Request for crowdsourcing help: procgen market item names (huge update 4/10!).

[Captain Jack]

Totally cool with that, yeah.  The other big descriptor of the zenith stuff would be "old" or "philosophical" or "wise."  Though philosophical and wise both also apply to the Yali and somewhat Evucks.

Well it's not like the Zenith have a monopoly on tech descriptions. That's shared with the Skylaxians and Evucks, so it becomes a matter of finding different ways to describe advanced technology. I'm imagining comparisons between Apple-style sleekness and post-singularity technological marvels, while the Evucks have black boxes.

[x4000]

Indeed, I agree on all three.

[Draco18s]

PoetryRomantic:
"{n}0 Shades of {Adjective}"

Sorry, couldn't help myself; I can't wait for the "80 Shades of Tumultuous" from the Burlust romance scene.

[x4000]

PoetryRomantic:
"{n}0 Shades of {Adjective}"

Sorry, couldn't help myself; I can't wait for the "80 Shades of Tumultuous" from the Burlust romance scene.

Hahaha, I love it.

[Draco18s]

Also filled in a few other short columns.  I've had fun going "hey X and Y can combine to make something different."  E.g. "Making {ScienceName} Funny."  Because honestly, how wouldn't watch a show about petrology if it made you laugh hysterically every time.

Or making use of the racial names to get "{Race} {Science}" as a cross-cultural insight into the other species ways of looking at a given topic.

There's some really clever pairings hidden there.

(Taking the TortureNoun column and turning it into Fiction_Tragic should be easy, but I just can't get them to work, arg.  Same with MilitaryTacticsNoun! (Oh of course... "The {MilitaryTacticsNoun} {TortureNoun}"!).

[ptarth]

Currently {n} <- random digit 1-20

Proposal

• {n} <- random digit 1:9
• {N} <- random digit 0:9
• {XN} <- random digit 0:X

If I can get a more versatile form:
Better Proposal

• {XYN} <- random digit X:Y
• {N} <- random digit 0:9

Is there really a cause for that?  I have a lot of stuff on my list to do, and adding to parsing like that seems kind of counter to things being random.  I'm cool with adding other things like {n} and {N} and such to denote different ranges if need be, because that's a quick addition.  But adding semantics and ranges and sub-parsing into those items would be more work for sure.

[/quote]

Not really.
The original {n} was a 1-20 random, but had limited use.
For example, I wanted to have Specimen #{NNNN} be anything from Specimen #00001 to Specimen #99999. With a 1-20 random field, it would have been Specimen #111111 to Specimen #2020202020.

It actually doesn't require any coding to do the simplest bit. We just add the field {N} and have its values be 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9.
That would be sufficient catch the broadest case, and is fairly trivial. So then I could just add Specimen #{N}{N}{N}{N}{N} and done.

The other {XYN} could be added if desired, but really I just wanted the ability to create an X digit long number of any value.

[x4000]

Also filled in a few other short columns.  I've had fun going "hey X and Y can combine to make something different."  E.g. "Making {ScienceName} Funny."  Because honestly, how wouldn't watch a show about petrology if it made you laugh hysterically every time.

Or making use of the racial names to get "{Race} {Science}" as a cross-cultural insight into the other species ways of looking at a given topic.

There's some really clever pairings hidden there.

(Taking the TortureNoun column and turning it into Fiction_Tragic should be easy, but I just can't get them to work, arg.  Same with MilitaryTacticsNoun! (Oh of course... "The {MilitaryTacticsNoun} {TortureNoun}"!).

Oh, super clever!  I really like how you're combining things there.  That really makes for so many combinations.

And I suppose I shouldn't have a stick up my bum about ALWAYS having the adjective or place of a race in there.  That just won't work in all cases, and I'd rather have funny names and variety over a strict adherence of that sort.  So this sort of thing that ignores the race-specific stuff is great.

