Reasons for International Kerfuffles

[ptarth]

Chris is looking for hilarious, yet valid, reasons for Kerfuffles (i.e., wars between the races). His explaination is right below, in short, make them valid reasons, being funny is a bonus.

Below is a compiled list of the ideas presented so far in the thread.

General

• Your population is too large.
• Your income is too high.
• You pollute too much.
• Your territory is too large.
• You are making the world too inhospitable to us:Temperature
• You are making the world too inhospitable to us:Terraforming
• You are causing too much planetary rage.
• We just hate you.
• You terrify us.
• You are too weak.
• Our friends hate you.
• Someone we want to be friends with hates you.
• You are too close to us.
• We don't like volcanoes.
• The ratio of Luxury & Spacious housing to dense & bunker housing is too low.
• You won't trade us X Market Items.
• You won't trade us X resource.
• You are trading too much with OtherRace.
• You are producing too much of MarketItemType X.
• Your Broadcasting is annoying us.
• You have too many airships.
• Your diplomat did something.

Acutians
Interests: Money

• Your income is too high.
• You sell too many things to others, we want your trade balance.
• You have too many resources that we want.

Andors
Interests: Peace

• You have too many weapons.

Boarines
Interests: Isolation

• You are trying to be too friendly.
• You expanding in our direction.

Burlust
Interests: Killing

• It's System.Clock.Day. (E.g., It's Tuesday.)
• Today's date is a prime number.

Evuck
Interests: Paranoia

• You were thinking bad thoughts about us.
• You are trying to be too friendly.
• You are expanding in our direction.
• You are too close.

Fenyn
Interests: Environment

• Not enoough terraforming
• You pollute too much.
• You are killing too many native lifeforms.

Krolin
Interests: World Domination

• Too many of your people are idle.
• Too many of your people live in Luxury housing.

Neinzul
Interests:

Peltians
Interests: Barn Dancing

• Your Philosophy is too dark.
• You are less scary than OtherRace.
• You are too mean to OtherRaces.
• Too many of your people are unemployed.
• Too many of your people are employed in Factories.
• You need more farms and parks.

Skylaxians
Interests: Science & Honor

• You have killed OtherRace too much.
• OtherRace is nearly extinct.
• You committed an act of aggression.
• You are too untrust worthy.
• You have stolen/spied too much.

Spire
Interests: You wouldn't understand.

• They are drawing a geometric figure of some sort, and you are in the way.

Thoraxian
Interests: Queen's Choice

• Your race smells too delicious today.
• Planet Rage is too high.
• You are blocking the Queen's view of the Stars.

Yali
Interests: Prophetizing

• You pollute too much.
• You are in our oceans taking our resources/fish.
• You are destroying our oceans.
• You are contaminating our culture with your Market Items.

Zenith
Interests:

• You have excess organic components (population).

[x4000]

Key note!  Tying these to actual game mechanics is good, and these don't all have to be funny.  Aka, this isn't just fluff flavor text.  In some cases we have varieties of "just because" for races like the Burlusts, sure.  But that's just because they are inherently warlike and so having a "reason" as a pretext is inherently funny.

But for other races, there should be some sort of valid reasoning, from their point of view.  Aka, it's a big butterfly effect system, sure, but it's still based on cause and effect.  You start cooling the planet too much, the Burlusts focus on you in particular.  Anyone who gets too near the Evucks gets some diseases in the eye.  Etc.

[TheVampire100]

Acutians: We need money!
Skylaxians: Don't be so mean to this race!
Yali: Stop throwing your trash in our home!

Somethign like this? I don't really get what you want from us...

Edit: Okay, that makes more sense now. Uhm, Yali I would say they don't like when you put trash/pillution into the ocean. Or maybe if you put harvestors/fisheries there? Since they live int here they could fear to get poisned/sick from the pollution.

Skylaxians are typical honorable. they start only a fight if they are provoked or see that another, friendly race is provoked (I don't know how diplomacy is handled between AI races), so if two races fight, the Skylaxians attack the one that started the war or the one that is stronger (for a balance).

Acutians are greedy and the one and only reason is that they can make profit from it, meaning if another race has x amounts of resource spots they attack that race so they can get these spots.

[x4000]

I'm not really in dire need of suggestions, so it's not really an urgent sort of thing.  You guys can take a look at the list of ones I come up with once I finish getting more of those prepped and that may help. 

