it. I'm leaning toward making it regen energy over time so it's different from the other instant full potions.

Offline Pepisolo

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Re: AI War themed mech...?
« Reply #49 on: February 25, 2018, 06:45:36 PM »
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I am not a fan of free items but, if that is what you would be implementing what about credits= negative XP in a minor way?

It's possible. Getting credits could reduce the XP/AIP bar. Perhaps one of the other approaches might work better, though.  Having some kind of way to spend the XP on mercenaries or whatever.

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The simplest approach would be for it to automatically apply the level-up as soon as it became available, randomly picking a "perk".

Alternatively it can do the auto-apply if the player changes rooms while the "press E" text is showing.

Yeah, the first option sounds the simplest. If we go with that is there then a point to having multiple different perks... perhaps it would be better to just have a single perk that applies a generic buff in that case.

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Is there not some generic effect for "replace all entities of type X with type Y?"

There is, but I don't think it swaps out any credits directly placed via the room editor.

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That said, it'd be nice to use the credit mechanic in some way. How about giving that mech the passive ability: "if you try to use energy but don't have enough, and you do have credits, the game automatically takes away 1 credit and gives you X energy (repeating if necessary)"? I don't know what X would be, but we could make it xml-tuneable.

Alternatively, having a minion-spawning thing that burns credits (to produce mercenaries, or neinzul railpods, or whatever) would make sense. But if it's a swappable system it's very easy to get back to a place where credits are there and useless.

Something like that could work, yeah. Perhaps if you're low on any resource, credits are then automatically converted to that resource. So, you never run out of resources if you have enough credits. The minion spawning thing would perhaps be a bit more AI War-like, though.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: AI War themed mech...?
« Reply #50 on: February 25, 2018, 09:04:13 PM »
Yeah, the first option sounds the simplest. If we go with that is there then a point to having multiple different perks...
It randomizes what the AI "gets".

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Is there not some generic effect for "replace all entities of type X with type Y?"

There is, but I don't think it swaps out any credits directly placed via the room editor.
Is there any reason it shouldn't do that? I don't know if it's particularly hard to make it do so.

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Perhaps if you're low on any resource, credits are then automatically converted to that resource.
True, having it auto-buy missiles or even keycards would be a possibility, though I wonder about balance.

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The minion spawning thing would perhaps be a bit more AI War-like, though.
To an extent. Perhaps it could do the auto-convert thing (just energy, maybe missiles too, not keycards), and if you ever hit max credits it auto "buys" a mercenary familiar? That would closely mimic the actual usage of mercs in AIWC: generally not built until you're near metal-cap.

Though I dunno how many merc familiars you could pile up before things got ridiculous.
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Offline Draco18s

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Re: AI War themed mech...?
« Reply #51 on: February 26, 2018, 12:34:35 AM »
It is really hard to hit the money cap in SR. Takes like 4 floors.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: AI War themed mech...?
« Reply #52 on: February 26, 2018, 11:56:07 AM »
It is really hard to hit the money cap in SR. Takes like 4 floors.
Ah, ok. Maybe nevermind the merc thing, then. Alternatively, lower the credit cap for this mech, though that seems strange.
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Offline Pepisolo

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Re: AI War themed mech...?
« Reply #53 on: February 27, 2018, 10:32:23 AM »
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It randomizes what the AI "gets".

We could do yeah. The only potential issue I can see is perhaps with damage boosts. For a damage boost to have any meaningful effect it would probably need to be at least 50% or just a flat number. Anything less than that and the perk would have no discernible effect on its own for most enemies (for a single level at least). Let's say we do a flat number of 1 extra damage, if a player were to randomly have enemies receiving a +1 damage boost then the damage numbers could potentially get a bit silly. Perhaps needing for enemies to receive multiple damage boost perks for the damage to actually raise is acceptable, though, I'm not sure. The enemy damage numbers are the only thing that are really concerning me, other stuff like health, fire rate... hmmm, actually fire rate is kind of damage output, so maybe we should just cut having any actual shot damage boosts. That would simplify things a bit.

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Is there any reason it shouldn't do that? I don't know if it's particularly hard to make it do so.

I don't think so. If we could stop certain things from seeding via the editor that should be fine.

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True, having it auto-buy missiles or even keycards would be a possibility, though I wonder about balance.

We can probably work out the balance issues as long as we have control over how many credits are spent per resource.

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To an extent. Perhaps it could do the auto-convert thing (just energy, maybe missiles too, not keycards), and if you ever hit max credits it auto "buys" a mercenary familiar? That would closely mimic the actual usage of mercs in AIWC: generally not built until you're near metal-cap.

Though I dunno how many merc familiars you could pile up before things got ridiculous.

I think perhaps that the auto-convert credits idea will probably work without any extra stuff like creating mercenaries. When 0 on a resource X credits are spent to replenish that resource. I guess the only issue there might be what is the priority order if you are on 0 for multiple resources -- make it random? Aside from that seems like a good idea.