Author Topic: [.200] Feedback  (Read 879 times)

Offline mrhanman

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[.200] Feedback
« on: December 02, 2015, 11:48:33 PM »
Love the idle animation and the turret animation!

The shots from the secondary weapon turret are slightly off, though.  At least with the Turbo Blaster.

Also, I don't think the turret should be on the ship if there is no weapon yet? I think it should appear when the weapon is collected. Extra credit: give each weapon a unique turret graphic.  Might be too much to ask.

I haven't tried the SHMUP controls yet, but I'm liking the movement so far.  It feels much more space-ship-y.

The shadows are a very nice addition, too.

The taskbar icon appears to be... I don't really know.  A bust of an alien in a suit, maybe?

The locked door graphic is in the foreground over the ship, which seems incorrect.

The tooltips telling me my missles are full when flying over pickups is an inspired addition.  Really happy to see this.  I remember this confusing me at first, but learning it quickly enough that I forgot about it even happening.

Jumping off that awesome feature, a tooltip telling you that you lack a key for the doors would be a great extension of this feature.

The powerbars are much better looking than the hit points.  Your own hull/shield indicator is also a lot nicer, but I think it needs a tooltip or label explaining what it is.

I've seen Multibots get stuck behind "blocking" obstacles, while others in the swarm move on top of them.

Is the map updated?  It seems to be more clear than I remember.  The "green" room stands out too much and I sometimes think that is the room my ship is in simply because it's the only one with an icon.

The animated backgrounds are looking pretty awesome!  I especially like the reflections on the surface.  I can't recall who suggested it, but it looks as cool as it sounded!

Mirror is pretty exploitable.  I took her out by hiding in the bottom left corner and only had to dodge once or twice up and down slightly.  This could apply to other bosses.

Got stuck on a corner.  I was able to break free with the afterburner.  I'll include a screenshot of where in mantis.

I picked up circuit 42 and it revealed the map as expected, but it also blew open the doors to the secret room.  I would expect to still have to "missile" it open on my own.

On the two levels I've played so far, there has been a locked door, but no key.  Should keys spawn somewhere in levels with locked doors?  Could I have just missed it?

What is the difference between the first aid kit looking things and the yellow-orange energy cubes?

Not sure if this is a feature, or a bug, but after closing and restarting, I was taken directly to the "New Run" screen.  No title card or anything.  Auto-loading the previous save would be a cool option, but I think the title screen should at least require a button press.  I couldn't duplicate this, and I may have just alt-tabbed, I guess.

Every time you fire a missile, the tooltip appears telling you how to fire missiles.  This is pretty annoying after a while.  Even if the game is paused, pressing F will cause the message to appear, and when the game is unpaused, the missile fires.  Your turrets will also follow the mouse while paused and the ship hovers.  I would think everything would freeze when the game is paused and inputs would be ignored.

------------------------------

That's all for tonight.  Overall, I'd say this is a HUGE step forward.  I liked it well enough before, but y'all's vision is really starting to solidify.  I was even able to sort of forget I was beta testing and had fun with it!  Not that it was painful previously.  I just mean I wasn't able to immerse myself into it before.

More polish is still needed, of course, but it's really coming together!

I can't wait to hear what Pablo has cooking up for us!  Is there any way we can get a sneak peak of the music, or is it not far enough along for that?
« Last Edit: December 03, 2015, 01:20:53 AM by mrhanman »

Offline Misery

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Re: [.200] Feedback
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2015, 03:18:59 AM »

Mirror is pretty exploitable.  I took her out by hiding in the bottom left corner and only had to dodge once or twice up and down slightly.  This could apply to other bosses.


That one's a known problem.  I just havent decided what to do about it yet, so it remains in that form for now.  Eventually I'll come up with something.  The boss needs to be a little tougher even on Normal anyway.  Right now it's waaaaayyyyy too easy. 