In terms of the Acutians, them needing money is pretty solid, as would be them attacking whoever is wealthiest out of jealousy.

The Skylaxians attacking others because of various forms of that race being dishonorable are definitely on the list, but there are a variety of kinds of that to think of.

The Yali being sensitive to people messing with the oceans are definitely a thing.  Pollution drifting over them would be one good manner of that.  Both the Yali and the Burlusts would probably get mad at things getting too cold.


I definitely can't use every idea that folks will come up with, because some are super hard to implement or tie to game mechanics, but in general I really like the brainstorming process and seeing what people other than myself come up with.  Like I said, that might be easier once you have more of a selection of ones from me to actually look at.

[TheVampire100]

Okay, some other (I will keep this as short as possible).
Most of this stuff is obvious anyway and it seems that you've already planned some, so if it fits your preparations it even better.

Fenyn: Just like Yali, but for land (don't mess with Nature).

Thoraxian: Hand of planet, if planet rage is high, they come after you.

Krolin: Ugh, I still don't get the persoanlity of this race, I've read somewere (in the wiki I think) that they are very possessive but I'm not sure if this is canon. Maybe they will attack everything that's bigger than themselves?

Andors: No reason whatsoever to start a war. Of course besides being attacked by others.

Evucks: Uhm... Maybe when they feel threatened but what can this actually mean? Getting too close to them? Having military buildings near them? Hard to think of something.

Boarines: Solitary, so if you build too close to them, they will attack. ("Get off my lawn!")

Peltians: Also hard to think about. I cannot imagine this cute, cuddly being picking of a fight. On the other hand they have no problem in bombing themself to Nirvana, soooo there will be reasons.


I guess I'm already out of ideas. I can hardly think why a single race would start war outside of the typical reasons (another race started it. The yfeel threatened by their presence. They need wealth).

But I think I have a single trump card in my hand. Since diseases can be transferred between races inbattle, why not making vaccines also transferable? To make it more clear. Race A has disease X. Race B has alreay the vaccine to disease X. Race A wants that vaccine and starts a war with race B because it wants this vaccine 8instead of trading for it). Making vaccines capturable 8also for the player), would give you new strategic oppoturnities, especially since some vaccines take ages to research and every turn you research costs you citizens (reducing further the research speed of that vaccine). Raiding another race might help you in getting the vaccine faster.

[topper]

pseudo edit, I got ninja'ed a little   

These  ideas seem like they have a lot of potential. What will be the trigger for them and will it be transparent to the player?
EU4 uses a Mean Time To Happen MTTH method where there are multiple triggers that modify the chance of an event occuring each month. The triggers are only known if you look at the game files though. Will the player know if they are marching towards a conflict or is it all random driven?

Here are a few ideas on a whim that would be triggered by specific game conditions:

Boarines:
-You violated my personal space / Restore the isolation buffer (too many buildings within a certain distance of theirs, stops if you remove/destroy them)

Skylaxians:
-Tech superiority (increasingly offended once a certain tech level is reached or a certain amount of science is being gained per turn. War goal is to reduce science rate gain?)

Neinzul:
-Wasting time / Mid-life crisis (A certain amount of turns has passed and they get antsy, they have short lives!)

Zenith:
-Staff outsourcing (You have large unemployment, Zenith come along and want some of your extra population. This one could be used as either a pile-on mechanic, or a relief from unemployment)

Andors:
-SALT (start treaty talks to limit military deployment if the player reaches a certain strength)

[tbrass]

Boarines - temperature / pollution increase
Boarines - you built an embassy before we had high enough relations

Burlust - anything that lowers relations

I really like the idea of vaccine trading.

[TheVampire100]

I think I will set up a mantis suggestion because of the vaccines. This really fits into a niche the game should have. It was soemthing in TLF, so why not here?

[crazyroosterman]

pseudo edit, I got ninja'ed a little   

These  ideas seem like they have a lot of potential. What will be the trigger for them and will it be transparent to the player?
EU4 uses a Mean Time To Happen MTTH method where there are multiple triggers that modify the chance of an event occuring each month. The triggers are only known if you look at the game files though. Will the player know if they are marching towards a conflict or is it all random driven?

