General Category > Starward Rogue Alpha Discussion
[Alpha 0.135] First Impressions
mrhanman:
--- Quote from: Misery on November 19, 2015, 02:16:27 am ---Er, just to add something here, if you do take a screenshot of the tank thing to show... or if anyone wants to use any screenshots to point something out... please send them via PM, not by posting in the topic here. These arent supposed to be able to go public.
Sorry, almost forgot to mention that...
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Yeah, I should have thought of that. I didn't want to include a screenshot in the forum, but didn't think of PM. I'll definitely grab one on my next play through. It's a round-ish enemy that has high HP (two missiles didn't quite kill it), and it fires LOTS of homing bullets that chase you all over the screen. Luring them to crash into destructible objects was the best strategy I found, but it still wasn't enough.
--- Quote from: Misery on November 19, 2015, 06:16:51 am ---As the bosses go, well.... my entire job IS to make crazy screaming murder bots.
Though in all seriousness, I think I *did* warn that the bosses were going to be overboard right now. Each one will eventually get "lesser" versions that'll appear on lower difficulties. Eventually. That being said, they're not as hard as they may appear.
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I'm actually not sure the bosses are too hard. I really feel like I just need more practice with them. Of the 4 runs where I made it to a boss, I only saw the same boss twice. So, I've not yet played enough to figure any of them out.
One thing that would help though is more clarity for the vulnerable part of your ship. A lot of bullet hell games do this with a gem or similar glowy thing. Part of the problem was me just being unaware of this. Though it was mostly me not being comfortable with the controls. The "Wall" boss is where I noticed this the most.
--- Quote from: Misery on November 19, 2015, 02:09:40 am ---Momentum isnt there and probably wont be there because it'd affect dodging negatively when things are more "congested" with bullets. Particularly when I get around to making the more "nasty" boss patterns, very exact movement will be required to dodge the craziness they put out.
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Yeah, I really wish I could convey what I mean about that better. Maybe more playthroughs will solidify in my own mind what the hell I'm talking about.
Anyway, I guess the important part is that I want there to be more playthroughs!
EDIT: Went ahead and played a few this morning. Discovered the Miniature Black Hole, but I couldn't get it to shoot. Also, I killed a boss! The one with the bullets that bounce off the walls. Unfortunately, the bullets left over after it exploded exploded me. :'( Made a mantis suggestion to remove bullets from dead bosses.
Misery:
Ahhhh.... THAT enemy. Okay, I see.
For the time being I've no intention of changing anything about it, at least not yet. It's one of those enemies that's only difficult until you realize how to deal with it's attack. Wether it's an open area or somewhere with walls around (destructible or not) the same tactic works on it pretty much always.
Dont stray too far from it while fighting it unless you have to. Try to move around in such a way that the bullets it fires get all clumped up into one big swarm, which can then just be avoided as if it's just one huge bullet.
If you CAN get the thing into a big enough area, just keep circling it, and it really cant hit you. In a more cramped area, try to stay at a distance much of the time, but when you need to cross to the other side of the swarm, get a bit closer to the tank dude, so they move towards that direction, and then when they're in the right position, AFTERBURNERS and zoom back, behind, and past them. Rinse and repeat.
Maybe not the best explanation, but when learned I've yet to see this not work. Even against more than one, the tactic, in essence, is still the same. Even from multiple tank things the bullets still tend to end up in one big swarm. So it's all about positioning.
Bluddy:
OK I just played for about 40 minutes. Here are my impressions.
- The main thing you'll be fighting here IMO is expectations. My brain's first reaction was 'what is this thing?'. What really surprised me was that I was controlling a flying ship, but was able to stop and turn on a dime. It doesn't feel like flying, though once you cruise in a given direction, it sort of does.
- It really doesn't feel right that turning turns me in 45 degree angles without at least the animation in between. It feels ok for low res graphics to do that (I guess), but in a high res game, it doesn't seem right to me. I didn't notice it so much after a while, but once in a while it stuck out.
- I have a huge difficulty immersing myself in this environment. It's just so abstract. Is there some explanation of what's going on? Where am I? My brain needs to latch onto some narrative to try and fit it in. How does it connect with the 'end of the universe' theme?
- The space backgrounds are nice, but the tiles are too plain and repetitive. They make the game seem as if it has low quality art.
