Arcen Games

General Category => Stars Beyond Reach... This World Is Mine => : x4000 April 23, 2015, 08:52:25 PM

: Beta 0.801 now out.
: x4000 April 23, 2015, 08:52:25 PM
Release notes here: http://arcengames.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Stars_Beyond_Reach_Beta_Release_Notes#Version_0.801

I'm exhausted and have not had time to do a real writeup or even respond to the last thread about the prior release.  I will, I promise!  It may be too late to really matter, but I'll be trying to get to all of that mid next week at the latest.  I have so incredibly much correspondence to catch up on...

Anyway, this one is out, and the release notes speak for themselves, really.  A lot of things should be less confusing now, and a lot of mechanics that were "broken" were actually just not giving you the visual feedback that you needed to at all figure out how they worked.  And there were also some that were outright broken thanks to regressions sometime between the last time we tested them internally and now.

Lots of stuff cleaned up, anyhow.  The between-turn times are running agonizingly slow right now, and I'm not really sure why.  In some cases it's like 16+ seconds between turns in some savegames.  As you find those, please post them to mantis.  Keith has been investigating that, but it takes time, and I imagine that it will be early next week sometime before he really has all that worked out.  I have complete confidence that we can root out that problem, but if I go mucking about in that part of the code I think he'll slit his own throat. ;)

And anyway, I'm not short on things to do, either.  The performance stuff, some of the bigger bugs that remain, a few areas of content stuff that have come up lately, and so forth I want to get implemented before the blueshirts are in.

You can restart steam to force an update.
: Re: Beta 0.801 now out.
: crazyroosterman April 23, 2015, 09:38:38 PM
just looked at the patch notes and holey smokes I forgot there was natural wonders in this also pretty cool stuff all I need is for temperate lakes to get fixed and ill be a happy bun er rooster.
: Re: Beta 0.801 now out.
: mrhanman April 23, 2015, 11:23:41 PM
I'm really happy with how the game is progressing.  Keep up the good work! 
(http://www.emojibase.com/resources/img/emojis/gemoji/1f44d.png)
: Re: Beta 0.801 now out.
: x4000 April 24, 2015, 09:17:23 AM
Thank you!  Still plenty to do, but it's coming along at a pace I'm reasonably happy with.  I am sure looking forward to next week when Keith starts being around fulltime again, though.  Boy he sure did deserve the time off, he had a ton of overtime in Q1 of this year, don't get me wrong.  But there are a lot of things I want to chuck his way (that I know he'd prefer to handle), and the temperate lakes bug and the performance issues are two big ones.
: Re: Beta 0.801 now out.
: topper April 24, 2015, 11:01:15 AM
Hi, playing on this patch and liking it so far.

A couple really early things I feel are missing for the beginning of the game.

1. A couple sentence intro on what is this game and what is the player goal, would be helpful for beta players just starting out. Though maybe you want to see what players do without directions. :P
2. Building descriptions and flavor text (do you need help writing these?!?) To the right of the table of info on each building for after you ctr-click it, it would be great to have the summary of what the building does, a few buildings seem to have it already and it is really helpful. "The hospital increases birth rate by XX" is the key info to display by the building picture since that is the point of why you would place the building and the employment/power/crime/trash bits are details that are fine in the table.

These two would make the early picture a lot clearer for me. But I can only have a first impression once and others might be sidetracked by things unless these two sorted out early.

Anybody else have the same feelings? I have a few other things to Mantis as well, but should I even add these 2 as I am sure they will be sorted out eventually?
: Re: Beta 0.801 now out.
: ptarth April 24, 2015, 11:11:46 AM
The wiki is helpful here. Decide how much you want to be tainted.

http://www.arcengames.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Stars_Beyond_Reach:Beginner%27s_guide
http://www.arcengames.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Stars_Beyond_Reach:Buildings
http://www.arcengames.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Stars_Beyond_Reach:Technology
http://www.arcengames.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Stars_Beyond_Reach:Races
: Re: Beta 0.801 now out.
: x4000 April 24, 2015, 11:13:25 AM
Feel free to add those two, just so that I don't forget.  An intro for the game is definitely something that is planned (of course), but it doesn't hurt to have it in mantis.  Right now that's kind of The Redshirt Experience in that there's no explanations.  The building descriptions and flavor text (also that for techs and resources) is also on my list, but lower down because it doesn't affect gameplay, just clarity.  If folks wish to help out writing those, I certainly won't say no!  Particularly with the functional bits, those don't take me-specifically to do.
: Re: Beta 0.801 now out.
: ptarth April 24, 2015, 11:15:43 AM
The building descriptions and flavor text (also that for techs and resources) is also on my list...If folks wish to help out writing those, I certainly won't say no!  Particularly with the functional bits, those don't take me-specifically to do.