Here are a few ideas on a whim that would be triggered by specific game conditions:

Skylaxians:
-Tech superiority (increasingly offended once a certain tech level is reached or a certain amount of science is being gained per turn. War goal is to reduce science rate gain?)
that doesn't really suit the skylaxians to me that seems more of an evuk thing also ideas from my end well how about peltians gets angry with you if your people are unemployed or/and their needs are not being catered to.(because the peltians are communistic and communistic states tend to be very socialistic) not 100 percent sure how you'd implement that really as an actual game mechanic though ill edit this if a think of more ideas.

[MaskityMask]

@Vampire: Krolin are facists. You know, warlike and controlling of their citizens. Uber fascists considering how many "indoctrinators" they build :p

Anyhoo reasons for war/diplomatic incidences? I know you just said they don't have to be funny, but I think they can still be:

Burlust: They shutdown the chocolate factory! We demand more sweet sweet candy! (aka market based reasons, if based on TLF likes and dislikes even better. Could be also something like "Magazines you import really offend us" or "Philosophy you have is crappy")

Evucks: They are CLEARLY planning for something... We have to strike first(evucs are rather basic <_< I guess they could also be annoyed by clear stupidity of other races, think they are messing with environment because of conspiracy against them or think they are behind the monster attacks. So I guess they could attack if they get enough attacked by monsters or you terraform a lot around them or if you do something to radically change temperature. Could be also something like wind blows your pollution to their cities and they think you are doing it on purpose to poison them.)

Peltians: These guys are scary! And history has shown that we always get blown up no matter how much we beg so clearly its time to blow up them first!(yeah peltians probably wouldn't start wars :p But they are type to do pre-emptive strikes at least judging from TLF so... Yeah. They could be annoyed with your pollution ruining their crops too.)

Skylaxians: Your ambassador was really rude, prepare to die(aka honorrrrrrr Skylaxians probably shouldn't start much wars, but in my experience from TLF they are kinda dicks xD So I think there could be few funny and non funny "HONOR" related war reasons outside of "Your people are dishonorably bullying this other races, you already beat them so stop trying to destroy them" type stuff)

Andor: Mwhaha our leader is only evil andor ever(yeah no, not gonna see andor wars. Maybe andor disputes about how you should be nicer and other party getting annoyed at them and causing war but not otherwise. Could also be involving andor parliament, but I think it was stated leadership doesn't change during this game? Anyway, I guess andor could also be so meddlesome that they sometimes accidentally cause other races to go war with each other due to trying to hold tea party or something between them)

Boarines: We don't have a isolation shield, so we have to get rid of you for being so close D:< (yeah can't really think of anything else for boarines, they are also basic. Maybe desperate demanding for cure when they are suffering from disease from incompatible temperature? xP)

Zenith: Its volcano apocalypse time! (not really seeing these guys doing wars since they don't spread much(which makes sense, growing large bodies like that probably can't be done fast) so its hard to think valid reason for them :p Maybe something that personally offends them? Maybe they are feeling really feverish due to disease and start to consider other races bacteria? xP Them misunderstanding other races demolishing their buildings and thinking they are helping other "races" by killing bacteria in their body?)

Spire: Your tv shows keep showing up in our radio, its really annoying and confusing, prepare to die (:p Seriously hard to think valid reason for these guys since they are the "We are so advanced we don't need to take care of you since you are so inferior" personality wise. Like zenith they also don't mind environment changes much since they can always survive...)

Acutians: Wind blows in such way that war is most profitable business right now./ We have acquited your resources, now to get rid of you.(aka they want resources nodes you have for themselves)/Peltian leg warmers are good in burlust market right now./All your base are belong to us make your time (Yeah acutians are easy. Capitalism/free market/greed stuff is easy inspiration for various ideas)

Yali: We are so enlightened, you so stupid, we make war now to make you smarter/Its really cramped here in this lake, so we wanna flood world to get more space, sorry you land dwellers(hard to think good or funny reason for race that thinks they are so enlightened and since pollution was already taken)

Krolin: Heil Krolin, Krolin world domination time! Lobster power!(fascists governments are rather self expository why they'd go to war <_<; )

Fenyn: Poor giant worms you keep killing for self protection, time to die!/Your terraforming doesn't involve trees hence it offends us!/Your meat market is too high!/you have too many vegetarians, thats horrific!/poor wildlife critters shouldn't live in terrarium domes!(deadly hippies is also bit too easy. )

Thoraxians: "We ignored you lesser beings when tremors on surface disturbed our hives, we ignored your annoying attempts at communication, but you have invoked our wrath. Our numbers will darken your cities, consuming you insects. Know that you brought this on yourself with your actions. Prepare for your extinction, we will erase all interspecies-thoraxian porn from your servers and our minds."

