What do you guys think of player movement right now?

[Misery]

Okay, so, right now, the player's basic movement is an important topic and one of the things that's in focus here.  Alot of back and forth on this subject, and it's difficult to come to a conclusion on just how this should be done.  I'm talking about the "feel" of the player ship's movement here, when in the "momentum" mode.  The "shmup" control mode is fine and is a seperate beast.

But yeah, it's definitely an issue at the moment, and in an effort to make decisions on this easier for Chris and everyone (once there's time for them to really look at it), I figured it might be a good idea to collect some feedback from you guys, as that could really help out alot.

So here's my 4 questions as they are:

1.  What do you think of the current feel of the game, when played with whatever ship it is you use most?  Is it good?  Is it too slippery, or too stiff?

2.  Which ships do you find yourself using alot, and which ones do you not like?  And why?

3.  Do you find the Afterburner useful?  Is it easy to control, or are you not finding that to be the case?

4.  How do you think it is when in the context of the actual combat?  This means both bullet patterns and also navigation within rooms?  Do you find that you're taking alot of hits BECAUSE of the controls?  Or does it seem right to you, for dodging and accurate movement?


There we go, I think that covers it nicely.   Really, any info you can give here will help, for when it's time to go over this.  I'm just doing this in advance to make it easier.  Theoretically.

And if you have any additional feedback beyond those questions there, leave that too!  Whatever you think might help.

[crazyroosterman]

Okay, so, right now, the player's basic movement is an important topic and one of the things that's in focus here.  Alot of back and forth on this subject, and it's difficult to come to a conclusion on just how this should be done.  I'm talking about the "feel" of the player ship's movement here, when in the "momentum" mode.  The "shmup" control mode is fine and is a seperate beast.

But yeah, it's definitely an issue at the moment, and in an effort to make decisions on this easier for Chris and everyone (once there's time for them to really look at it), I figured it might be a good idea to collect some feedback from you guys, as that could really help out alot.

So here's my 4 questions as they are:

1.  What do you think of the current feel of the game, when played with whatever ship it is you use most?  Is it good?  Is it too slippery, or too stiff?

2.  Which ships do you find yourself using alot, and which ones do you not like?  And why?

3.  Do you find the Afterburner useful?  Is it easy to control, or are you not finding that to be the case?

4.  How do you think it is when in the context of the actual combat?  This means both bullet patterns and also navigation within rooms?  Do you find that you're taking alot of hits BECAUSE of the controls?  Or does it seem right to you, for dodging and accurate movement?


There we go, I think that covers it nicely.   Really, any info you can give here will help, for when it's time to go over this.  I'm just doing this in advance to make it easier.  Theoretically.

And if you have any additional feedback beyond those questions there, leave that too!  Whatever you think might help.

1 personally to me it feels slippery even though it dosent look slippery I cant quite explain that disparity really its just odd.

2 the paladin and the dark night mostly because I find them easier to control but also because shield regen is so slow that I don't using ships which rely more on them.

3 I don't ever use it in bosses it feels like a death wish and in normal encounters I tend to forget I have it.

4 It feels to zippy for my liking although I find it fine bosses were I'm moving like the multi stage boss.

extra thoughts part of me almost wants to have a way to manually set my speed almost like tlf.

[Pepisolo]

1)

Even though I thought I'd adapted to SHMUP mode and I wouldn't like momentum mode, I do find myself choosing momentum after the latest tweaks. It seems to have most of the precision of SHMUP mode, but a little more feel. That said, I'm still a little torn as there's not much between the two modes for me.

2)

I only really use Paladin, mainly just because I like the name and I have a modded version that looks more streamlined with the wings back a bit. The ship choice doesn't seem too appealing to me so I've just been sticking with what I know.

3)

I really like it! Like a lot. Using the joypad I'm boosting around the place in style, ducking through gaps in bullet patterns, and feeling like a badass pilot. My opinion might be slightly exaggerated on this because I really hated the super boring old backtrack afterburner. I think something that may be emerging is a significant disparity between the joypad controls and the keyboard, though.

4)

Went over this in my last bit, but, yeah I'm using it a fair bit in combat. You can't go crazy with it. Holding it straight down is a usually a no-no, but it's very useful with little taps here and there to boost you in between patterns. I only really hold it for when I need a more complete positional change, like zooming around to the opposite end of the arena. Feels like it has nuances which need to be learned and which provide some fun gameplay.  For backtracking I still find it fine, no problems. Again, I'm concerned that there is a disparity between the keyboard and joypad controls on this.