Can we get the format you want them listed in?
Things like Width, formatting codes (color for races for example, etc), active field added to the buildings.xlsx file, ice cream?
: Re: Beta 0.801 now out.
: Draco18s April 24, 2015, 11:38:16 AM
The building descriptions and flavor text (also that for techs and resources) is also on my list, but lower down because it doesn't affect gameplay, just clarity.

Think we could get a file dump at some point?  That is, upload all the various (game object) images to the wiki?
That way, on a particular page, we can say "and this is what it looks like."
: Re: Beta 0.801 now out.
: ptarth April 24, 2015, 11:50:38 AM
The game images are actually all pngs and are in the beta download. We just need to find somebody to upload them and index them.

Not it.

Also, might I offer this for the purpose of developing game text?
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10DrCCKWL-dL5bA7-_L_OFfoQGFN5x3dWpUrHf1BAfK4/edit?usp=sharing
: Re: Beta 0.801 now out.
: x4000 April 24, 2015, 03:56:55 PM
The building descriptions and flavor text (also that for techs and resources) is also on my list...If folks wish to help out writing those, I certainly won't say no!  Particularly with the functional bits, those don't take me-specifically to do.

Can we get the format you want them listed in?
Things like Width, formatting codes (color for races for example, etc), active field added to the buildings.xlsx file, ice cream?

If you want to edit them and test them in-game in realtime to make sure that they fit in the right-hand column (that's the big thing), then you can go into RuntimeData/Language/en/a_bionic.xml

If you search for "MapTileLayerType_" you will see that there is a lot of stuff like "MapTileLayerType_Lander1_Name".  That controls the name of the lander.  If you add a line under that called "MapTileLayerType_Lander1_Desc", then it will gain a description.  See "MapTileLayerType_ShoppingMall_Desc" for an example of one done properly.

Please note: whitespace formatting does matter, and if you get odd tabs and stuff in there (like visual studio wants to add by default), it will look super funky.

As descriptions are created, posting them... somewhere... would be useful.  On the wiki perhaps is easiest, just in a temp topic that I can yank from and put into the xml as I go.  Do remember that anything you put in this xml file will be lost when the game updates!  So make sure and have a backup, or pull the stuff out.

Ah, the "in realtime" testing bit: when you are in the game, after you have edited the xml and hit save, hit Ctrl+F5 (or Ctrl+F4, I use these daily but can never keep them straight in my mind -- my fingers remember but my brain does not) and it will immediately update what you see on the screen.  Useful for making everything fit without having to restart the program a million times.

The main color tags I use:

[#ffe178] - what this tech or building is for
[#ff91f9] - alternate recommendations
[#ffffff]
: Re: Beta 0.801 now out.
: x4000 April 24, 2015, 03:58:21 PM
The game images are actually all pngs and are in the beta download. We just need to find somebody to upload them and index them.

Not it.

Ahahaha.  Nice. :)

What I will have to do is make a way for the game to export them in one piece, though, because the pngs are split up in ways that are not helpful to your cause, and are in the process of being even more split up.

Also, might I offer this for the purpose of developing game text?
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10DrCCKWL-dL5bA7-_L_OFfoQGFN5x3dWpUrHf1BAfK4/edit?usp=sharing

That works!
: Re: Beta 0.801 now out.
: crazyroosterman April 24, 2015, 04:04:18 PM
I probably will help out with the wiki when I've got some more time unless it involves coding and file formatting and so in which case you'll be safer if I just don't.
: Re: Beta 0.801 now out.
: ptarth April 24, 2015, 06:45:09 PM
I finished with the Resource description descriptions. Looking into the building descriptions.

