Author Topic: More mechs  (Read 6511 times)

Offline MasterTouan

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Re: More mechs
« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2016, 10:29:39 PM »
BigUp to this thread.  8)
Have some comments to do on these mechs.
I'm playing in Normal, just so you know beforehand.


- Arsenal is simply glorious. I accumulated so much damage enhancing bonuses, and with the Turbo Gatling and Flamethrower, the bosses litteraly melted in a matter of seconds. Even the "real" last one.
Very interesting concept to mix weapons, and great to play with.

- The Rex's energy weapon, the Torpedo Launcher, is definitely cool. Allows to break blocks while keeping missiles, as well as instantly clear big enemies or groups.
It's strong and tough. However the primary weapon is a bit disappointing (Basic Minigun? what's about trying to give it the Grenade Launcher?).
Also I didn't really notice the missile drop bonus on enemies, maybe because I didn't fire enough missiles...
I'd also add more base missiles to the Rex, feels like it doesn't have enough. Considering I reached 20 with the Pyro once, I'd expect that missile-themed Rex to reach that amount with ease, hehe.

- Penumbra: while at first I wasn't fond of the 1pv only gameplay nor its energy weapon, I had the time to take Risky Assassin and two bonuses enhancing my firepower and firerate...
It really started to feel wonderful. The mech is fast, agile, powerful, fired from far and with bouncing shots. I cleared the first few floors more easily than I thought I would've.
Can't wait to try Corrupting Power on it.
Is there no way though to avoid the mech having health upgrade/regeneration bonuses when leveling? As well as giving a different bonus when 8 health shards are gathered (money, key, something).

- Roulette mech has a real slow beginning, as intended. On one run I remained weak and got crushed at first boss, while during another one I obtained very early some powerful upgrades through leveling.
Guess it's a sort of a neutral mech that you evolve into what you want (and can). Its name is well justified...


IMO these mechs could/should be in the game already. Considering some fan-made contents already made it in apparently, I don't think it'd be too much of a problem to try adding this, either through free patch, or very small DLC(s). Game developpers can sometimes "officialize" some modders' work into their games, so it's not a forbbiden move, although not always a justified one (looking at you, CS: Art Deco pack).
However in SR's case, as there is no workshop nor anything, it would make sense. Also considering ArcenGames situation, it could make for an easy thin support before the AIWar2 kickstarter.
Of course, the mechs may not be fully balanced yet, but they would have much more visibility out of this forum and could get feedbacks from the rest of the player's community.

These are just my opinions, felt like sharing it. I really would like to see this game expanded, and the mechs above are worthy additions IMO.
They'd need achievements btw. While I'm at it, the Humble and some incredibilities still don't have their own achievements  ::)
« Last Edit: September 29, 2016, 10:37:16 PM by MasterTouan »

Offline Logorouge

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Re: More mechs
« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2016, 11:09:21 PM »
These are just my opinions, felt like sharing it.
I'm glad you did. :)

For Rex, I did keep his initial missile capacity kinda low for a missile-focused mech, but I also packed his levelups with +4missiles perks so his capacity potential is pretty impressive. I figured his missile regain ability would be enough to keep his stock near full anyway. The basic minigun is due to a personal philosophy of mine. Starting with an awesome weapon is great, but finding an awesome weapon is amazing. I didn't want to undermine that experience by making Rex's starting gun too good. Same thing for his missile launcher actually.

- Penumbra: [...]
Is there no way though to avoid the mech having health upgrade/regeneration bonuses when leveling?
Isn't that already the case for Penumbra? I thought I removed all the +hp perks from his levelups. For the health shards, I don't know if I can change their effect. But alternate effects for those in general might be interesting though.

In any case, thank you for your kind words. Much appreciated.

Offline Pepisolo

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Re: More mechs
« Reply #17 on: September 30, 2016, 09:57:15 AM »
Quote
IMO these mechs could/should be in the game already. Considering some fan-made contents already made it in apparently, I don't think it'd be too much of a problem to try adding this, either through free patch, or very small DLC(s). Game developpers can sometimes "officialize" some modders' work into their games, so it's not a forbbiden move, although not always a justified one (looking at you, CS: Art Deco pack).
However in SR's case, as there is no workshop nor anything, it would make sense. Also considering ArcenGames situation, it could make for an easy thin support before the AIWar2 kickstarter.
Of course, the mechs may not be fully balanced yet, but they would have much more visibility out of this forum and could get feedbacks from the rest of the player's community.

These are just my opinions, felt like sharing it. I really would like to see this game expanded, and the mechs above are worthy additions IMO.

We are 100% willing to include fan-made submissions like this in the game. The overriding problem with this for mechs is that SR has very little budget for new mech art (if any at all) and putting in mocked up style art is not really acceptable -- although one of these mechs does look pretty good actually, the Penumbra, which I presume is based on enemy ship art, but it does look good.

Regarding these individual mechs, they have potential as additions, I'll review each one.