Misery, you use joypad, right? What do you think of the afterburner?

[Pepisolo]

extra thoughts part of me almost wants to have a way to manually set my speed almost like tlf.

Y'know, I've been playing a bit of Border Down recently and the ship in that actually has a 3-gear speed change which works surprisingly well.  You start off medium, tap change gear to cycle to fast, tap again to go slow etc. It just cycles through, them. Really useful for giving you finer control over your ship. Something like that for Starward Rogue is probably too complicated, though.

[tombik]

What about increasing the speed the more you move to the same direction? First it will feel more ship-like. Second, it is a solution for complaints about being too fast, without taking the option out. Third,  this is a bit subjective, I dont find myself using afterburner at all, since default speed is already fast as it is, and with the inclusion of "speeding up" time, actually afterburner will have more uses. (Like NOS in race games).

Also, maybe will be a bit game changing but, currently ramming into walls with full speed , even with afterburner does not hurt the ship at all. Inclusion of accidents like this together with some rooms about maneuvring fast will make miracles for me.

1. I use default ship. It mostly feels better than it was used to. Still, kinda clunky, since hitboxes does not care about floating around part, I guess.

2. Since ships have the same graphics, currently I did not bother trying them all.

3. No. It is easy to control, but adding mostly nothing for me.

4. I really suck with most of the bosses. I am not sure what is the reason, maybe not being an avid pure SEMUP player is relevant. But so is hitboxes, I am having hard time understanding where it is okay to be, and where is not.

[ptarth]

1.  What do you think of the current feel of the game, when played with whatever ship it is you use most?  Is it good?  Is it too slippery, or too stiff?

I don't like the deceleration in regular mode. I prefer SHMOOP. The 400 speed ships are fast enough for me. The rotation speed in regular mode is too fast.

2.  Which ships do you find yourself using alot, and which ones do you not like?  And why?

I prefer the 400 speed ships, I find the others to be too fast. I have a feeling that the game scale is off, that the player ship could be smaller and everything else bigger. The shots could also be a little slower to fix the scaling.

3.  Do you find the Afterburner useful?  Is it easy to control, or are you not finding that to be the case?

I can't use the afterburner in combat, it makes the ship too unwieldy. Outside of combat it occasionally makes things easier to move around, but I typically forget it.

4.  How do you think it is when in the context of the actual combat?  This means both bullet patterns and also navigation within rooms?  Do you find that you're taking alot of hits BECAUSE of the controls?  Or does it seem right to you, for dodging and accurate movement?

See my previous scale and distance comments.

Note: I use gamepad.

[Pepisolo]

Just a suggestion, but one piece of information that might be useful to know in this feedback is whether people are using keyboard or joypad controls. This should help in assessing if there is a disparity in the control methods.

[crazyroosterman]

Just a suggestion, but one piece of information that might be useful to know in this feedback is whether people are using keyboard or joypad controls. This should help in assessing if there is a disparity in the control methods.

I'm using keypad controls personaly.

[donblas]

I'm actually pretty OK with movement to be honest. Of everything, not on my radar as much. Keyboard + mouse here.

[Misery]

Just a quick note while I"m thinking about it and before I go off to have my meal and stuff:

Firstly, for question number 4, I phrased it wrong.   It's not meant to be about the Afterburner but the movement as a whole in the context of combat.

And to answer the question, yeah, I use a gamepad.  Gotta use a gamepad.   With a keyboard and mouse I'd be crashing into everything.   As for the Afterburner, hmm, it depends.   I use it alot when in normal rooms.  Not so much against bosses.  Except the new "Labyrinth" boss.  That thing is sorta designed to force the Afterburner's use a bit.  Which wasnt my original intent with it but I rather like the idea. But you'll see that thing for yourselves soon enough.   But for the other bosses?  I dont really use it there.  The fights are "contained" enough that there's not all that much need and in some situations it'd just be a dumb idea.   I suspect that, once they're implemented, miniboss rooms, challenge rooms, and a certain element of shops will be the same.

Also, yes, I hadnt thought to ask what kinds of control setups you guys are using!  That'll indeed be helpful too.

Speaking of that:   What do you guys think of the current keybinds and such?  Not really related to the momentum stuff but it'll still be useful info for later.

[mrhanman]

1.  What do you think of the current feel of the game, when played with whatever ship it is you use most?  Is it good?  Is it too slippery, or too stiff?

I mainly use the default ship, and I think the controls have developed to the point that I like them and I don't feel like the controls are killing me.  I really wish I could give you a fresh impression, because I can't be sure if I've not just gotten used to them.