Currently {n} <- random digit 1-20

Proposal

• {n} <- random digit 1:9
• {N} <- random digit 0:9
• {XN} <- random digit 0:X

If I can get a more versatile form:
Better Proposal

• {XYN} <- random digit X:Y
• {N} <- random digit 0:9

Is there really a cause for that?  I have a lot of stuff on my list to do, and adding to parsing like that seems kind of counter to things being random.  I'm cool with adding other things like {n} and {N} and such to denote different ranges if need be, because that's a quick addition.  But adding semantics and ranges and sub-parsing into those items would be more work for sure.

Not really.
The original {n} was a 1-20 random, but had limited use.
For example, I wanted to have Specimen #{NNNN} be anything from Specimen #00001 to Specimen #99999. With a 1-20 random field, it would have been Specimen #111111 to Specimen #2020202020.

It actually doesn't require any coding to do the simplest bit. We just add the field {N} and have its values be 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9.
That would be sufficient catch the broadest case, and is fairly trivial. So then I could just add Specimen #{N}{N}{N}{N}{N} and done.

The other {XYN} could be added if desired, but really I just wanted the ability to create an X digit long number of any value.
[/quote]

Okay, so how about I just redefine {n} to be 0-9.  Is that what you have in mind?  I can also have {n1} be just 1-9.  That way you can make sure that your number doesn't start with a 0 if you don't want it to.  So you could do {n1}{n}{n} to get a three-digit number that definitely is 100+, for instance.

[x4000]

Okay, this is now the definition (see original post also updated):

a. Special tag: {n} -- in this case, it places a number between 0 and 9.  I'd advise staying away from numbers and mark levels and such too much, though, because if you put that in there players will assume it has meaning when it does not.  If you want to say "A Collection of {n} Poems," that's a good use for this tag.

aa. Special tag: {n1} -- in this case, it places a number between 1 and 9.  Same notes as above.  Note that you can chain these together to make interesting longer numbers.

ab. Special tag: {nn} -- in this case, it places a number between 1 and 99.  A bit more flexibility.

ac. Special tag: {nnn} -- in this case, it places a number between 1 and 999.  A bit more flexibility.

ad. Special tag: {nnnn} -- in this case, it places a number between 1 and 9999.  Yet more flexibility.

[x4000]

Okay, you guys were basically using these tags without them existing, so it was throwing errors.  I've now made it so that the following exist, and I've made corrections all throughout the spreadsheet and it all works.

d. Special tag: {OurRacePlural} -- This is the name of the race that made it.  So if it's an acutian thing, this will always say "Acutians".  If it's peltian, then it will say "Peltians" and so on.

e. Special tag: {OurRaceSingular} -- Same deal as above, except that this is singular.  So if it's an acutian thing, it says "Acutian".

f. Special tag: {OurRandomRaceLeader} -- Each race has three possible leaders, of which only one is in the game at a given time.  However, each is a good source of racial names, right?  So this picks one of the three at random.

g. Special tag: {OtherRacePlural} -- This is the name of any other race EXCEPT the race that made it.  And it's the plural version, as you might guess.  Note that multiple calls to "OtherRace<Whatever>" in an item name will NOT return the same race each time.  It may or may not.  Best bet is to only use one of the "OtherRace<Whatever>" tags in a given name.

h. Special tag: {OtherRaceSingular} -- Same deal as above, except that this is singular.  Once again, any race EXCEPT ours.  And no consistency.

i. Special tag: {OtherRandomRaceLeader} -- Each race has three possible leaders, of which only one is in the game at a given time.  This picks the name of any leader that is NOT from our race.  Again no consistency.

[x4000]

So!  The fruits of everyone's labor, as of now.  All of the stuff is seemingly valid -- it's no longer throwing error messages on anything, anyway.  I had to correct a lot of stuff, but it was all pretty minor and didn't take that long.  It also led to some new tools, as my last post notes.  Anyway, you can see just how much more variety (and quality!) there is in the created names compared to what was there just earlier today.

Holy smokes folks, this is amazing.