- I'm also not so fond of the look of the trash that you shoot everywhere.
- The art of the actual ships is very pretty and detailed. Same thing for some of the bosses, which are gorgeously detailed.
- Shots have no weight to them. Maybe this is a feature of shmups -- you can't have things getting pushed around all over the screen as they get hit by hundreds of bullets. When I hit enemies, it doesn't feel like there's momentum to the shots, and both Binding of Isaac and Nuclear Throne taught me to expect momentum.
- I almost missed the map. It's just so small.
- I don't like that you have the standard Arcen zoom-in/out controls. Decide on a zoom level and stick with it. I shouldn't have to manage that aspect of the game -- no other game of this sort makes me do that.
- The enemy patterns are really fun and interesting.
- I love the enemies that repeat your shots, or the ones that shoot when you shoot. They raise the stakes in a very cool way.
- The boss fights are epic. Maybe a little too crazy, though. Most rooms are fairly easy, but then I get to the boss and die. I've only beaten a boss once.
- The afterburner is really cool-looking, but I haven't found a real use for it yet (at least as far as I've gotten).
- I get that you want the icons to be easy to grasp, but I don't think it's a good ideas to use real images of 'batteries', 'money', etc. It makes the game feel cheap, like the old 'Chip's Challenge' game. It's ok to use those icons as part of the interface, but in the game world, they should look like something more true to the narrative of the game. We'll quickly learn the different resource types anyway. (Binding of Isaac gets away with it because it takes place in an imaginary world).
- You're a little bit trapped in a sort-of uncanny valley. With low-res games, you can do tiling and get away with it with minimum detail. With high-res games, the expectations are much higher -- otherwise our brains label it as a budget game. At the same time, with 2d graphics, I don't think you can easily add shadows and lighting, can you? If so, I feel like the game really needs it.
- I would like to have some enemies deaths be more meaty. Bigger explosions, or they could spin out of control and crash like you when you die. I think it would give it more of a feel of 'being there', in a place that's real. See Drox Operative for a game that did this really well.
- I understand the need to cancel out momentum for dodging, but there should still be some hovering effect going on (little waves of movement) or slowdown. Ships can't just stay exactly where they are -- they should be working hard to maintain their position in some way. Maybe also burners working in different directions to stabilize the ship in place. It feels like you're walking around with Flintstone-style feet under the ship.
Misery:
About the bit about shots having no weight: It works in Isaac, and even moreso in Nuclear Throne, because of how simplistic they are in terms of their attack patterns. NT most of all; half of the game isnt enemies that SHOOT, but instead, enemies that just run at you (one of the reasons why I recently just lost interest altogether, actually, is the boring attack patterns). And when enemies DO fire, the attacks are very, very simple, and rarely involve all that many bullets.
In most actual shmups.... as in, I cant think of one (well, a good one anyway) where this isnt the case.... there is no weight to shots whatsoever. It distorts things if it is added, and can actually create further undodgeable situations. A big no-no.
As for the momentum or direction changes, I agree that an animation of some sort would fix that up nicely.
I can sorta agree on the "uncanny valley" bit too. In all honesty, while I've liked the art in Arcen's games a whole, they do admittedly have this aspect to them at least a bit; I suspect this is one of the reasons why some people just really dont like how they look. Even when it's quality art overall. Hm, really is hard to explain. Even still though I do really like the overall aesthetic alot here.
mrhanman:
I was thinking that the motion of your ship feels like it's a person moving around instead of a ship flying around. So, would it be ridiculous to suggest the player sprite be a humanoid of some sort running around? It even looks like you're in a maze or dungeon or some enclosed area where you don't typically expect to find spaceships flying around. That may be just because there is no story or lore establishing context at all at this point.
As for Bluddy's comments about the art and aesthetic, I kind of agree with much of it, but I was waiting for more of it to be complete before commenting on the art. He also has a point about the shots having no weight, but I think sound effects can help alot with that. If you want to see a similar game with weighty shots, check out Assault Android Cactus. The bosses in particular get pretty hectic, but they still manage to make the weapons feel like weapons and not laser pointers. Not as crazy as the patterns in this game, but still pretty fancy.
I think you've got a great game here that mostly just needs more content, balance, and polish. All of which are in the works, I'm sure.
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