Author Topic: Beta 0.894 (The Early Experience)  (Read 6771 times)

Offline Aklyon

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Re: Beta 0.894 (The Early Experience)
« Reply #15 on: June 17, 2015, 10:35:43 am »
The percentages are better than 'negative unfilled jobs', though.

Offline kasnavada

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Re: Beta 0.894 (The Early Experience)
« Reply #16 on: June 17, 2015, 11:29:35 am »
The title before was wrong, but the percentage is also confusing for me as it gives me less information than before.

Got a few mantis for those already.

Offline nas1m

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Re: Beta 0.894 (The Early Experience)
« Reply #17 on: June 17, 2015, 01:22:49 pm »
Wonders are much easier to understand though.  One big suggestion: Make these stand out more! A couple of them, it took me awhile to notice, particularly the World Tree, which blended into a small forest it was in.  I didn't notice it for some time.  Since these are useful things, highlighting the hex that they are on would help.  I'll stuff that suggestion into Mantis I think
I am sure one of Chris' particle effects would be able to do the job ;).
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Offline x4000

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Re: Beta 0.894 (The Early Experience)
« Reply #18 on: June 17, 2015, 07:12:00 pm »
Cheers folks!

Some thoughts:

1. Glad things are feeling so much better.

2. Now is an okay time to jump back in, but waiting another 2ish weeks wouldn't be bad, either.  The diplomacy stuff and more passive mobs that you have to aggro before dealing with them are two of the big upcoming things.

3. Also the jobs thing was completely un-intuitive in this version AND past versions mainly because it was trying to show you two things: how many jobs filled and unemployment.

4. I understand the frustration on the percentages, although I'm glad people like the tooltips so much better.  I do understand about the percentage frustration, that's something that I think is a legitimate improvement in some ways, but a step back in others.  I've come up with a better idea than either of the two prior systems, but I'm not sure if I'll have time to get it to work tomorrow or not.

5. With the military, I think that planning is better than micro, and the next version shifts some things toward planning more.  The version after this will -- time permitting -- be adding some of the automation on "counter-attacks" to defend your territory when you don't use the military buildings during direct attacks on your turn.  I'd like to have a nice blend of "easy stuff takes care of itself automatically when you hit end turn," and "certain special cases make you directly intervene first, and then the rest is automated."  Then it gets back to the empire-building roots more, but still with the ability to have combat be something you directly control when needed. 

There's a thread on this general subject started by Shrugging Khan, and I really agree with it on reflection.  He wasn't the first to bring it up, and in the past I didn't agree with this sentiment because there was not such a clear delineation between counter-attacks and aggression and so forth.  Territories and incidents have changed all that, so a framework for that sort of player-sensible AI now makes sense.  Like having FRD mode on your ships on your planets in AI War, for instance: because of the delineation of having your own separate planet space, it makes sense.  In the context of something like an enemy's planet, that just doesn't work.  Anyway, long blob of text.

6. So really, in terms of major changes still coming, I would say:
a. Counter-attacks and the automation that entails.
b. More with the passive mobs.
c. All the stuff in trade and diplomacy is still slowly marching toward a good state.
d. The game start options.

And then everything other than that is pretty much a matter of polish, balance, fixing features that we broke or disabled in past upheavals (there's plenty of that, ranging from ending conditions to things like Work Ethic to stuff like some of the AI construction patterns -- Thoraxians in particular).  Hopefully that will lead to a nice length period (a month?) of time where we can just be beating the heck out of bugs, polish, balance, the GUI, text descriptions, tutorials, etc, etc.