[Captain Jack]

So!  The fruits of everyone's labor, as of now.  All of the stuff is seemingly valid -- it's no longer throwing error messages on anything, anyway.  I had to correct a lot of stuff, but it was all pretty minor and didn't take that long.  It also led to some new tools, as my last post notes.  Anyway, you can see just how much more variety (and quality!) there is in the created names compared to what was there just earlier today.

Holy smokes folks, this is amazing.

Skylaxian Military_Components:        Civilized Electromagnetic Sensors
Skylaxian Military_Components:        Honorable Sound Couplings

Hmm...  Well, it's a work in progress. I'll finish up the adjectives tomorrow.

[ptarth]

Some entries that made me laugh.

Evuck ConsumerProduct_Hygiene:         Quarantine Zone Cream
Yali Military_PersonalBioAugments:        Thermal Buttocks Replacement
Peltian Military_PersonalWeapons:        Anti-Air Nuclear Bayonet

[/quote]


{OtherRacePlural} and {OtherRaceSingular} were my next wishes.

On (an)other issue(s) Chris:

• I take it I haven't managed to convince you in the necessity of {GenericPrepositionalPhrase}?
  No worries, either way, I've been working on cleaning up my frames, discarding, adapting, etc.
• Oh, also, did you check the conjugations of the Alien Race Plurals? I made them up a while back and never found out if they matched what you were thinking?
• Are you wanting {Periodical_Propaganda} to be pro-propaganda? I had the basics of some Anti-{OtherRace} Forms and they were nuked.
• Would changing {Adjective} to {RacialAdjective} interfere with things?
• I didn't notice you had fixed up the {n} system in your flurry of posts. That sounds great. {OurRacialLeaderName}{ThankfulPhrase}.
• Tag plurality? Should we leave it alone or should we make all tags singular? (e.g., BoarinesPlaceTypes => BoarinesPlaceType =? BoarinePlaceType)?
• {BodyParts} I left the Groin, Buttocks, Nipple in the list. I'm not sure if you want to avoid the potential controversy. The humor is prevalent. On the other hand, I'm also not sure what the secondary sexual characteristics of the Spire are either.
• Noun Agreement/Plurality. Looking through the lists we are having major issues with noun plurality, either the nouns are plural and are in singular frames or vice versa or needing an appropriate article (e.g., 657 Tales of Wonderfully Bulky Cave(s), A Life Lived In (a/the) Citadel(s)). Care to make a Word of God Statement to direct behavior?

[Draco18s]

Oh, super clever!  I really like how you're combining things there.  That really makes for so many combinations.

And I suppose I shouldn't have a stick up my bum about ALWAYS having the adjective or place of a race in there.  That just won't work in all cases, and I'd rather have funny names and variety over a strict adherence of that sort.  So this sort of thing that ignores the race-specific stuff is great.

Oh quite.  I also split up the materials column into two, as "Reinforced Water Bolts" didn't make a whole lot of sense.  So I broke out the solids into their own field, {StructuralMaterialNoun}.

{OtherRacePlural} and {OtherRaceSingular} were my next wishes.

Mine too.  On my way home I was like "shit, does {RacialName} mean 'race that made this' or 'the name of a race' or 'name of an individaul of that race'?"

[Pumpkin]

On the other hand, I'm also not sure what the secondary sexual characteristics of the Spire are either.

Who told you they have two genders? Maybe only one, maybe more than two...
I'm sure it would be interesting to have more clues about this for each race. I mean, just clues, not details. Look, we already know that Thoraxians have Queens and that the workers/warriors are certainly asexual. And there are the robots that "reproduce" themselves by construction. But for the others, we can only make suppositions and bet they have males and females.

I would be very interested about Zenith and Neinzul reproduction.

Alternatively, where to post this kind of books?
"About {OtherRacePlural} Sexuality"
"Concerning {OtherRacePlural} Reproduction"
"Courtship Rituals Among the {OtherRacePlural}"

[x4000]

Skylaxian Military_Components:        Civilized Electromagnetic Sensors
Skylaxian Military_Components:        Honorable Sound Couplings

Hmm...  Well, it's a work in progress. I'll finish up the adjectives tomorrow.

