Starting Player Mech Weapons

[Cinth]

I ran 4 floors (died on 5) with the FT adjustment.  Feels ok.  Upgrades actually felt like upgrades, which was cool and crit didn't seem overboard.

[Misery]

Weapon spawns - No idea.  Item pools and spawn rates are adjustable, but I haven't messed with any of that to see how it works (not keen on doing it soon either).

I'll likely deal with this myself when I get to them.  I have some ideas for this aspect already, for a variety of items.   Some things will also maybe be moved from one spawn pool to another (Blade Module for instance took a dive into the Sacrifice Room pool.  There's a couple of other very specific items I might stick in there to add some extra variety to that room, that I think also fit that pool well).

I really don't like the Blade Module being in a sac room.  The stuff in the sac rooms are power ups plain and simple.  That's an attachment that can be swapped out for other stuff.  It doesn't fit the theme at all.  I don't care how powerful it is, if you hug up and grab something else and leave the floor, your screwed out of your HP.

Hmm, it does occur to me that it could simply be made into a permanent effect, rather than a module.

That being said, even if it were left that way, it wouldnt be the first item in there that's capable of blinking out of existence if you make a mistake.

That, and... if the player manages to leave an important module behind.... that's.... kinda their own fault.  Even I'm not THAT spacey.  One lesson that games like this tend to drill into you:  be careful when picking up new items.  ALWAYS think it through first.

But yes, I might just change the damn thing.   The simple fact that nobody EVER swaps it out once they have it causes me to forget it's a module in the first place.

[Cinth]

Weapon spawns - No idea.  Item pools and spawn rates are adjustable, but I haven't messed with any of that to see how it works (not keen on doing it soon either).

I'll likely deal with this myself when I get to them.  I have some ideas for this aspect already, for a variety of items.   Some things will also maybe be moved from one spawn pool to another (Blade Module for instance took a dive into the Sacrifice Room pool.  There's a couple of other very specific items I might stick in there to add some extra variety to that room, that I think also fit that pool well).

I really don't like the Blade Module being in a sac room.  The stuff in the sac rooms are power ups plain and simple.  That's an attachment that can be swapped out for other stuff.  It doesn't fit the theme at all.  I don't care how powerful it is, if you hug up and grab something else and leave the floor, your screwed out of your HP.

Hmm, it does occur to me that it could simply be made into a permanent effect, rather than a module.

That being said, even if it were left that way, it wouldnt be the first item in there that's capable of blinking out of existence if you make a mistake.

That, and... if the player manages to leave an important module behind.... that's.... kinda their own fault.  Even I'm not THAT spacey.  One lesson that games like this tend to drill into you:  be careful when picking up new items.  ALWAYS think it through first.

But yes, I might just change the damn thing.   The simple fact that nobody EVER swaps it out once they have it causes me to forget it's a module in the first place.

Honestly, if it's causing this much issue, let's not let it drop for now and come back to it later.  The beautiful thing about all of this is we have time to think about it.

[Misery]

On the note of sacrifice room items, I think I just found a bug of some sort here.

Trying out the Flame mech, right, with your revisions (which arent where the bug is), with it's usual 6 HP, I go into a sacrifice room, buy an item that costs 5, and.... instant death.   I have no idea why.  Has anyone else seen this sort of thing happen?   Just to make sure it wasnt that specific item doing it (It was the mapping thing I bought the first time), I started a new run, went into the next sacrifice room, bought a different 5-cost item, and... instant death.

So that happened.  Needless to say I was at full HP when buying, both times.


Anyway though, on the Flame Mech itself, it does have a much better feel to it now.  The whole thing just seems more balanced and generally less one-sided.   So I approve of all of that.

As for the damn blade.... bah, yes, I'll come up with something later.  It's not a big priority at this exact moment.

[Cinth]

On the note of sacrifice room items, I think I just found a bug of some sort here.

Trying out the Flame mech, right, with your revisions (which arent where the bug is), with it's usual 6 HP, I go into a sacrifice room, buy an item that costs 5, and.... instant death.   I have no idea why.  Has anyone else seen this sort of thing happen?   Just to make sure it wasnt that specific item doing it (It was the mapping thing I bought the first time), I started a new run, went into the next sacrifice room, bought a different 5-cost item, and... instant death.

So that happened.  Needless to say I was at full HP when buying, both times.


Anyway though, on the Flame Mech itself, it does have a much better feel to it now.  The whole thing just seems more balanced and generally less one-sided.   So I approve of all of that.

As for the damn blade.... bah, yes, I'll come up with something later.  It's not a big priority at this exact moment.

Mantis and assign to me and I'll  look at it tomorrow (so I don't forget).  It's similar to some other stuff I have pulled for me to look at.

Awesome.  You can push that change into SVN if you want. (FT adjustment)  Just note it as a balance change for the FT.

[chemical_art]

I really don't like the Blade Module being in a sac room.  The stuff in the sac rooms are power ups plain and simple.  That's an attachment that can be swapped out for other stuff.  It doesn't fit the theme at all.  I don't care how powerful it is, if you hug up and grab something else and leave the floor, your screwed out of your HP.