Current Example:

Shopping Malls are a great way to generate crowns as well as provide employment.
If raw crown output is your sole goal, then Banks are your better bet.  However, banks don't employ very many people.
Part of having population growth is providing housing as well as meals and jobs for your new citizens.

Modified Example
Shopping Malls employment(+++)crowns(+)crime(++)
Shopping Malls provide many jobs.
They produce a small amount of crowns.
They produce a large amount of crime.

Population growth requires employment. So if you need a massive amount of jobs quickly, Shopping Malls are the answer.
As your population grows, you can disable your Shopping Malls to transfer your people to more important jobs.
: Re: Beta 0.801 now out.
: Captain Jack April 24, 2015, 06:51:53 PM
"Shopping Malls create many jobs."

"Massive number of jobs quickly"

"you might disable your Shopping Malls"

Sorry.  :D
: Re: Beta 0.801 now out.
: ptarth April 24, 2015, 07:22:39 PM
So is that a grammar, syntax, spelling, coloring, formatting, editing, or other comment?
: Re: Beta 0.801 now out.
: x4000 April 24, 2015, 07:31:32 PM
For the coloring, I'll come up with some adjusted examples that will fit better with our palette, but if that style of text actually fits in there, I'm fine with that for the descriptions.  It's nice and quick of a summary, plus some actual strategic tips.  That's really the goal for me: not to need the wiki, if players are looking into these screens.

Incidentally, every single stat in the detail windows is capable of having its own tooltip.  So if there is something that folks think should be put in there, then that is definitely doable.  Explaining what a possibly-unclear stat does, giving a tip about certain stats, etc.  I don't want to just blanket give tooltips for every stat, because saying obvious things just obscures saying the important things (reduces signal to noise ratio).  But anyway, that's a tool that's already built into the design, but again just not with values assigned most of the time (a few stats have it assigned).
: Re: Beta 0.801 now out.
: Captain Jack April 24, 2015, 08:56:49 PM
So is that a grammar, syntax, spelling, coloring, formatting, editing, or other comment?
Grammar and word flow. I write for a living so the little things jump out sometimes.  8)

Incidentally, every single stat in the detail windows is capable of having its own tooltip.  So if there is something that folks think should be put in there, then that is definitely doable.  Explaining what a possibly-unclear stat does, giving a tip about certain stats, etc.  I don't want to just blanket give tooltips for every stat, because saying obvious things just obscures saying the important things (reduces signal to noise ratio).  But anyway, that's a tool that's already built into the design, but again just not with values assigned most of the time (a few stats have it assigned).
Ooh, interesting. I've got one then, what's debt points, from the international bank?
: Re: Beta 0.801 now out.
: x4000 April 24, 2015, 09:41:06 PM
Yeah, that needs explaining.  Here's the original spec, just quickly copy-pasted from the design doc:

DebtDependencePoints
At the end of each turn, each race that has > 0 DebtDependencePoints will pay you 3% of the number of crowns from their debt dependence, from each of their constructioncontexts. 
-- So if their DebtDependencePoints is 100, they would pay you 3 crowns from each of their constructioncontexts.
-- All of the income from each of those construction contexts goes into your Normal construction context.
-- If there is not enough money in one construction context, then it should pull from another one instead.

IF the race is able to fully pay its debt and interest that turn -- as per above --  then its DebtDependencePoints are reduced by 2.  So in the example above, the race would go down to only 98 debt to you.

On the right-hand panel of the diplomacy screen, the “Debt Points” should be shown for the race.  Hovering over that should tell you how much they are giving you each turn, and how many debt points it goes down every turn (always 2), and how many debt points it goes up every turn (depends on your international banks).


Economically Dominating A Race
Not a misnomer at all.  We’re making these guys so dependent on us that they absolutely can’t attack us without their way of life falling apart due to an economic meltdown.

There is a //KEITH_TODO: GetEconomicDominationPercentage note in the code.

Here’s how that is calculated:
40% of this comes from the DebtDependencePoints of the race.
Let’s start out with 1000 being the target.
30% of this comes from you currently providing at least 30 trade deals (of any sort) to them.
20% of this comes from you currently taking at least 10 trade deals (of any sort) from them.
10% of this comes from you having at least 4 blockades up around them, or enough blockades to cancel out all their other trade deals with all other races, whichever is higher.

