General Category > Stars Beyond Reach... This World Is Mine
Early 2015: Unnamed Terrestrial 4X...
eRe4s3r:
--- Quote from: wwwhhattt on May 30, 2014, 09:30:05 am ---The problem here isn't that computer games should be above board games, but that all the really neat stuff that would happen in a 4x boardgame happens between the players - all the lies, backstabbing and diplomacy that aren't regulated by sets of rules but by the players' creativity. Any computer game that tries to be a board game is going to miss out on what makes most board games worth playing.
--- End quote ---
Yes and this is pretty much what I meant with that PC games should not take inspiration from board games. Any system that requires advanced AI or player interaction to succeed (as opposed to good, scripted writing of an NPC/Race) is imo doomed to fail in a pc game. Because even if we HAD real players, we would be stuck having to use the game systems for interaction and not the human interaction that makes board games what they are. I know there are some good 4x board games, but I find all of them require FAR too much PLAYER interaction and have barely if any abstraction mechanics for larger scope or indeed, progression into (potential) infinity.
In the end a 4x game on the pc needs to have systems in place to progress *gameplay*. If I do the same thing on round 1 that I do on round 500 then the game FAILED as a 4x imo. There is no progression. Which is really what I mean with that. (Aside from stagnant victory conditions). It also needs progression in terms of whatever I am playing needs to have a logical reason to have different gameplay in turn 500 than in turn 1. This can be done through MANY ways, like an evolving organism that is your empire, or you gain access to new technology like FTL travel. Or the CHAOS WARP from Warhammer40k....
Well, and @Topper
TLF is clearly not a 4x game ;)
Anyhow, to sum up... the first successful space 4x (to me) will be one merging RPG and 4X and tactical combat together perfectly. I actually played something like that that came very close not so much in terms of 4x, but in terms of what I think could be a good combat system and rpg system in a 4x game (Legend of the Galactic Heroes , JAP only) Yes, it's a game, not just an (superb) epic space opera anime.
I absolutely adored how they handled HUGE fleet engagements in such a way that you yourself and your admirals were on the field, but you commanded FLEETS and what they do, not individual ships. But individual ships each have a chance to be hit/destroyed so huge engagements end up with your fleets slowly dismantling in front of your eyes and giant laser barrages reflecting from your flagship.... where you could try to lure in enemy fleets by presenting your main fleet as target and having your attack fleets do dangerous flanking moves that give you damage and attack bonus since space ships are unevenely armored.
Aklyon:
--- Quote from: topper on May 29, 2014, 07:28:21 pm ---
--- Quote from: Shrugging Khan on May 29, 2014, 05:32:51 pm ---Oh, and Dwarf Fortress...so much of it. I'm not 100% positive, but I suspect my victories in DF weren't all that many either.
--- End quote ---
What does it even mean to win DF?
In DF, you have fun until you have !FUN!, or you succumb to FPS death. There is no winning except at setting your own arbitrary goals.
--- End quote ---
Well, the Hall of Legends could be considered 'winning', if you include out of game winning.
ptarth:
Winning in DF is achieved by having something happen that makes a good story. The quality of your win is determined by how many people hearing the story say, "I have to try that game." Previous DF wins include: BoatMurdered, Mermaid Farming, Sea Serpent Farming, and The Elf Dwarf King.
ptarth:
The current game framework allows for some opportunities to explore a more classical science-fiction literature backstory. I hate to do it, but I present a work of fan-fiction to illustrate the point, rather than try to explain it another way.
--- Code: ---They came for us in the night, and we were Taken.
Our vast armadas, our advanced technology, and our people's bravery meant nothing to them.
They took from us, our empire, our homes, and our memories.
We can't remember who they were or what they looked like, but we know they Took us.
We can't remember our previous lives, but we know we had them.
We can't remember going to the stars, but we were there.
These and many other memories are gone from our minds, Taken by Them.
But we remember who we were. We once had an empire stretching across the
galaxy, our cultural a beacon of light against the galactic void, and our
power a testament against the ages.
We are now a remanent planted upon an alien surface.
500 million adults of breeding age, 250 million children to replace them, and 250 million elders to guide us.
There are 1 billion of us here, a testament to the Their precision.
We have discovered others here. Strange creatures.
Creatures that were also stolen from their lives.