Arsenal -- The dual maingun idea is fantastic, the problem with this one is engine interface stuff. There would need to be a way of showing each maingun in the inventory and possible of having a way to choose which maingun gets swapped out. A cleaner implementation of this mech would probably be having a mech that only has 2 main guns, we can then use the energy weapon slot for the main gun. But even that would require engine work beyond the Freaking Volunteer's abilities, I think.

Rex -- Last I checked, this one felt a little lacklustre although the general concept is good. No engine problems with this one, so it's a possibility, though.

Penbumbra -- Probably the most likely candidate for adding to the game. I actually have a secondary weapon that would work well on this mech, a weapon that shrinks you out of existence (just something to add a bit more to the gameplay than the kunai), then we could use a rotating shuriken shot as the main or something. Really make this an assassiny ninja style mech.

Roulette -- I love the concept of this one, and this would go well as an addition to along with the perk overhaul. One flaw I see is that with such a random perk selection it would be possible to get options for perks that aren't really meant to be selected twice, which is a bit janky. Something like Map Master, for example. We'd need a solution for that problem, I think. If we had a solution for that then I'd probably push for this mech to be included for the next update.


Offline Logorouge

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Re: More mechs
« Reply #18 on: September 30, 2016, 09:56:02 PM »
The overriding problem with this for mechs is that SR has very little budget for new mech art (if any at all) and putting in mocked up style art is not really acceptable -- although one of these mechs does look pretty good actually, the Penumbra, which I presume is based on enemy ship art, but it does look good.
Yeah, Penumbra is the one instance where my crude method of mashing together existing assets gave a decent result. The rest make me feel like I should apologize to Blue. (Are the enemies art from Blue?)

By the way, did you try Rex since his latest update? He's quite the missile-flinging machine now.

Offline Pepisolo

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Re: More mechs
« Reply #19 on: October 01, 2016, 11:45:37 AM »

Yeah, Penumbra is the one instance where my crude method of mashing together existing assets gave a decent result. The rest make me feel like I should apologize to Blue. (Are the enemies art from Blue?)

By the way, did you try Rex since his latest update? He's quite the missile-flinging machine now.

Yeah, Blue does all the enemy and mech art. I just gave the Rex a quick go, and yeah seems improved. The general concept is so strong -- a missile focused mech --  and since there are no technical barriers it could definitely be a candidate for inclusion. I think it's still missing something, though. For example, since we can individually control missile damage, I think that a starting missile damage increase would be a nice boost. Double damage with missiles, maybe, that would make the mech a bit more game-changey. It's not that far off, though.

Offline Logorouge

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Re: More mechs
« Reply #20 on: October 01, 2016, 12:01:35 PM »
Yeah, Blue does all the enemy and mech art. I just gave the Rex a quick go, and yeah seems improved. The general concept is so strong -- a missile focused mech --  and since there are no technical barriers it could definitely be a candidate for inclusion. I think it's still missing something, though. For example, since we can individually control missile damage, I think that a starting missile damage increase would be a nice boost. Double damage with missiles, maybe, that would make the mech a bit more game-changey. It's not that far off, though.
If I had to think of another missile-flavored power for him (and knew how to do it) I would probably give him a 25% chance of missiles having a random debuff effect. Now that would make the player want to use all those missiles in combat. It could push him in the OP category though. I might already have gone a bit far with that secondary. :P

Offline Pepisolo

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Re: More mechs
« Reply #21 on: October 01, 2016, 12:08:46 PM »
If I had to think of another missile-flavored power for him (and knew how to do it) I would probably give him a 25% chance of missiles having a random debuff effect. Now that would make the player want to use all those missiles in combat. It could push him in the OP category though. I might already have gone a bit far with that secondary. :P

I wanted to implement missile only debuff perks for the perk overhaul, but current it's not possible in the engine. I've asked Ptarth if he can extend the engine as there is already similar code in there for main gains, but that might be too much of a Keithy feature. Regarding the Torpedo Cannon, yeah, maybe it's too powerful, what would be good is a fresh energy weapon for Rex, maybe a variant of the Torpedo Cannon or something, more suited as a starting weapon.

Offline Logorouge

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Re: More mechs
« Reply #22 on: October 01, 2016, 08:47:17 PM »
Updated Rex to v1.3 and Alpha (commonly known as Roulette) to v1.1.
The mech pack was also updated with the latest versions.

These are 100% aesthetic updates though, so nothing new gameplay-wise, but the mechs new appearance is quite the upgrade in my opinion.
Enjoy.

Offline Pepisolo

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Re: More mechs
« Reply #23 on: October 02, 2016, 10:13:47 AM »
Just checked the new stuff out, yeah, you seem pretty awesome at modifying existing assets and stuff in order to create new art. As good as these look, I'm still slightly reluctant to consider them for the main game for mechs, as I think that those should ideally be designed by Blue, just to retain her consistency. However, one thing you might be able to help with is in creating new perk icons for the game by modifying existing assets. One thing we're going to need for the perk overhaul is new perk icons, but I think that we can get away with modifying existing assets for a lot of those....maybe. Just an idea, if you want to take a look at the new perks and think you can create new icons for them using existing assets, we'll probably use them, I think. Even if we can only get a few decent perk icons made up, that leaves Blue with less work to do.

