Author Topic: Coming Back For More First Impressions: Version 9.Something  (Read 960 times)

Offline MaxAstro

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Coming Back For More First Impressions: Version 9.Something
« on: January 20, 2016, 07:47:46 AM »
Wow, I died fast.  xD

-Minibosses are insane.  Both Paragon and Reaper have attacks that I honestly can't figure out how to avoid.  Reaper can only be hit from the front, apparently, and then randomly shoots this ball of damage that perfectly homes in on you.  Paragon shoots clusters of four bullets that perfectly home in on you.  Wha?

-RedShift is cool.  However, attempting to fire your energy weapon or missiles does not cause time to advance.  This means that you can only use these weapons while moving, which is annoying as heck.

-The level of polish compared to the early versions is huge. Love the interface, love basically everything graphically and design-wise.  There are still some outdated things, though - the options still give you the choice for non-momentum based controls, and energy weapons still list energy use per second which is really a less important piece of information now than "how many times can I fire this per room?"

-Need to get in the habit of stopping movement as soon as I enter a room.  I've walked into caltrops blindly a couple times.  Ouch.

-Energy weapons that charge badly need a visual indicator of how charged they are.

-Wallmaster is a monster.  Tore me to shreds, didn't feel like I could do anything about it.  Can't imagine what he's like on Hard...

Offline Misery

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Re: Coming Back For More First Impressions: Version 9.Something
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2016, 08:05:23 AM »
Wow, I died fast.  xD

-Minibosses are insane.  Both Paragon and Reaper have attacks that I honestly can't figure out how to avoid.  Reaper can only be hit from the front, apparently, and then randomly shoots this ball of damage that perfectly homes in on you.  Paragon shoots clusters of four bullets that perfectly home in on you.  Wha?

-RedShift is cool.  However, attempting to fire your energy weapon or missiles does not cause time to advance.  This means that you can only use these weapons while moving, which is annoying as heck.

-The level of polish compared to the early versions is huge. Love the interface, love basically everything graphically and design-wise.  There are still some outdated things, though - the options still give you the choice for non-momentum based controls, and energy weapons still list energy use per second which is really a less important piece of information now than "how many times can I fire this per room?"

-Need to get in the habit of stopping movement as soon as I enter a room.  I've walked into caltrops blindly a couple times.  Ouch.

-Energy weapons that charge badly need a visual indicator of how charged they are.

-Wallmaster is a monster.  Tore me to shreds, didn't feel like I could do anything about it.  Can't imagine what he's like on Hard...

Paragon:  Best to just keep a distance and keep firing, and watch it's motions.  Homing missiles:  More sprinting!

Reaper:  Sprint!  Run circles around it.  Really, REALLY close to it (I'm usually nearly touching it while doing that).   And learn the timing of the lashing attack it does when it suddenly stops, so you can simply leap away right before it does it.  Rinse and repeat.

The minibosses are Pepisolo's work though, so I'll let him give more advice or comments on them if he'd like. 


Redshift:  That bit is a known issue; might already be fixed in the next build.

Interface/descriptions, whatever you want to call it:  Yeah, those are issues.  PARTICULARLY item descriptions.  That bit is actually a pretty big issue right now.

Energy weapons:  YES indeedy they need a charging animation or something.

Wallmaster:  Why in the bloody hell is everyone dying to this?  I actually stuck the damn thing in the floor 1-2 only category because it seems so easy.  Clearly, I need to have more of a look at it.  I'm well aware I'm not the best at judging these things (when I'm fighting it, I'm literally right in front of it the whole time).   It doesnt have a Hard mode version yet.  Just assume a difficulty level of "beats you over the head with your own face" because why WOULDNT I make it do that?

Caltrops: ARGH HITBOX

Offline MaxAstro

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Re: Coming Back For More First Impressions: Version 9.Something
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2016, 08:34:16 AM »
Minor thing: Not sure about the other directions, but if the "next floor" door is at the bottom of the screen, the next floor text is backwords (as in, flipped incorrectly - if you turn your head upside down to read it, it is still mirrored left to right).  Probably doesn't bother anyone but me.  xD

Wallmaster: I got stomped for two reasons.  1) At first I didn't realize you need to swap top to bottom.  2) If you are close enough to shoot him, timing the swaps between the bullets he sends down the center line is really hard.  I can stay alive forever from far enough back to not be able to shoot him...  He'd probably still be decently challenging if you got rid of the center line entirely.

Oh, also: I have a save file from way back before when saves got broken, and now there is no delete option.  How to fix?
« Last Edit: January 20, 2016, 08:37:29 AM by MaxAstro »

Offline Rujasu

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Re: Coming Back For More First Impressions: Version 9.Something
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2016, 09:53:08 AM »
1) At first I didn't realize you need to swap top to bottom.  2) If you are close enough to shoot him, timing the swaps between the bullets he sends down the center line is really hard.
If it ends up being too hard for new players, simply giving the Top/bottom facing attack a slightly longer cooldown should do the trick.