I will agree, anything that implies a permanent lost for HP should not be able to replaced by something that does not.

[Misery]

Okey dokey, I've mantised that for you, and I've also sent in a gigantic SVN update now.

This contains... lots of stuff.  Basically, I've hit a point where I'm pleased enough with all of the current changes I was working on, including the ones from before, so those are all sent now.  Though the STG may receive a few changes later possibly, but for now I think it's good.  The Flame mech stuff is in here as well.  Just.... lots of files. 

I really don't like the Blade Module being in a sac room.  The stuff in the sac rooms are power ups plain and simple.  That's an attachment that can be swapped out for other stuff.  It doesn't fit the theme at all.  I don't care how powerful it is, if you hug up and grab something else and leave the floor, your screwed out of your HP.

I will agree, anything that implies a permanent lost for HP should not be able to replaced by something that does not.

I've gone and simply disabled the thing for now.   Later it will probably become a different item class entirely (not a module).  But for the time being it's simply shut off.  Less trouble for now.  Some other items in the sacrifice room need a look before that thing anyway.


This does bring up something though:  What about the probation items that are in these rooms?  What's everyone's thoughts on those?  Those are full-cost things that, while powerful, can be gone in an instant.  Are they something that should be appearing in here?  And if not, what might go in their place?  I'd rather not make this item pool any smaller than it is.

[chemical_art]

For the record, disabling something because "Less trouble for now." that doesn't resolve in crashes is about the worst way to deal with a problem. I would suggest the possibility of losing a sac item to a non sac item is bad, but losing the item altogether is about the only thing worst.

Addendium: To just make clear, I would rather the item remain as-is until a solution is reached, rather then losing said item altogether.

[Misery]

For the record, disabling something because "Less trouble for now." that doesn't resolve in crashes is about the worst way to deal with a problem. I would suggest the possibility of losing a sac item to a non sac item is bad, but losing the item altogether is about the only thing worst.

Addendium: To just make clear, I would rather the item remain as-is until a solution is reached, rather then losing said item altogether.

Actually I only disabled it because I thought that's what Cinth's suggeston meant... but now going back and reading it I see it just says "come back to it later".

How, exactly, I read that wrong is.... ugh.   I dont know why I even try to define these moments of confusion anymore.  It's bloody pointless.  Let's just blame the weather.  And Windows.


Better idea anyway: not only have I re-enabled it just now, but in order to take out a problematic item from that room (that room costing you HP and all), I stuffed it into the OTHER secret room for now.  The one that's a good bit harder to find.  It is however still accessible and now without a cost.  For now.

[chemical_art]

Thanks! That sounds reasonable

[Cinth]

Actually I only disabled it because I thought that's what Cinth's suggeston meant... but now going back and reading it I see it just says "come back to it later".

How, exactly, I read that wrong is.... ugh.   I dont know why I even try to define these moments of confusion anymore.  It's bloody pointless.  Let's just blame the weather.  And Windows.


Better idea anyway: not only have I re-enabled it just now, but in order to take out a problematic item from that room (that room costing you HP and all), I stuffed it into the OTHER secret room for now.  The one that's a good bit harder to find.  It is however still accessible and now without a cost.  For now.

You didn't misread it. Turn off the item and come back to it later.  Like skipping a math problem. 

[Misery]

Well I'm officially lost for now.  Again.  Always with the confusion.  Clearly it's a conspiracy.

Part of that confusion though is that it's way past time I just get to bed.   For now I"m just going to leave the stupid gizmo in the secret room.  It's mostly harmless in there.

[Cinth]

Well I'm officially lost for now.  Again.  Always with the confusion.  Clearly it's a conspiracy.

Part of that confusion though is that it's way past time I just get to bed.   For now I"m just going to leave the stupid gizmo in the secret room.  It's mostly harmless in there.

That's fine.  I thought I was being pretty clear.  I try most to confuse.

[Hearteater]

Prohibition items in sac rooms are pointless. Hello Harmony, I see you every run, and I'm never buying you.

Actually, that's not entirely true. I would consider buying infinite missiles right before a boss fight because that's basically a free boss win, depending on how concerned I was about facing the boss based on what I'd collected so far.

[Hearteater]

Have you tried both versions of this boss?

There's Mirror, the normal early-game boss, and then there's Mirror V2 that appears only on floor 6. It has a seperate test chamber of it's own.  A bit of feedback on that guy would be good too (feedback is always really great when there's big pattern changes!)

Good to see that the main one seems better though.


And yeah, that hitbox thing makes a HUGE difference, doesnt it?  My enjoyment of the game just plain multiplied as soon as that change was made.

MirrorV2 also feels good, although I haven't had time to get to stage 2 just testing about a twenty times. My record is 28 seconds (I'd tell you the health bar%, but it disappears as soon as I die so I don't know). That's 28 seconds putting damage on him. I generally last around 15 seconds. Keep in mind this is the testing room, so no upgrades to anything. He feels subtle harder than V1 in a good way. It is similar to V1, but different enough to add to the challenge in a way that makes you feel like you can apply what your learned on V1 to V2. I'll let you know how I feel about stage 2 when I get there .