I did though fix the exploit that Shrapnel Rose had, which was pretty much the same problem.  That particular solution wont work on Mirror though.  It'd just be a mess.  I do have an idea for an unpleasant surprise for anyone that tries it on Mirror or similar bosses though, if I can get the game to do it.  That just might fix it.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: [.200] Feedback
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2015, 07:15:59 AM »
That one's a known problem.  I just havent decided what to do about it yet, so it remains in that form for now.  Eventually I'll come up with something.  The boss needs to be a little tougher even on Normal anyway.  Right now it's waaaaayyyyy too easy.
Maybe add another shot to the boss that's kind of like the Persistence's bullets, but slower? If that's too harsh, maybe Zamboni bullets? Just something that makes the player have to move on some not-too-long interval.
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Offline mrhanman

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Re: [.200] Feedback
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2015, 08:03:24 AM »
Can you just an a diagonal piece of wall in the corner, practically making the corner disappear?

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: [.200] Feedback
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2015, 08:31:19 AM »
Oh, if it's just that extreme corner of the horseshoe you're hiding in there's already an alternate version of that boss room that trims that out, if I'm understanding you correctly.

Just change the mirror's <room src="Boss_RectEdged/CMP_LeftHorseshoe"/> to use CMP_LeftHorseshoeNoFlanks.

Though that might be excessive, as it trims more than just a bit of the corner.

Anyway, mrhanman, if you want to test the idea you could edit RuntimeData/Rooms/Boss_RectEdged/CMP_LeftHorseshoe.txt to replace a few of the "." (floor) tiles with "I" (wall) in those corners.

Do change it back after you're done, though, as unless one of our updates touches that file again (changing it back) you could wind up fighting real bosses in a different situation than we'd intended ;)

If the game's not being cooperative at giving you another mirror to fight, you can run it in the test chamber, adding a new .xml file in the RuntimeData/Configuration/TestChambers/ directory with the contents:

Code: [Select]
<root>
  <room_setup script="Boss_RectEdged/CMP_LeftHorseshoe" skip_normal_enemy_population="true" />
  <entity type="PlayerStandard" category="Player"/>

  <entity type="Mirror" category="Enemy" offset_from_center="-900,0"/>
</root>

And then select that new file from the test-chamber menu in-game.
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Offline mrhanman

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Re: [.200] Feedback
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2015, 09:25:58 AM »
Excellent!  I'll test that this afternoon.

Offline Misery

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Re: [.200] Feedback
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2015, 10:04:04 AM »
Something that just occurred to me:  If you're finding an exploitable spot with that boss (or any really) a screenshot showing the position to be in to make it happen would help a ton.  It suddenly occurred to me that this could be a SECOND exploitable spot, not necessarily the one I already knew about.   That'd be pretty annoying....

Offline Bluddy

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Re: [.200] Feedback
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2015, 10:09:42 AM »
Just wanted to say that I played for a few minutes and the look/feel is terrific -- really, really great.

I posted a suggestion on mantis on improving the intro and making it more engaging, as well as visually explaining how you ended up as a ship inside a ship. I don't think it'd be too hard to do.

I will now be able to focus on other gameplay details. Here's a question: does the game involve passive upgrades? I haven't come across any yet, but it might just be me. If so, there's a delicate balance to keep between upgrades and player skill. In most rogue-lites, the player has the ability to beat the whole game without upgrades, but it's very difficult. The upgrades make that goal more realistic, hopefully without completely eliminating required skill. Is this the case here?

The reason I'm asking is that shot speed and ship speed are so high to begin with, that it seems like there's no reason to even upgrade either one.It seems to me that it would make sense to have the ship start out much slower and with slower shots/reduced shot range, and have them increased with upgrades. As another example, afterburner could be a passive upgrade, which could be replaced by a teleportation device or something.

Offline mrhanman

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Re: [.200] Feedback
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2015, 10:24:42 AM »
does the game involve passive upgrades?

The reason I'm asking is that shot speed and ship speed are so high to begin with, that it seems like there's no reason to even upgrade either one

Yes, I've gotten several that increase or decrease damage and speed.  Plus other effects.  The situation now is that everything is unlocked.  The meta progression hasn't been enabled yet, so you don't get the "blue potion" you have from traditional roguelikes yet.  You start off knowing what the effects are.  This is sure to change.  As for the ship being to powerful and needing those upgrades, I think future balance passes will handle that.

Just wanted to say that I played for a few minutes and the look/feel is terrific -- really, really great.

I aggree.  The overall enjoyment of the game has increased significantly.

I posted a suggestion on mantis on improving the intro and making it more engaging, as well as visually explaining how you ended up as a ship inside a ship. I don't think it'd be too hard to do.

