General Category > Stars Beyond Reach... This World Is Mine

Early 2015: Unnamed Terrestrial 4X...

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Draco18s:

--- Quote from: Teal_Blue on May 29, 2014, 10:07:41 pm ---quick question because i haven't played Dwarf Fortress, but what kinds of things are there to do, that could be way cool if brought to either TLF or the New 4X?

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147 types of rock
7 types of coal
83 type of ore
26 species of tree
9 species of fungus that can be used as wood
and 397 kinds of insanity

Teal_Blue:

--- Quote from: Draco18s on May 29, 2014, 10:21:29 pm ---
--- Quote from: Teal_Blue on May 29, 2014, 10:07:41 pm ---quick question because i haven't played Dwarf Fortress, but what kinds of things are there to do, that could be way cool if brought to either TLF or the New 4X?

--- End quote ---

147 types of rock
7 types of coal
83 type of ore
26 species of tree
9 species of fungus that can be used as wood
and 397 kinds of insanity

--- End quote ---


Of course, i should have known!  :)  Haha, i have always wanted to try DF but was a little itimidated by it. I will have to give it a go anyway.

eRe4s3r:

--- Quote from: Teal_Blue on May 29, 2014, 04:21:59 pm ---Well... i feel flattered that you read my little idea. Though, perhaps as you said if the limitation is just to take 'ALL' of the spaces on the map. Then a good 4X should strive to do different things, yes?

Do you like diplomatic wins?
Do you like draws? (seen in chess, but not so much 4X
Do you want something different? Like maybe a co-habitation, or a peace treaty where two or more sides co-exist in relative peace?
Do we want an influence win, where our cultural heritage, or the heritage of the opponent takes the game?
Wouldn't it be cool if there were 27 different ways to win a game?  :)

Or maybe something completely different?  I was thinking what if a game didn't have to win? Maybe its played just for the interest and elegance of the play? Haha, well... maybe chess could be that way, huh? Or maybe Go, or Soduku, I don't know about a 4x just playing for the elegance of its moves, although, that could be very cool to try to do, yes?

-Teal

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Someone needs to do a prototype to play and test the idea first ,) I am not convinced it would produce a game that'd sell in any kind of quantity or be fun to play for more than 1 or 2 rounds... at least when we talk about a space 4x game. There are TBS games that do things (slightly) better... XCOM for example

But yes, in the end a 4x game in space at least, is imo doing something very very wrong when it's main victory condition is "kill everything and/or ally with everyone left". These games should be more about survival and strategy having deep impact on the gameplay itself. In theory, a good space 4x game is not so much about expansion, as it is about spheres of influence and allegiances. About common goals, unique synergies between races creating opening to new victory conditions etc. About immersion and progression.

So yes, in a way there really need to be "27" victory conditions... but they should not be all obtainable, many of them should be mutually exclusive, and all of them should require either diplomacy and synergistic race interaction or military oppression and conquering of worlds and manging the resulting dissent across the space empire.

A good 4x game, gives you the choice to do things that lead to new ways to win the game. And I am not talking about bigger guns, but rather technologies that are extremely rare and difficult to obtain, say, like access to a alternate dimension that brings in new enemies and random (as in, -1- major randomly chosen) threat that gives player reason to unite races under 1 banner or try to take it solo if he so wishes.

Imo no inspiration AT ALL should be taken from GO/Chess/AnyBoardgame

Because this is where all space 4x games fail, they do not innovate the core idea. They all clone MOO and add fluff, but at the core, it's still MOO (Paint galaxy your color).. which MOO already did perfectly (more or less)

I guess... maybe.. I want a 4x RPG ? ;P

wwwhhattt:

--- Quote from: eRe4s3r on May 29, 2014, 04:13:10 pm ---No matter how much fluff there is between this, if the end-goal is to paint the galaxy/map in my color, the 4x fails at some basic level imo

Namely the level that is supposed to put computer games above "board games" ;)

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The problem here isn't that computer games should be above board games, but that all the really neat stuff that would happen in a 4x boardgame happens between the players - all the lies, backstabbing and diplomacy that aren't regulated by sets of rules but by the players' creativity. Any computer game that tries to be a board game is going to miss out on what makes most board games worth playing.

Having said that, there are neat ideas in board games that could be used. Risk Legacy is based around players permanently changing the game over the first 15 games - cards get ripped up, players write on the board, rules get changed - it'd be neat to see a game where you can not only change the rules in play while you're in the game, but where those changes affect all your other playthroughs (although there would never be the same sense of permanence when you can delete the savefile and start from scratch). Dunno if that would work here mind.

And because you all love 43 minute videos of god knows how many guys playing ridiculously huge games: http://www.shutupandsitdown.com/blog/post/susd-play-goddamn-megagame/

Sorry if this comes over as dead evangelical, my initial reaction was to type BURN THE HERETIC over and over.

topper:

--- Quote from: Teal_Blue on May 29, 2014, 10:49:20 pm ---Of course, i should have known!  :)  Haha, i have always wanted to try DF but was a little itimidated by it. I will have to give it a go anyway.

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If you download the Starter Pack (formerly the Lazy Newb Pack), then it simplifies setting up the game how you want it and automatically includes some texture packs that make the game a little easier to comprehend for new players (I use Phoebus).


--- Quote from: eRe4s3r on May 30, 2014, 12:16:56 am ---I guess... maybe.. I want a 4x RPG ? ;P

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Isn't that The Last Federation? Sort of?  ;D

On topic:
The ideas look cool, I would love to see the Arcen design document at some point. But they probably want to keep that internal until the game is close to complete.

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