Author Topic: Early 2015: Unnamed Terrestrial 4X...  (Read 16063 times)

Offline topper

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Re: Early 2015: Unnamed Terrestrial 4X...
« Reply #30 on: May 26, 2014, 12:54:30 PM »
Anyhow, the prototype design notes have really grown quite a lot since my last post here, so I'm getting increasingly excited about this.  I think I said this before, but basically think Risk meets Civilization meets AI War.

This sounds great, and the multi-threading part too. If the turns are semi-simultaneous, then the AI combat thread could even be calculating while the player is making their move, and then the execution could really be simultaneous with no waiting.

So the game is player vs AI with no PvP, but I would assume with cooperative multiplayer in a similar fashion to AI War.

Are there multiple AI factions in the game at once? Is diplomacy involved, or is the AI always out to kill you?

Offline x4000

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Re: Early 2015: Unnamed Terrestrial 4X...
« Reply #31 on: May 26, 2014, 01:17:27 PM »
This sounds great, and the multi-threading part too. If the turns are semi-simultaneous, then the AI combat thread could even be calculating while the player is making their move, and then the execution could really be simultaneous with no waiting.

Sort of, yes.  A lot of it will kind of be round-based within phases.  Though that's something that will need experimentation in the prototype.  It may be that for the placement and reinforce phases, all moves are "blind" and simultaneous.  So every player (AI and otherwise) sees what they and their allies are doing, but not what any enemy or neutral parties are doing.  That would let everyone do everything at once, no waiting, and at the same time not have anyone waiting to see what their opponents do before they do anything.  We'll see what feels best.

So the game is player vs AI with no PvP, but I would assume with cooperative multiplayer in a similar fashion to AI War.

Right, precisely.  The co-op here should work super well, I think.  It's the most conducive design for good co-op that we've had since AI War, in my opinion.  Some games are just naturally better suited to it than others.

Are there multiple AI factions in the game at once? Is diplomacy involved, or is the AI always out to kill you?

Yes multiple factions, and yes diplomacy.  Part of having no PVP means that diplomacy with the AIs can actually be more robust than a lot of comparable games.
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Offline Aklyon

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Re: Early 2015: Unnamed Terrestrial 4X...
« Reply #32 on: May 26, 2014, 01:23:38 PM »
Is the diplomacy going to involve tech trading?

Offline x4000

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Re: Early 2015: Unnamed Terrestrial 4X...
« Reply #33 on: May 26, 2014, 01:27:12 PM »
Is the diplomacy going to involve tech trading?

To be honest I have not gotten into the design of the diplomacy yet, as that's a layer on top of the base actions the game can take.  I've mainly been focused on the base game mechanics and the tech tree.  I have a number of ideas on how diplomacy could work, but I'm not sure which way is best yet, because a lot of that depends on how the prototypes turn out and evolve.  I would be surprised if tech trading were not a part of it, though.
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Offline wwwhhattt

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Re: Early 2015: Unnamed Terrestrial 4X...
« Reply #34 on: May 26, 2014, 03:39:20 PM »
We're thinking of calling this Ashes to Ascent, now.
Something about that doesn't sound quite right. Maybe it makes more sense when you know what the game's about, and now that I've thought about it the whole 'rise from the ashes' thing is obvious, but at the first impression it just seemed like two unconnected words thrown together.

Maybe it's just me, but I think some slight rewording would go a long way - both for sense and catchiness (not that I envy anyone who has to think up titles).
« Last Edit: May 26, 2014, 03:43:32 PM by wwwhhattt »

Offline x4000

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Re: Early 2015: Unnamed Terrestrial 4X...
« Reply #35 on: May 26, 2014, 03:44:44 PM »
Hmm.  We've been throwing around a lot of other titles, and the only two that really stand out other than that are Fortitude and Second Ascent.

"Ashes to Ashes" is also a saying, and "Ashes to Ascent" is a play on that.
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Offline Aklyon

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Re: Early 2015: Unnamed Terrestrial 4X...
« Reply #36 on: May 26, 2014, 03:45:29 PM »
Ashes to Ascent sounds interesting to me.

Offline Shrugging Khan

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Re: Early 2015: Unnamed Terrestrial 4X...
« Reply #37 on: May 26, 2014, 04:02:47 PM »
I'll chime in as another to whom "Ashes to Ascent" sounds wrong. I'm a non-native speaker (albeit with a background in languages), so maybe that plays a role.

Doesn't have much of a ring to it, even less than TLF (which sounds stale), and AI War (which sound very plain). Bionic Dues was a weird name, but acceptable. But Ashes to Ascent...maybe it's because the initial alliteration gives way to two completely different word endings, especially with the juxtaposition of the soft-sounding sh with the rather sharpish sc. The nt ending on Ascent also makes the pronunciation of the whole affair a bit weird, as far as cadence goes.