I use keyboard controls, but I will switch to gamepad once the aiming gets worked on.

2.  Which ships do you find yourself using alot, and which ones do you not like?  And why?

The default ship is the one I use the most, just so I can provide more consistent feedback.  I have tried all of them out, but i don't remember liking or disliking any one in particular.

3.  Do you find the Afterburner useful?  Is it easy to control, or are you not finding that to be the case?

I use the afterburner as a backtracking aid, and nothing more.  The ship is fast enough for me as it is, but I'm glad it's there for backtracking.

4.  How do you think it is when in the context of the actual combat?  This means both bullet patterns and also navigation within rooms?  Do you find that you're taking alot of hits BECAUSE of the controls?  Or does it seem right to you, for dodging and accurate movement?

The bullet patterns for the most part are good and interesting, but one in particular either needs to be toned down, or reserved for later levels.  The Arc, I believe it's called.  The one that fires a single bullet that spreads into a wider column that then fires off at the speed of light.  Yeah, I hate that one.

As for the rooms themselves, some feel too claustrophobic.  i like the ones that are more wide open.  Having obstacles in the room is fine, but there needs to be room to dodge.

[Misery]

1.  What do you think of the current feel of the game, when played with whatever ship it is you use most?  Is it good?  Is it too slippery, or too stiff?

I mainly use the default ship, and I think the controls have developed to the point that I like them and I don't feel like the controls are killing me.  I really wish I could give you a fresh impression, because I can't be sure if I've not just gotten used to them.

I use keyboard controls, but I will switch to gamepad once the aiming gets worked on.

2.  Which ships do you find yourself using alot, and which ones do you not like?  And why?

The default ship is the one I use the most, just so I can provide more consistent feedback.  I have tried all of them out, but i don't remember liking or disliking any one in particular.

3.  Do you find the Afterburner useful?  Is it easy to control, or are you not finding that to be the case?

I use the afterburner as a backtracking aid, and nothing more.  The ship is fast enough for me as it is, but I'm glad it's there for backtracking.

4.  How do you think it is when in the context of the actual combat?  This means both bullet patterns and also navigation within rooms?  Do you find that you're taking alot of hits BECAUSE of the controls?  Or does it seem right to you, for dodging and accurate movement?

The bullet patterns for the most part are good and interesting, but one in particular either needs to be toned down, or reserved for later levels.  The Arc, I believe it's called.  The one that fires a single bullet that spreads into a wider column that then fires off at the speed of light.  Yeah, I hate that one.

As for the rooms themselves, some feel too claustrophobic.  i like the ones that are more wide open.  Having obstacles in the room is fine, but there needs to be room to dodge.

After a few complaints, yeah, I'm gonna slow down the Arc's shots.  Probably not by a super huge amount (the idea is not to dodge the huge bolt so much as get out of the way before it forms, by watching the initial bullet that spawns it), but I also intend on lowering it's firing rate.  I'd actually forgotten about that issue and hadnt balanced the fire rate very well during initial testing.  It's definitely firing too often. 

Though yes, some more open rooms might be nice, though I do like the rooms that are there so far.

Going to start making some of my own and adding them to the mix for that matter.  Very good room editor they came up with, actually, couldnt be easier to use!

Still thinking also that the hitbox of the player's ship might get shrunk a bit further, which might make some aspects less frustrating and also might just work better with the cramped nature of some areas.  Particularly after redoing the Mirror boss earlier, which now... doesnt exactly leave you a whole lot of room to zoom around.  May have gone a bit overboard with that one, we'll see.  But the exploit is gone at least!

[keith.lamothe]

The Arc is fun, due to the "pre dodge" behavior it requires, but with the bullet being relatively small and the background relatively busy visually, it can be hard to tell what way the bullet is facing before it fans out, while also dodging all the other murder being sprayed in your direction.

Possibly the arc bullet could be made more visually prominent, but I'm not sure if that would conflict with other goals.

[Misery]

Ah, that's a good point, I hadnt thought of that.

I might switch it out then with one of those giant peak bullets.  Those seem nice and easy to spot at all times.

Though I have noticed that bullets in general being a little hard to spot can be an issue on certain backgrounds, for a large variety of enemies.  I dont know what to do about that.  Depends alot on which "behind the glass" background happened to appear for the room.  That bit could be a problem.

[keith.lamothe]

Yea, good point on the variable background color. Probably something to bring up with Chris.

On the movement, for the next version I added a "slow down" key, just to see if that helps.