Sure, it's not like it's done.  But it is coming along well.  I think humor is a good component to have in these, though.  They make me look forward to seeing the new market items, because the items might make me laugh.  With that in mind, I added "Self-Righteous" to the Skylaxian list.  Honorable Sound Couplings just sounds kind of odd, but Self-Righteous Sound Couplings is freaking hilarious to me.

Some entries that made me laugh.

Evuck ConsumerProduct_Hygiene:         Quarantine Zone Cream
Yali Military_PersonalBioAugments:        Thermal Buttocks Replacement
Peltian Military_PersonalWeapons:        Anti-Air Nuclear Bayonet

[/quote]

Oh goodness, I haven't laughed that hard in a while.  We need to start compiling a "best of" market names list.  In fact, I'm starting to make a personal list now.

{OtherRacePlural} and {OtherRaceSingular} were my next wishes.

Nice.

{OtherRacePlural} and {OtherRaceSingular} were my next wishes.

• I take it I haven't managed to convince you in the necessity of {GenericPrepositionalPhrase}?
  No worries, either way, I've been working on cleaning up my frames, discarding, adapting, etc.

[/quote]

I didn't personally have a use for it, so I moved it.  But if you want to use it in stuff, by all means please do so.  I'm not saying "no that can't be there" on anything (that isn't profane or just outright out of character for the game or misleading about game mechanics).

• Oh, also, did you check the conjugations of the Alien Race Plurals? I made them up a while back and never found out if they matched what you were thinking?

I missed that.  But the values for those are presently:

<ln id="Race_Acutians_Name">Acutian</ln>
<ln id="Race_Acutians_NamePlural">Acutians</ln>
<ln id="Race_Acutians_NameOfUnknownLeader">Unknown CEO</ln>
<ln id="Race_Andors_Name">Andor</ln>
<ln id="Race_Andors_NamePlural">Andors</ln>
<ln id="Race_Andors_NameOfUnknownLeader">Unknown Minister</ln>
<ln id="Race_Boarines_Name">Boarine</ln>
<ln id="Race_Boarines_NamePlural">Boarines</ln>
<ln id="Race_Boarines_NameOfUnknownLeader">Unknown Regent</ln>
<ln id="Race_Burlusts_Name">Burlust</ln>
<ln id="Race_Burlusts_NamePlural">Burlusts</ln>
<ln id="Race_Burlusts_NameOfUnknownLeader">Unknown Warlord</ln>
<ln id="Race_Evucks_Name">Evuck</ln>
<ln id="Race_Evucks_NamePlural">Evucks</ln>
<ln id="Race_Evucks_NameOfUnknownLeader">Unknown Councillor</ln>
<ln id="Race_Peltians_Name">Peltian</ln>
<ln id="Race_Peltians_NamePlural">Peltians</ln>
<ln id="Race_Peltians_NameOfUnknownLeader">Unknown Speaker</ln>
<ln id="Race_Thoraxians_Name">Thoraxian</ln>
<ln id="Race_Thoraxians_NamePlural">Thoraxians</ln>
<ln id="Race_Thoraxians_NameOfUnknownLeader">Unknown Queen</ln>
<ln id="Race_Skylaxians_Name">Skylaxian</ln>
<ln id="Race_Skylaxians_NamePlural">Skylaxians</ln>
<ln id="Race_Skylaxians_NameOfUnknownLeader">Unknown Senator</ln>
<ln id="Race_Zenith_Name">Zenith</ln>
<ln id="Race_Zenith_NamePlural">Zenith</ln>
<ln id="Race_Zenith_NameOfUnknownLeader">Unknown Golem</ln>
<ln id="Race_Neinzul_Name">Neinzul</ln>
<ln id="Race_Neinzul_NamePlural">Neinzul</ln>
<ln id="Race_Neinzul_NameOfUnknownLeader">Unknown Youngling</ln>
<ln id="Race_Spire_Name">Spire</ln>
<ln id="Race_Spire_NamePlural">Spire</ln>
<ln id="Race_Spire_NameOfUnknownLeader">Unknown Spirecraft</ln>
<ln id="Race_Krolin_Name">Krolin</ln>
<ln id="Race_Krolin_NamePlural">Krolin</ln>
<ln id="Race_Krolin_NameOfUnknownLeader">Unknown Master</ln>
<ln id="Race_Fenyn_Name">Fenyn</ln>
<ln id="Race_Fenyn_NamePlural">Fenyn</ln>
<ln id="Race_Fenyn_NameOfUnknownLeader">Unknown Cardinal</ln>
<ln id="Race_Yali_Name">Yali</ln>
<ln id="Race_Yali_NamePlural">Yali</ln>
<ln id="Race_Yali_NameOfUnknownLeader">Unknown King</ln>