Offline Tolc

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Re: Coming Back For More First Impressions: Version 9.Something
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2016, 10:56:22 AM »
Oh, also: I have a save file from way back before when saves got broken, and now there is no delete option.  How to fix?

Remove the files directly (i.e. in the game folder) while Steam Cloud Sync is disabled. At least that's what I read in another thread.

Offline Misery

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Re: Coming Back For More First Impressions: Version 9.Something
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2016, 11:23:18 AM »
I figured out the Wallmaster thing!  It's a bug in the current version of the game you have.  Those purple center shots?  Not supposed to even exist.   So that's why everyone dying on it was confusing as hell.  didn't know that error was there...

It's been fixed now.

This also fixes Mirror doing the same thing.  The attack in question is actually just to keep the player from going behind these bosses, but it was firing one extra bullet with no offset, so right down the center it went.

Offline Pepisolo

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Re: Coming Back For More First Impressions: Version 9.Something
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2016, 03:50:03 PM »
Regarding Reaper. I think it's just a matter of learning the timing of its chain attack thing. When you first come up against him, your instincts are probably to keep circling and trying to get a few shots in like that, but that doesn't really work because of his scythe defenses. Instead, you need to shoot down the scythe gulley and then move before the chain attack launches, then repeat. A few people have said that they don't really have any trouble with him. A few nerfs have already gone in, so he shouldn't be that difficult at this stage.

Paragon is a bit crazy, but as long as you use the sprint key when the homing shots start flying you should be good. I haven't heard any other complaints about its difficulty yet, but I'll keep an eye on it. Thanks for the feedback.

Offline ptarth

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Re: Coming Back For More First Impressions: Version 9.Something
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2016, 03:53:45 PM »
I think part of the problem is that new players don't really need to sprint until the minibosses. I had a friend of mine play the game blind last night. They did okay, until the minibosses, to which they died horribly. They never used the sprint button on the normal enemies, and by the time they encountered a miniboss it was too late. After the first one I reminded them about sprint, but it didn't seem to help much. We played for about an hour.
Note: This post contains content that is meant to be whimsical. Any belittlement or trivialization of complex issues is only intended to lighten the mood and does not reflect upon the merit of those positions.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Coming Back For More First Impressions: Version 9.Something
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2016, 04:06:52 PM »
This also fixes Mirror doing the same thing.  The attack in question is actually just to keep the player from going behind these bosses, but it was firing one extra bullet with no offset, so right down the center it went.
FYI, I just ran into the mirror (maybe it was a mkII mirror? Anyway, first floor) in a test and it still had the center shots same as the rear-covering ones.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2016, 04:36:37 PM by Misery »
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Offline Misery

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Re: Coming Back For More First Impressions: Version 9.Something
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2016, 04:38:01 PM »
This also fixes Mirror doing the same thing.  The attack in question is actually just to keep the player from going behind these bosses, but it was firing one extra bullet with no offset, so right down the center it went.
FYI, I just ran into the mirror (maybe it was a mkII mirror? Anyway, first floor) in a test and it still had the center shots same as the rear-covering ones.



Actually I just havent sent the update yet, haha.  Had an awkwardly timed appointment and had to zoom out of the house fast.  I'll submit it now that you've reminded me.

Did I mention that the modify button needs to be elsewhere?  Ugh.  At least I'm not hitting it as often now.  I swear the forum designers put it there on purpose to drive me crazy.  It's a conspiracy, it is.

Offline MaxAstro

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Re: Coming Back For More First Impressions: Version 9.Something
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2016, 06:36:19 PM »
Oh, that explains a lot about why it was so brutal.  :)

Regarding the minibosses: I'm not sure about having attacks that you have to sprint to dodge; I know that I sprint infrequently enough that I don't even remember it's an option.  Because of the way the shots home, it feels like you should be able to dodge them but then the window of opportunity slams in your face.  I certainly didn't think to sprint in the heat of the moment, and even after the fact it didn't occur to me until it was pointed out here.  It feels a bit counter-intuitive, at least.

Actually, it might help if the shots were slightly faster than you, instead of exactly your speed.  Because of the combination of how they move with them being exactly your speed, it feels like they copy your movements rather than feeling like they are chasers you need to sprint away from.  If they were actually faster than you it might be a clue that they won't just speed up if you try sprinting.  :)  This is how my thoughts went though, so no idea if that goes for anyone else.  :)

Oh, also: The explosion graphic that many shots hit you with is very distracting, since it completely obscures your view of yourself.

Offline Billick

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Re: Coming Back For More First Impressions: Version 9.Something
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2016, 06:58:52 PM »
I was just coming to complain about wall master lol