In short, it doesn't go well over my tongue. Maybe yours are different, way over on the other side of that pond.
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Offline Coppermantis

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Re: Early 2015: Unnamed Terrestrial 4X...
« Reply #38 on: May 26, 2014, 06:19:50 PM »
I'll chime in as another to whom "Ashes to Ascent" sounds wrong. I'm a non-native speaker (albeit with a background in languages), so maybe that plays a role.

Doesn't have much of a ring to it, even less than TLF (which sounds stale), and AI War (which sound very plain). Bionic Dues was a weird name, but acceptable. But Ashes to Ascent...maybe it's because the initial alliteration gives way to two completely different word endings, especially with the juxtaposition of the soft-sounding sh with the rather sharpish sc. The nt ending on Ascent also makes the pronunciation of the whole affair a bit weird, as far as cadence goes.

In short, it doesn't go well over my tongue. Maybe yours are different, way over on the other side of that pond.

I'm a native speaker and I agree with everything here. It just sounds quite weird for a game title. In terms of syllables, It's also quite lengthy, though that wouldn't be a huge problem except for the fact that the two words are quite similar but just different enough that it sounds as if one is trying to be the other but isn't, if that makes sense. It doesn't flow as well as, say, Skyward Collapse, Bionic Dues, Shattered Haven, or AI War: Fleet Command do.
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Offline doctorfrog

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Re: Early 2015: Unnamed Terrestrial 4X...
« Reply #39 on: May 26, 2014, 08:11:41 PM »
I'm exactly the type of guy who things like titles, fonts, colors, and other details just grate against, and I think the title is the last thing I'm super concerned about at the moment. "Ashes to Ascent" sounds like a possible subtitle to me, with a little work. As in, "Graveyard of Empires: Ascent from the Ashes." (Not a proposal, by the way.)

Projects have working titles for a reason: because it's not important right now.

Offline Teal_Blue

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Re: Early 2015: Unnamed Terrestrial 4X...
« Reply #40 on: May 26, 2014, 09:27:08 PM »
Hmmm.... the Ashes to Ascent sounds ok by me. The Ashes to Ashes that inspired the other title sounds even as interesting. As in what happens if i don't pull off saving the universe... but really other than the title, which is purely at your call, i just wanted to chime in and say i like what you were saying about how the game will (with testing) work.  I really am interested in the tile states and type that you mentioned.


Offline topper

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Re: Early 2015: Unnamed Terrestrial 4X...
« Reply #41 on: May 26, 2014, 10:03:56 PM »
I'm not trying to be crass, but part of why Ashes to Ascent feels a bit weird is that the beginning of each word is As to As, which is a little harsh, and the shortened acronym would then be AtoA?  :-\

There seem to be quite a few things out there with Ascendant in the name, are you going for a name starting with A again?

I also recommend building around diplomacy instead of spreading it on top, see Star Ruler, where diplomatic options never really are that great. But I'm sure you guys can do a great job!

Offline Lancefighter

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Re: Early 2015: Unnamed Terrestrial 4X...
« Reply #42 on: May 26, 2014, 10:45:41 PM »
Clearly you should be aiming for a 'Ascent from Ashes' (really those two words just feel weird next to each other. I think its the alteration of the asc/ash)
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Offline Cyborg

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Re: Early 2015: Unnamed Terrestrial 4X...
« Reply #43 on: May 26, 2014, 10:46:07 PM »
Is the diplomacy going to involve tech trading?

To be honest I have not gotten into the design of the diplomacy yet, as that's a layer on top of the base actions the game can take.  I've mainly been focused on the base game mechanics and the tech tree.  I have a number of ideas on how diplomacy could work, but I'm not sure which way is best yet, because a lot of that depends on how the prototypes turn out and evolve.  I would be surprised if tech trading were not a part of it, though.


Here is what is always disappointing about diplomacy:


* The deals never feel fair, for the ai or the player
* I have rarely had the experience of the AI ever going to war for me, no matter how much I try
* In a game of conquest, there can be only one, which makes diplomacy doomed from the start


The Last Federation is actually the best diplomacy I have experienced, as it mostly avoids those problems.
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Offline eRe4s3r

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Re: Early 2015: Unnamed Terrestrial 4X...
« Reply #44 on: May 27, 2014, 02:40:31 AM »
For me there is something even worse with Diplomacy... it never feels like you are actually talking to someone, a personality, a alien avatar. It always feel likes we are just talking to an script "press this -> causes this" and not a dynamic dialog between races, with synergies and things the other side might find disgusting, strange or just plain misunderstandings that lead to situations you didn't expect.....

I always hate it when there is a "meter" that checks a number to decide whether you are allowed to do something or not. Diplomacy does not work like that in reality....

TLF does many things right when it comes to that but it also wouldn't really benefit from more immersion in these diplomacy windows we have, as we have so many choices there'd be no way to represent that otherwise. And we really do need to know what does what exactly how much in TLF too... but for a TBS 4X .. we have time, and diplomacy should be something that grows, that causes races to dynamically grow together or apart over time. With various benefits, events and interactions. (Basic things, like "School exchange programs" or "Private property ownership rights" that would slowly lead to a immigration of the other race/people to yours....
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