That reminds me, I need to suggest on mantis an intro skip button.  I've started new save games a lot, and it would be nice to be able to skip the intro entirely.

If you're finding an exploitable spot with that boss (or any really) a screenshot showing the position to be in to make it happen would help a ton. 

I could have sworn I took and posted a screenshot of this to mantis.  If not, I'll add one as soon as I can.

The new quote selection is awesome!
« Last Edit: December 03, 2015, 10:26:48 AM by mrhanman »

Offline Pepisolo

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Re: [.200] Feedback
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2015, 10:34:19 AM »
Super quick initial reaction is that the overall feel is greatly improved -- however, I actually do prefer the SHMUP controls. The hover effect helps sell the illusion of momentum. The afterburners are way, way better. Much cooler and seemingly more useful, I've been using them to zoom through gaps on bosses for the first time.

One question for anyone who knows, how do I use the non_sim_rotation_speed_rand_min to apply the rotation to a starting ship weapon fire?

Offline Misery

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Re: [.200] Feedback
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2015, 11:07:27 AM »
Super quick initial reaction is that the overall feel is greatly improved -- however, I actually do prefer the SHMUP controls. The hover effect helps sell the illusion of momentum. The afterburners are way, way better. Much cooler and seemingly more useful, I've been using them to zoom through gaps on bosses for the first time.

One question for anyone who knows, how do I use the non_sim_rotation_speed_rand_min to apply the rotation to a starting ship weapon fire?

Just so that it's known, the momentum stuff is likely going to be altered from what it currently is; the feel will likely change a bit.  There's definite issues with it right now (been talking to Chris about this) that probably are going to make a number of things genuinely undodgeable (I'm relatively certain the hard mode bosses are nigh-impossible with it currently the way it is) so it's going to be getting tweaked.  We just have to figure out which bits to tweak and how much.  Kinda expected, it's the first version of this new movement mode after all.

Offline Bluddy

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Re: [.200] Feedback
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2015, 11:23:28 AM »
Just so that it's known, the momentum stuff is likely going to be altered from what it currently is; the feel will likely change a bit.  There's definite issues with it right now (been talking to Chris about this) that probably are going to make a number of things genuinely undodgeable (I'm relatively certain the hard mode bosses are nigh-impossible with it currently the way it is) so it's going to be getting tweaked.  We just have to figure out which bits to tweak and how much.  Kinda expected, it's the first version of this new movement mode after all.

I have to agree with Pepisolo in saying -- don't be afraid to gut it. With the shadows moving beneath you and the hovering animation, I don't think we need much of this momentum in the game anymore.

Offline Pepisolo

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Re: [.200] Feedback
« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2015, 11:25:09 AM »

Just so that it's known, the momentum stuff is likely going to be altered from what it currently is; the feel will likely change a bit.  There's definite issues with it right now (been talking to Chris about this) that probably are going to make a number of things genuinely undodgeable (I'm relatively certain the hard mode bosses are nigh-impossible with it currently the way it is) so it's going to be getting tweaked.  We just have to figure out which bits to tweak and how much.  Kinda expected, it's the first version of this new movement mode after all.

Yeah, if you can tweak it to get the feel of the momentum system with the precision of the SHMUP (or close enough) that'd be great. If not, the SHMUP mode is always there to fall back on.

Edit: One thing I do like, though, is having momentum on the afterburners. I'm gonna probably see if I can tweak things so that the normal thrust is SHMUP, afterburner is momentum, to see how that works.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2015, 11:28:17 AM by Pepisolo »

Offline Misery

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Re: [.200] Feedback
« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2015, 11:54:54 AM »
It might really help alot, actually, if you guys could put feedback of that sort on Mantis so it's easy to spot; I dont have time right now to keep a conversation going or write up another email (heading to bed, I have appointments later, argh), and Chris is going to be doing some video recording soon here, so any feedback on this right now could seriously help.  Though even past making a video, it could still help alot today and just make his job alot easier.

EDIT:  Though it is already now changed quite a good bit.   It should actually feel pretty darn different when you guys get to try it.

Offline TheVampire100

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Re: [.200] Feedback
« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2015, 01:19:14 PM »
Yay, Dark Knight has been nerfed. This damage output is much better. He is still very string against regular enemies, but at least he won't kill bosses at sight.