One more note: I'm going to be out Friday through most of Tuesday, so things will be slow or nonexistent in terms of public progress then.  But Cath and Blue are hard at work on a number of art things, and Keith is hard at work on a variety of code things (he will probably wind up going into "plow through bugs" mode for the time while I'm out, which will be nice to catch up on with our general todo list), and of course Pablo is always making his inexorable progress. ;)

Anyway, that's the news. :)
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Offline Shrugging Khan

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Re: Beta 0.894 (The Early Experience)
« Reply #19 on: June 18, 2015, 07:31:08 am »
I've made a mantis issue concerning the Automatisation suggestions. Feel free to shoot them down if you must, but some others and me would really like to see some more stuff in that way  ;D : http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/view.php?id=17300
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Offline kasnavada

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Re: Beta 0.894 (The Early Experience)
« Reply #20 on: June 18, 2015, 07:59:02 am »
Quote
4. I understand the frustration on the percentages, although I'm glad people like the tooltips so much better.  I do understand about the percentage frustration, that's something that I think is a legitimate improvement in some ways, but a step back in others.  I've come up with a better idea than either of the two prior systems, but I'm not sure if I'll have time to get it to work tomorrow or not.

Ahah, I'll be waiting for that part :).

I'm also looking forward to military changes. It does not really feel finished at the moment, but yes... part of it being that diplomacy ain't done yet.

I like the new placement of icons in that part too.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2015, 08:01:34 am by kasnavada »

Offline x4000

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Re: Beta 0.894 (The Early Experience)
« Reply #21 on: June 18, 2015, 02:24:55 pm »
@Shrugging Khan: I think that most of your stuff is actually really reasonable there.  I'm not sure how I feel about completely automating the rebuilding of certain stuff, because it could get to be a very big crowns management problem.  But at the very least making it so you can just double-click it to do it is step 1.  After that I want to experiment (during the polish phase) with a sort of "automation bar" that is kind of like Find And Replace in a lot of ways.  You can do Find Next, Replace on that one, Replace All, etc.  Speaking metaphorically.  Anyway, that's something for several weeks from now, the more core stuff needs to be finished up first.  But for the things you bring up, I'm definitely trying to make that as pain-free as possible in the meantime.

@kasnavada: Sorry that that will wind up being next week with the new HUD stuff, just because of my travel.  But I am looking forward to it, too.
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Offline Shrugging Khan

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Re: Beta 0.894 (The Early Experience)
« Reply #22 on: June 18, 2015, 03:54:03 pm »
Good job on the auto-counterattacks, anyways! I'm always a fan of making the legwork handle itself, so that's a pretty big step in my right direction  :D
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Offline x4000

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Re: Beta 0.894 (The Early Experience)
« Reply #23 on: June 18, 2015, 05:06:28 pm »
Good job on the auto-counterattacks, anyways! I'm always a fan of making the legwork handle itself, so that's a pretty big step in my right direction  :D

I am, too, honestly -- sometimes I might not seem like it, but programmers I think inherently have that desire.  Anyhow, I'm glad that you're enjoying that already! :)
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Offline Shrugging Khan

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Re: Beta 0.894 (The Early Experience)
« Reply #24 on: June 18, 2015, 05:13:11 pm »
Yet another programmer's disease, eh? I'll add it to the list  :D

Anyways, I've mantised some issues that really ruin the game in the current version. I don't know whether they're representative or just bad luck, but  maybe you'll wanna take a look at them before you head off.
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Offline x4000

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Re: Beta 0.894 (The Early Experience)
« Reply #25 on: June 18, 2015, 05:32:29 pm »
Yep, I just got those -- I really appreciate the find on those!  Holy cow if those had been found tomorrow I'd have been excreting masonry.  I really appreciate the quick find and the good saves on those.  Just got a patch out, that was indeed a mess. :)
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Offline Shrugging Khan

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Re: Beta 0.894 (The Early Experience)
« Reply #26 on: June 18, 2015, 05:36:17 pm »
Noice! I was worried there for a moment, but all is well again. Will do a little more testing before going to bed.
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Offline x4000

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Re: Beta 0.894 (The Early Experience)
« Reply #27 on: June 18, 2015, 11:10:32 pm »
Whew, that's a load off for me as well. Thanks again!
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