Author Topic: Flame Mech is OP  (Read 1761 times)

Offline Bluddy

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Flame Mech is OP
« on: January 20, 2016, 06:33:23 PM »
Just like Isaac, what matters most is not your active attack which is limited anyway, but your passive regular attack. Having the huge flame jet is just too strong IMHO.

I'm not saying I'm entirely opposed to an Azazel-level character in this game, but at the same time, I'm not so fond of Azazel myself. When you have so much destructive power, the game loses its challenge, and that's a huge ingredient in a game like this.

Possible solution: take away the flame cannon, and give the flame mech an active that can only be used once per room. This active makes your regular attack into the flame cannon for a few seconds. This means that you have the same destructive power, but only for a brief moment.

Offline Misery

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Re: Flame Mech is OP
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2016, 06:58:58 PM »
Actually for some situations, the flame mech might be heavily underpowered.  The lowered basic attack range is *bad* against anything that fires enough crap at you.  For some bosses on higher difficulty, it's likely to make the fight 5x as difficult because, well... good luck getting close enough.

Unless they changed the range on the flamethrower, that is, since I had a go with it last.  But last I used it, it wasnt good.   My rule of thumb so far is:  If the weapon's range is shorter than that of the White Gloss Mech's basic gun, it's going to probably get you killed in high-difficulty situations.  Normal mode though doesnt have too much of that.  Probably.

Now that being said, weapons that do alot of rapid hits are very OP right now as damage goes.  This might be one for Mantis, because it's a problem that seriously needs emphasis on how bad it can get.  Late-game boss HP is high right now, and this is the reason.

And it's possible to get that kind of damage with very LONG range weapons.  Early in the game.

Offline TheVampire100

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Re: Flame Mech is OP
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2016, 07:21:16 PM »
What I've noticed so far, the Flame Mech has a strong early game (first twi floors, start of third floor) until you hit the third boss. That's the point when you notice that high area amage won't do the cut against something like Vestige or Dark Arrbirition. Esspecially when you can hardly see their pullets and you HAVE to see their bullets.
The White glow on the other hand has a weak early game but gets more powerful towards the end game.
I think the Flame Mech is the "Noob Mech" because you can force your way through most enemies with raw fire power without thinking much about dodging. But the further you get the more you fall into this noob trap, when you notice, that you HAVE to learn to dodge. I call it "The Misery effect".

Offline Misery

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Re: Flame Mech is OP
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2016, 07:28:21 PM »
I call it "The Misery effect".

Anywhere that I have made anything (not just this forum), eventually, somebody says.... pretty much this.   This fact entertains me.


And yeah, I can agree with you mostly.  Though, I dont think that's how they really intend on the flame one to be, is the noob mech.  I think it's just a bit out of whack right now.  Needs to be up on Mantis if it isnt already. 

I need to spend some time experimenting with the flame mech myself though so maybe I can make some suggestions.  Not to mention I'd kinda like to see what happens when it goes up against certain boosted bosses.

Offline crazyroosterman

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Re: Flame Mech is OP
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2016, 07:39:00 PM »
yea pretty much agree with misery/vampire trying to use that flame thrower against dark (since he's the only one I've actually fought with the flame mech for some reason) is actually impossible mainly the range really I can cope with the blinding also I don't think he's the noob mech personally I think that goes to the redshift  being able to stop bullets constantly is wonderful for people like with rubbish reflexes and the secondary borders on being op I think its rad.
c.r

Offline Bluddy

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Re: Flame Mech is OP
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2016, 08:20:33 PM »
OK glad to see I was off on that one. I haven't had so much time to play recently. Probably should have put a question mark in the title.

Offline Misery

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Re: Flame Mech is OP
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2016, 08:40:26 PM »
OK glad to see I was off on that one. I haven't had so much time to play recently. Probably should have put a question mark in the title.

You might not be completely off.

I tried it out for a couple of levels myself, and it looks like they might actually have increased the thing's range.  In that case, it can become OP easily.  Added damage or less reload time seem to overdo it with this one.

I need more time testing it though.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Flame Mech is OP
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2016, 08:56:39 PM »
I believe someone was nerfing the flame a bit for the next version.

But yea, it's very strong early on, and is thus a good beginner choice, but I imagine you'd have to pick your perks pretty carefully to keep it competitive further down. And if you build your character around that flamethrower... well, then I guess you'll burn or be burned :)

We'll see.
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Offline crazyroosterman

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Re: Flame Mech is OP
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2016, 10:36:20 PM »
on the note of mech balance does the green envy's main feel faster than the others to anybody else?.
c.r

Offline Cinth

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Re: Flame Mech is OP
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2016, 12:17:15 AM »
on the note of mech balance does the green envy's main feel faster than the others to anybody else?.

It's equipped with the Fast Minigun.  White Gloss and Indigo Dipole are equipped with the Basic Minigun.  Deep Blue is equipped with the Slow Minigun.  Redshift is equipped with the Low-Range Minigun.  Flame Tank is watching the world burn.

So to answer your question, yes, the Green Ivy's primary is the fastest minigun.
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Opened your save. My computer wept. Switched to the ST planet and ship icons filled my screen, so I zoomed out. Game told me that it _was_ totally zoomed out. You could seriously walk from one end of the inner grav well to the other without getting your feet cold.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Flame Mech is OP
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2016, 12:20:32 AM »
Flame Tank is watching the world burn.
I love the smell of napalm in the morning.
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Offline Cinth

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Re: Flame Mech is OP
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2016, 12:26:10 AM »
Flame Tank is watching the world burn.
I love the smell of napalm in the morning.

Why doesn't Ivy have kickback on the primary?  Are we getting rig of that (pita) mechanic?
Quote from: keith.lamothe
Opened your save. My computer wept. Switched to the ST planet and ship icons filled my screen, so I zoomed out. Game told me that it _was_ totally zoomed out. You could seriously walk from one end of the inner grav well to the other without getting your feet cold.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Flame Mech is OP
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2016, 12:28:27 AM »
Why doesn't Ivy have kickback on the primary?  Are we getting rig of that (pita) mechanic?
Different department, dunno.

I'd be glad to see kickback on mains go.

Do any of the miniguns have it, though?
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Offline Cinth

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Re: Flame Mech is OP
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2016, 12:31:17 AM »
Why doesn't Ivy have kickback on the primary?  Are we getting rig of that (pita) mechanic?
Different department, dunno.

I'd be glad to see kickback on mains go.

Do any of the miniguns have it, though?

Simple enough to test.  Nope.  Flame Tank is the only mech who has a starting primary that has kickback.   >:(
Quote from: keith.lamothe
Opened your save. My computer wept. Switched to the ST planet and ship icons filled my screen, so I zoomed out. Game told me that it _was_ totally zoomed out. You could seriously walk from one end of the inner grav well to the other without getting your feet cold.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Flame Mech is OP
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2016, 12:33:18 AM »
Yea, the Flame Tank's too cool to stand still.
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