• Are you wanting {Periodical_Propaganda} to be pro-propaganda? I had the basics of some Anti-{OtherRace} Forms and they were nuked.

I'm open to either.  I probably nuked your other ones because you were doing "anti-ourselves" propaganda, and so when I saw the wrong form I deleted it.  I later renamed RacePlural to be OurRacelPlural since I figured that was not clear.  Then later I figured "what the heck, I'll add the OtherRace" stuff.  But by then I probably already nuked your entries.  Sorry about that!

• Would changing {Adjective} to {RacialAdjective} interfere with things?

Yeah, that's a good idea.  Much clearer that way, especially for new folks.  I've changed that, as well as RacialPlace.  I'll update the documentation shortly.

• I didn't notice you had fixed up the {n} system in your flurry of posts. That sounds great. {OurRacialLeaderName}{ThankfulPhrase}.

My pleasure!

• Tag plurality? Should we leave it alone or should we make all tags singular? (e.g., BoarinesPlaceTypes => BoarinesPlaceType =? BoarinePlaceType)?

Please change no tags that are official ones!  The game looks for those based off of internal enum values, and if you "fix" those, you break them.   The internal enum uses whatever the tag says, and it's usually plural, so the naming makes little sense semantically but is how the game combines the text to find it.  It's not seen by users anyhow.

As for tags that are custom, I think keeping things singular does make good sense, and I made a lot of such adjustments.  But again that's just a "for our OCD pleasures" sort of thing.

• {BodyParts} I left the Groin, Buttocks, Nipple in the list. I'm not sure if you want to avoid the potential controversy. The humor is prevalent. On the other hand, I'm also not sure what the secondary sexual characteristics of the Spire are either.

Yeah... not to be prudish, but some people will be playing with their kids around (I will be).  I removed Groin and Nipple, but left Buttocks.  Kids have a monopoly on potty humor as it is.   I also added a variety of body parts from other kinds of animals (noted in a comment on the sheet).

• Noun Agreement/Plurality. Looking through the lists we are having major issues with noun plurality, either the nouns are plural and are in singular frames or vice versa or needing an appropriate article (e.g., 657 Tales of Wonderfully Bulky Cave(s), A Life Lived In (a/the) Citadel(s)). Care to make a Word of God Statement to direct behavior?

This is one of those situations where we really run into the limits of computer-generated stuff.  I would say that all of the place names for the races should be singular, and anything that references {RacialPlace} should do so with "the" instead of "a" or "an."  Because "the" or "that" or whatever work with pretty much anything.

Tales of The Wonderfully Bulky Cave
Tales of That Wonderfully Bulky Cave
A Life Lived In The Citadel
A Life Lived In That Citadel

If there is interest in having two lists -- one singular and one plural -- for each race, then feel free to set that up and I can make the game recognize those.  The tag would be {RacialPlacePlural}.  And the columns would be the same as the regular place names, but with Plural at the end.  I'd suggest keeping the plural column for each race right next to the singular one, rather than having all the singulars and then all the plurals.