(...What? Declaring genocide over being offended by gross porn is completely valid reason(and yes I'm still stuck on how funny it is that in TLF you can make burlust like thoraxians by producing adult program channels for thoraxians) :p Its really hard to come up to funny or good reasons for bug war especially when they are supposed to be alien and apathetic to normal ethics. I think it'd be funny if queen would get talkative super villain speeches for no matter how minor reason they would decide to go for war with you xP

Either way, I think their reasons for war should be notably different from other races to highlight the part they don't really care and are alien. Maybe even something like "Thoraxians suddenly attack you without warning and suddenly stop attacking, people are scared" or "thoraxians ate a family in a restaurant and then complained it wasn't tasty". Or something similar to how bugs in ender's game didn't attack humans because they were hostile but because they didn't realize humans were individuals)

Neinzul: Umm.. Only thing that I can think of is something like Neinzul Preservation Wardens from AI War, aka they are fearing you will be exhausting all resources and their children will suffer for that so they want to stop you from doing that.

Anyway, time for race generic reasons:

Diplomatic incidences! Like "(x) and (y) ambassadors were caught in scandalicious relationship affair." or "Your ambassador learned to never play poker with acutians" or something. These could be funny, they could be tied to races, they could be generic, lot of potential on how to accidentally offend other races.

If spies and thieves are kept, could also be shenanigans on spy/thief failures and how they got caught trying to do something funny

Market reasons! Like I said earlier, for stuff like since burlust likes sweet a lot, they want all of them or think you aren't producing enough for their tastes. Or even stuff like evucs and burlust going to war because evucs hate sweets.

Anyway, sorry if these are too crappy or try too hard to be funny, I'm not really funny person :p I can write more normal ones if you give more feedback on what type of stuff you want, but I understand if you don't want my suggestions since I go for over the top easily and I do realize most of these are fluff reasons and not gameplay xD Of course it was just pointed out you don't need suggestions, but giving them is fun anyway, hence why I keep writing these walls of text of bad ideas xP

[Captain Jack]

I don't have a full list, but some ideas did occur off the top of my head.

Fenyn: "Terminator seeds." This is based on real world bio-engineering. Some food companies genetically engineer crops that DO NOT produce viable seeds, in order to prevent rival companies and hobby gardeners from growing their own high-yield crops. The plants still produce pollen though, which can transfer the seed-retarding property to viable plants. Imagine just how angry the Fenyn would be if huge swaths of their plants just stopped producing live seeds. Conditions: be upwind of Fenyn city, possess a certain number of (large) farms and high crown production (representing businesses interested in controlling food-related intellectual property).

Peltians: Population pressure. They breed fast. They should sprawl in the game. And if you cannot convince them of your willingness to salt the earth with fluffy corpses, they could decide to expand right over you. This would require massive food surpluses on their part. Their aggression can be tamed by lowering their population ceiling. I'm put in the mind of Tuf Voyaging, if anyone's every read that.

[crazyroosterman]

I haven't come up with any more ideas that haven't already said but I just wanted to say that I'm super exited that races(when this super patch in a couple 100 hundred years(disclaimer I'm joking Chris can take as he long as he sees fit for this super patch) are going to be given actual reasons to attack me rather than (me) hello their I'm very happy to meet you! (them) KILL HIM!.

[Zebeast46]

I came up with an idea I thought would be fun.

If you are playing as the communist peltians than at one point in the game the Capitalist Acutians and the Fascist Krolin will declare war on you at the same time because they dont like your ideaologies as a communist.

[crazyroosterman]

I actually had a bit of a weird idea regarding the burlusts what if the burlusts had a special win condition which was to make to make literally everybody be at war with each and perhaps even be able to build the hate virus as a wonder to help with that?.

[tbrass]

Acutians We shall not allow outside agitators to interfere with our management practices. (You are trading with Peltians; random if trading philosophy)

Peltians You bourgeoisie, capitalist pigs have exploited the proletariat for far too long. Workers of the world unite! (income exceeds X, or income exceeds X for Y turns)

Skylaxians You are without honor. (you have attacked someone without causa belli)