Offline Logorouge

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Re: More mechs
« Reply #24 on: November 05, 2016, 01:53:25 PM »
Added a new mech to the lineup and updated the mech pack to include it too. (files were attached to the second post)
Have fun!
« Last Edit: March 29, 2017, 02:03:51 PM by Logorouge »

Offline ptarth

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Re: More mechs
« Reply #25 on: November 05, 2016, 05:28:14 PM »
Nice. I have too many other fires burning atm to check it out. But I will.
Note: This post contains content that is meant to be whimsical. Any belittlement or trivialization of complex issues is only intended to lighten the mood and does not reflect upon the merit of those positions.

Offline Pepisolo

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Re: More mechs
« Reply #26 on: November 26, 2016, 06:55:52 PM »
Good news! Just by setting those perks that aren't meant to be stacked to can_seed_multiple_times_per_run="false" seems to solve the Roulette Mech Alpha perk problem. If the perk isn't selected then it doesn't actually seed, so those perks will then also be offered again at later levels. Things seem to be working well, so I'd say that it's very likely that we'll be seeing this mech in the game at some point. It's possible for the next patch, but that depends on if we can get the art created for it, it may take longer before that happens. Don't hold me to it 100%, though, as some problems could arise.

As for the Behemoth, a mech similar to this is probably also going to make it into the game at some point -- The Warhog. It has a similar feel, it's like a really tough beast of a mech, although more of a commando type thing than yours. I've been wanting to do a beefy mech like this for a while. Rather than regen like you have on this, the Warhog is probably going to have damage reduction, though.

Offline Logorouge

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Re: More mechs
« Reply #27 on: November 26, 2016, 10:47:31 PM »
Good news! Just by setting those perks that aren't meant to be stacked to can_seed_multiple_times_per_run="false" seems to solve the Roulette Mech Alpha perk problem. If the perk isn't selected then it doesn't actually seed, so those perks will then also be offered again at later levels. Things seem to be working well, so I'd say that it's very likely that we'll be seeing this mech in the game at some point. It's possible for the next patch, but that depends on if we can get the art created for it, it may take longer before that happens. Don't hold me to it 100%, though, as some problems could arise.

As for the Behemoth, a mech similar to this is probably also going to make it into the game at some point -- The Warhog. It has a similar feel, it's like a really tough beast of a mech, although more of a commando type thing than yours. I've been wanting to do a beefy mech like this for a while. Rather than regen like you have on this, the Warhog is probably going to have damage reduction, though.
Great news! Thanks, Pepsisolo.
That problem with Roulette was bugging me for the longest time. It's awesome to see it solved in a clean way.

And I can't wait to see the Warhog. I've been curious about that one even since you mentioned it back in July.

Offline Pepisolo

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Re: More mechs
« Reply #28 on: December 15, 2016, 06:21:01 PM »
A couple of things. Got any ideas for a Roulette mech special perk? Given that the mech jumbles up all the perks, it may be that the mech doesn't need any special perks but if you have any ideas for good ones, it might be cool to put at least one in.

Also, it's looking likely that Penumbra is also going to make it in, so any special perk ideas for that would be helpful if you have any. Oh, the mechs will be changed in some ways, of course, with unique weapons and stuff etc. I presume you're okay with that? Also, the Warhog is mostly finished. Get ready for the Cataclysm Launcher! :)

Note: the Logo derived mechs will be going into the base game, not the DLC.

Offline Logorouge

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Re: More mechs
« Reply #29 on: December 15, 2016, 07:59:20 PM »
A couple of things. Got any ideas for a Roulette mech special perk? Given that the mech jumbles up all the perks, it may be that the mech doesn't need any special perks but if you have any ideas for good ones, it might be cool to put at least one in.

Also, it's looking likely that Penumbra is also going to make it in, so any special perk ideas for that would be helpful if you have any. Oh, the mechs will be changed in some ways, of course, with unique weapons and stuff etc. I presume you're okay with that? Also, the Warhog is mostly finished. Get ready for the Cataclysm Launcher! :)

Note: the Logo derived mechs will be going into the base game, not the DLC.
Is it Christmas already? Roulette and Jr might make it into the game? That's beyond awesome. :D

About changes: As long as the concept of the mech is preserved I have no issue with it, so don't worry about it.

Special perks: For those two, I kinda made all their special abilities available from the start, so I never gave special perks much thought.
-Roulette: Considering its random perk selection, I'm not sure having an unique one lost among all that would be worth it. Anyway, you could expand on the random nature of the mech with something like that random consumable ability you proposed in the 1.502 beta thread. Sounded fun.

-Penumbra: Many possibilities for this one. I only gave him a partial set of abilities compared to the real Risky Assassin. The special perks could allow him to complete that set (including stealth on room entry, range (maybe not that one), bouncy shots, etc). Or it could be fun to encourage the risk-taking aspect with some major offense bonus on room entry. But I have to say I'm biased toward a stealth ability.

Also, Cataclysm Launcher? I love it. >D