Once a race is economically dominated, then a flag should be tripped that should say so.  Then if any of the above conditions become un-met at some point in the future of the game, then the economic domination is not lost.

However, if after you have economically dominated a race, there are several condition that can cause that economic domination flag to un-trip and you have to start again.  They are:
If you are providing them with fewer than 15 trade deals.
I’d like to have a hook for a warning popup when the trade deal count hits 21 or fewer for the first time after economic domination, and another hook for when that flag is lost.
If you are taking fewer than 4 trade deals from them.
I’d like to have a hook for a warning popup when the trade deal count hits 6 or fewer for the first time after economic domination, and another hook for when that flag is lost.
If you ever have fewer than 500 DebtDependencePoints on that race.
I’d like to have a hook for a warning popup when the DebtDependencePoints count hits 750 or fewer for the first time after economic domination, and another hook for when that flag is lost.

Other Consequences Of Being Economically Dominated
All trade deals with any non-player factions are canceled (ones in either direction), and new trade deals with non-player factions cannot be created.
You earn 5% on their debt dependence instead of the usual 3%.
: Re: Beta 0.801 now out.
: ptarth April 24, 2015, 09:45:57 PM
Hey Chris, did you have a chance to look at the descriptions for resources.xls? I wasn't sure if that was something you wanted. And if you wanted any format changing with color specs and what not.

File Attached for convenience.


re: Building text space
45 character wide, 20 lines long
Ctrl+F5 reloads xml in game.
: Re: Beta 0.801 now out.
: x4000 April 24, 2015, 09:58:54 PM
Hey Chris, did you have a chance to look at the descriptions for resources.xls? I wasn't sure if that was something you wanted. And if you wanted any format changing with color specs and what not.

File Attached for convenience.

Ah, I missed that one, sorry.  In this particular case, just for resources mind you, my plan is to make it so that these are just thematic descriptions that are very brief.  The actual explanations of what the resources do will be procedural written.  That way it stays up to date automatically, etc.

With your building descriptions, having things explained in a brief way in terms of their function is useful, because despite the information being right there next to your description, there's also a ton of other information about the building and so the primary function can get buried in that.  Still want to go easy on the specifics there, and get more to the gameplay role and general strategy in the descriptions, though.  In other words, not saying that luxury housing provides luxury housing.  But rather saying why luxury housing matters versus regular housing.  And briefly noting what housing is, I guess, maybe.

Getting across the idea of the key differences, anyway, which is:
1. Dense housing provides the most space, but not the bonuses for certain building types like history museum and opera, etc.  Also less SP.
2. Condos provide a middling amount of space, some bonuses, and more SP.
3. Luxury housing provides the smallest space, but the most bonuses and SP.

So choosing between those housing types is a matter of your goal in terms of what you value most at the time.  The rest of the explicit details can be seen by looking at the mess of stats there, but those key things need to be communicated on each of those buildings so that you know quickly how they figure into the big picture.  Does that make sense?

For resources, there's no real strategic value in a super grand sense.  They all provide adjacency bonuses, and those bonuses are relevant to a wide variety of buildings in a wide variety of contexts.  So the only thing we can really do there is explain what those bonuses are (which can be done automatically by the game itself), and the player then figures out the strategic relevance in their specific game.  then the description itself is a matter of flavor text to say why in the heck salt is used for military stuff (chlorine source!) etc.

With the resources, I have another 46 of those that I need to set up as soon as I can, too.  That's going to take me a while, heh.  But I'm tired of being overrun by Panda Ants and other things of that nature, haha.
: Re: Beta 0.801 now out.
: ptarth April 24, 2015, 10:08:21 PM
The big surprise to me was that there were adjacency bonuses. I had no idea what/when/how they worked until I noticed you'd added the Resources.xls file. From there, knowing which did want took on a certain relevance. The existing tooltip did list what they did (For example, Food for spices. But what that actually meant (adjacency bonus for a type of eatery) was lost to me.

On another note, did you want flavor text in the building descriptions as well? If so, serious, funny, or a mix?
: Re: Beta 0.801 now out.
: crazyroosterman April 25, 2015, 07:59:41 PM
46 resource are going to be added?...sweeet!.