They fight over resources, land, and politics.
They have forgotten they were Taken.
They have forgotten who they were.
They have lost the stars, their honor, and their spirit.
They are content to squabble here in the mud with others.
We have not.
We remember.
And we will return.
We don't know who They are.
We don't know where They are.
They may even be here among us.
But it doesn't matter.
We will survive, we will rebuild, we will conquer,and we will unite.
And then, we will return.
We will find Them, and we will have our justice.
--- End code ---
This would provide an explanation of how the game situation came to be. It would provide a compelling motivation for the player.
It would have to be adjusted per the player's starting race.
As to what really happened, you have tons of options, each of which might be true in any one particular game. Perhaps finding this out may be a game objective itself. Some of these options include:
* They were kidnapped from their people, most of their memories wiped, and setup here as an experiment.
* They were kidnapped, their people wiped out, most of their memories wiped, and setup here as an experiment.
* They were rescued, their people wiped out, most of their memories wiped, and setup here as an reservation.
* They are the creators of the experiment, who had most of their memories wiped, and setup here as a control group.
* They are volunteers from of a Federation, who had most of their memories wiped, and setup here as a experiment.
* They are laboratory creations with artificial memories, setup here as an experiment.
* They are figments of the imagination, created by a Dreamer/Author from another dimension, setup here to tell a story.
* They are part of a computer simulations, setup here as an experiment.
* They are a group mind that has gone insane and this is just how their world evolved, however unlikely.
* Their minds have been taken over by a mind-controlling species, and this is the illusion that they perceive. Reality can be whatever you want.
Teal_Blue:
--- Quote from: ptarth on June 13, 2014, 05:02:28 pm ---The current game framework allows for some opportunities to explore a more classical science-fiction literature backstory. I hate to do it, but I present a work of fan-fiction to illustrate the point, rather than try to explain it another way.
--- Code: ---They came for us in the night, and we were Taken.
Our vast armadas, our advanced technology, and our people's bravery meant nothing to them.
They took from us, our empire, our homes, and our memories.
We can't remember who they were or what they looked like, but we know they Took us.
We can't remember our previous lives, but we know we had them.
We can't remember going to the stars, but we were there.
These and many other memories are gone from our minds, Taken by Them.
But we remember who we were. We once had an empire stretching across the
galaxy, our cultural a beacon of light against the galactic void, and our
power a testament against the ages.
We are now a remanent planted upon an alien surface.
500 million adults of breeding age, 250 million children to replace them, and 250 million elders to guide us.
There are 1 billion of us here, a testament to the Their precision.
We have discovered others here. Strange creatures.
Creatures that were also stolen from their lives.
They fight over resources, land, and politics.
They have forgotten they were Taken.
They have forgotten who they were.
They have lost the stars, their honor, and their spirit.
They are content to squabble here in the mud with others.
We have not.
We remember.
And we will return.
We don't know who They are.
We don't know where They are.
They may even be here among us.
But it doesn't matter.
We will survive, we will rebuild, we will conquer,and we will unite.
And then, we will return.
We will find Them, and we will have our justice.
--- End code ---
This would provide an explanation of how the game situation came to be. It would provide a compelling motivation for the player.
It would have to be adjusted per the player's starting race.
As to what really happened, you have tons of options, each of which might be true in any one particular game. Perhaps finding this out may be a game objective itself. Some of these options include:
* They were kidnapped from their people, most of their memories wiped, and setup here as an experiment.
* They were kidnapped, their people wiped out, most of their memories wiped, and setup here as an experiment.
* They were rescued, their people wiped out, most of their memories wiped, and setup here as an reservation.
* They are the creators of the experiment, who had most of their memories wiped, and setup here as a control group.
* They are volunteers from of a Federation, who had most of their memories wiped, and setup here as a experiment.
* They are laboratory creations with artificial memories, setup here as an experiment.
* They are figments of the imagination, created by a Dreamer/Author from another dimension, setup here to tell a story.
* They are part of a computer simulations, setup here as an experiment.
* They are a group mind that has gone insane and this is just how their world evolved, however unlikely.
* Their minds have been taken over by a mind-controlling species, and this is the illusion that they perceive. Reality can be whatever you want.
--- End quote ---
I really like your fan-fic, could you tell me what the title is and where i could read it?
:)
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